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Obama opens Memorials for illegals, but arrests vets

Government Shut Down 2013 113th Congress Veterans

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#21 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

Quote

First of all, they didn't open it up for illegals, they opened it for a rally to try to convince "Congress to adopt an immigration law that would allow the nation's 12 million undocumented immigrants the ability to apply for U.S. citizenship".

Interesting, they didn't open it for illegal immigrants only for undocumented immigrants.

What is the difference between:
illegals and undocumented immigrants

#22 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Quote

First of all, they didn't open it up for illegals, they opened it for a rally to try to convince "Congress to adopt an immigration law that would allow the nation's 12 million undocumented immigrants the ability to apply for U.S. citizenship".

Interesting, they didn't open it for illegal immigrants only for undocumented immigrants.

What is the difference between:
illegals and undocumented immigrants

there is no difference. Both are criminals. It's just that the PC crowd feels that changing the name somehow makes it alright for people to break our laws and come here illegally.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#23 Cait

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Mmmmm - Let's see, as long as Obama REFUSES to negotiate Obamacare, the government will be “shut down”.

Lie #1.  Do you know how ludicrous this meme sounds?  Especially when there is video of pleased as punch Republicans smiling and laughing the day of the shut down.  I hear there were reports of booze flowing pretty liberally [ha--get it] the day of the shut down.  

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to pass the CR, the government will be stay shut down.  Look, the House gave it a shot.  They tried to make ACA part of the negotiation.  They failed.  Why did they fail?  Because ACA has nothing to do with the CR.  If you and your friends want to repeal the ACA, then win some elections.  Let that sink in.. "Win some elections".  Because that is how laws are repealed.  What you don't do [if you know, you want to win some elections one day] is shut down the government because you don't have the votes to repeal a law you hate.  Which is what this amounts to.  The GOOP does not have the votes to repeal it, and definitely don't have the votes to override a veto, so you all came up with this cockamamie idea.

You float this idea out there, and are shocked when Democrats won't play along with your make-believe negotiation on ACA.  Then in true GOP fashion, you turn the narrative around and suddenly it is the president who won't negotiate on your make-believe issue of de-funding ACA.  

Quote

So that would be the Democrats shutting down the government since the House of Representatives passed a bill to keep the massive budget on target and wanted to negotiate Obamacare.  But Noooooooo, Democrats shut it down.

Rinse and repeat, but each time with more gusto!!  The House did not pass a clean CR or it would have sailed through the Senate and the president would have happily signed it.  But, I do love watching people like you change their tune so abruptly.  A few months ago, you guys were all about the "let's shut down the government unless they de-fund ACA".  And the House did exactly that.  They shut down the government.  Like a child holding his breath until he gets his way, the House Republicans dug in their heels and shut the government down.  Over what?  Was it some spending in the actual CR?  No.  It was the ACA, and it has its own funding.  Shutting down the government didn't do a damn thing to stop ACA, so I have to ask myself, how did you think this was going to turn out?

Now of course, since the GOP's poll numbers are in the toilet, the tune is, "We're trying so hard to give the President what he wants, but he won't talk to us".  Wha wha wha. "We never wanted this shut down.  It's the Democrats.  They are doing this.  Not us.  We never wanted this".

Except you did.  

And. if it is such a good cause, then own it.  Own it all the way.  Be the heroes America has been waiting for.  No, the GOP wanted it and they did it, they just didn't want to get blamed for it.  

Quote

I just got back from Nevada and every Park Ranger- repeatedly said Obama and Reid shut down the National Parks and are to blame. They offered the information and much more,  we didn't have to ask.

Well, of course Obama is the one responsible for sending the order to shut the doors [so to speak].  The Executive Branch is the arm of the government that runs all these agencies.  The order would have to come from him.  But, he sent that order because the CR wasn't passed to run these parts of the government.  You do get that right?  The Executive Branch manages all the agencies.  The House appropriates the funds to run the agencies.  See how that works?!  So, if the House doesn't appropriate the money, the Executive Branch has to close down until funds are available.  Or at least the parts that are part of discretionary spending.  Which is what the CR is=discretionary spending.  It's really as simple as that.

