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Obama opens Memorials for illegals, but arrests vets

Government Shut Down 2013 113th Congress Veterans

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#41 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

More words!

http://www.latimes.c...0,6344095.story
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#42 Tricia

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

Not exempt on Big Business

only delayed by one year.

Congress...not exempt but I explained that already in another thread.

can provide links but I've already done so once.

Edited by Tricia, 14 October 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#43 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

^Yep. Many times. Doesn't matter. Facts be damned! There's a lie that folks can get all apoplectic about!

:ranting:
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#44 Balderdash

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:35 PM

Did anybody check out the website where this load of crap came from?  The link that LotS posted: http://www.nowtheend...m/blog/?p=15312

Holy batshit Batman!  :shrug:

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#45 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:40 PM

^I did. That's when I decided to see if those vets were really being arrested in DC (by Obama, of course) for trespassing at memorials along the mall.

They weren't. It's a lie. So I posted a new thread on it in hopes that the detail would not get lost.

Edited by Spectacles, 14 October 2013 - 02:41 PM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#46 NeuralClone

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 14 October 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

So I posted a new thread on it in hopes that the detail would not get lost.
Oh, it will. :tumbleweed2:
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#47 Nonny

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:27 PM

Meanwhile, in the latest treasonous, seditionist attempt to destroy our government, economy, and way of life, the GOP change the rules; House Republicans Changed The Rules So A Majority Vote Couldn't Stop The Government Shutdown
http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular

Quote

In its effort to extract concessions from Democrats in exchange for opening the government, the GOP has faced a fundamental strategic obstacle: They don't have the votes. A majority of the members of the House have gone on record saying that if they were given the opportunity to vote, they would support what's known as a "clean" continuing resolution to fund the government.
So House Republican leaders made sure no such vote could happen.
In the hours working up to the government shutdown on Sept. 30, Republican members of the House Rules Committee were developing a strategy to keep a clean CR off the floor, guaranteeing the government would remain shut down.
Though at least 28 House Republicans have publicly said they would support a clean CR if it were brought to the floor -- enough votes for the government to reopen when combined with Democratic support -- a House rule passed just before the shutdown essentially prevents that vote from taking place.
During a floor speech on Saturday, Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) drew attention to the quietly passed rule when he attempted to present a motion to accept the Senate's clean continuing resolution and reopen the government.
Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), presiding over the chamber, told Van Hollen that the rule he was asking to use had been "altered" and he did not have the privilege of bringing that vote to the floor. In the ensuing back and forth, Chaffetz said the recently passed House Resolution 368 trumped the standing rules. Where any member of the House previously could have brought the clean resolution to the floor under House Rule 22, House Resolution 368 -- passed on the eve of the shutdown -- gave that right exclusively to the House majority leader, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia.....


Dirty tricks abound with this lot.
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#48 Nonny

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostBalderdash, on 14 October 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Did anybody check out the website where this load of crap came from?  The link that LotS posted: http://www.nowtheend...m/blog