I have to ask.  What did you think was going to happen when the GOP was screaming on every Sunday talk show they could book "We won't pass a CR unless it de-funds ACA"? What did "shut down" mean to you?  Did it mean anything to you, because it sure has consequences.  You guys were all smiles and photo ops when the deadline came and went, but now not so much.  Well, isn't this exactly what you expected?  Because the rest of us saw it coming.  You don't fund the government and stuff closes down.  Why?  Because there is no money to pay employees for starters.  600,000 federal workers out of jobs, and you're complaining about a park being closed and blame Obama.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#24 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

View PostDev F, on 14 October 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Quote

So the Democrats refused to make a massive concession in exchange for something that both sides wanted, while the Republicans conceded nothing.
17 changes have been made to the ACA law but now it can't be negotiated..Right!
I didn't say it can't be negotiated, I said it isn't being negotiated. If the Republicans wanted to, say, agree to lift the sequester or raise more revenues in exchange for adjustments to the ACA, that would be a perfectly decent negotiation tack. But what they're doing instead is demanding that the Democrats gut the ACA in exchange for nothing or they'll blow up the economy.

You are correct, Obamacare isn't being negotiated.
The House sent a Obamacare counter proposal and that would have delayed the health law’s individual mandate by a year. Why can't the people get the same delay as businesses.
The Senate shut it down, NO negotiations on Obamacare PERIOD!

The Republicans are not going to give more money to the ACA law which has all ready cost more than 3 times it's projected cost.

#25 Elara

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 14 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Quote

First of all, they didn't open it up for illegals, they opened it for a rally to try to convince "Congress to adopt an immigration law that would allow the nation's 12 million undocumented immigrants the ability to apply for U.S. citizenship".

Interesting, they didn't open it for illegal immigrants only for undocumented immigrants.

What is the difference between:
illegals and undocumented immigrants

there is no difference. Both are criminals. It's just that the PC crowd feels that changing the name somehow makes it alright for people to break our laws and come here illegally.

Okay, LoTS. Listen to me, please. This was a rally, and the people at the rally were American citizens, and/or legals trying to convince "Congress to adopt an immigration law that would allow the nation's 12 million undocumented immigrants the ability to apply for U.S. citizenship".
Think about it, what illegal is going to go out and publicly declare themselves an illegal? They would be arrested immediately and deported. There were members of Congress at this rally, they may all be a bit nuts, but they are not stupid enough to be at a rally filled with illegals and do nothing.

I am not part of a so-called PC crowd changing a name. And honestly? I am finding it insulting that you are accusing me of this.
El
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#26 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 14 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Quote

First of all, they didn't open it up for illegals, they opened it for a rally to try to convince "Congress to adopt an immigration law that would allow the nation's 12 million undocumented immigrants the ability to apply for U.S. citizenship".

Interesting, they didn't open it for illegal immigrants only for undocumented immigrants.

What is the difference between:
illegals and undocumented immigrants

there is no difference. Both are criminals. It's just that the PC crowd feels that changing the name somehow makes it alright for people to break our laws and come here illegally.

That has always been my understanding..  All these people broke our laws and should be been arrested.

#27 Balderdash

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Quote

You better pray that Obama doesn't cave
He has to cave, he can't sit there and do nothing - he is the president who
should be running the country.  Instead of sitting there as a spoiled boy who is not getting
his way.

ACA is a law.  ACA is Constitutional.  Who is spoiled!?  What happens if in the future the Dems own the House, will it be ok with you if they blow up the country to get their way?  Probably not, right.  What the House is doing is wrong for everyone including Republicans.


Quote

Whoa, well I guess that nails that down.  It's b*llsh*t!

Quote

Wasn't it fun when the Park Rangers turned on their flashing lights and chased us down,
on Lake Mead Blvd.  Remember what the Rangers
said?  Of course you don't, you weren't there but you do know it was bullpoo...

Park Rangers can say anything it doesn't make it true.  I do know that what they said is bullpoo.  I'm sure that what you are relaying is
what you heard, there are plenty of screeching Republicans or Tea Baggers out there.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#28 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:50 PM

This is where I stopped reading:

Quote

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to pass the CR,

Translates to:

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to  pass along a BLANK CHECK,
the government will remain closed.

#29 Cait

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:


The Republicans are not going to give more money to the ACA law which has all ready cost more than 3 times it's projected cost.

The Republicans don't have to "give" any money to ACA.  It has its own funding stream.  That is why this tactic was so implausible in the first place.  ACA was NOT even part of the CR.  It never was part of the CR.  ACA is NOT discretionary spending [well, OK some minor administrative costs are discretionary], it is mandatory spending.  You might as well be asking for the President to de-fund Social Security or Medicare.  All of those are mandatory spending too, and all have their own funding source.

And, do you have any source on the 3X more expensive claim or are you just throwing that out there?

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#30 Dev F

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The Republicans are not going to give more money to the ACA law which has all ready cost more than 3 times it's projected cost.
You realize that at no point in this whole shutdown kerfuffle did anyone ask the Republicans to give more money to Obamacare, right?

And I'm still waiting for you to explain why the Democrats should negotiate any changes to the ACA whatsoever in exchange for zero concessions on the Republicans' part.

Edited by Dev F, 14 October 2013 - 12:56 PM.


#31 Cait

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

This is where I stopped reading:

Quote

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to pass the CR,

Translates to:

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to  pass along a BLANK CHECK,
the government will remain closed.

Beyond talking points, you have absolutely no understanding of this, do you?

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#32 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostCait, on 14 October 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

This is where I stopped reading:

Quote

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to pass the CR,

Translates to:

The truth is, as long as the House refuses to  pass along a BLANK CHECK,
the government will remain closed.

Beyond talking points, you have absolutely no understanding of this, do you?

Why yes I do but honestly I can't be bothered with you after what happened last time,  go type a book to someone who cares

#33 NeuralClone

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why yes I do but honestly I can't be bothered with you after what happened last time,  go type a book to someone who cares
In other words, you can't be bothered to read anything that refutes anything you say or anything that resembles reality. Got it.
"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#34 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostNeuralClone, on 14 October 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why yes I do but honestly I can't be bothered with you after what happened last time,  go type a book to someone who cares
In other words, you can't be bothered to read anything that refutes anything you say or anything that resembles reality. Got it.

Are you aware of what happened last time?

#35 NeuralClone

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Are you aware of what happened last time?
Should I be? What matters to me is what's happening right now and right now you're taking part in a discussion that you aren't even reading while trying to take some sort of high ground. You can't win a debate or argument by putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same things over and over again while ignoring facts and well-reasoned counterpoints.
"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#36 Omega

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

You're on a discussion board, where you have no interest in discussing. Then why on earth do you come here? Just to provoke a response?

#37 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostBalderdash, on 14 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:


ACA is a law.  ACA is Constitutional.  Who is spoiled!?  What happens if in the future the Dems own the House, will it be ok with you if they blow up the country to get their way?  Probably not, right.  What the House is doing is wrong for everyone including Republicans.

It IS the law. It IS Constitutional. What ISN'T the Law is the President exempting Big Business, the unions, and Congress. What ISN'T Constitutional is creating a "class" of people who are exempt, because it is in the President's political interest, while the rest of America doesn't get the same exemptions.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#38 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:43 PM

THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE ACA, LoTS.

No matter how many times you say this, it is STILL not true.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#39 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

I know it's a lot of words and all, and it's more fun to get bent out of shape about outrageous-sounding b*llsh*t, but here:

http://www.factcheck...amacare-claims/

Edited by Spectacles, 14 October 2013 - 01:49 PM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#40 Cait

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why yes I do but honestly I can't be bothered with you after what happened last time,  go type a book to someone who cares

So, it's going to be my fault that you can't or won't actually engage in the discussion.  It's MY fault you can't be bothered to respond with the sure fire winner response that will decimate any and all of our responses.  It's all my fault.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




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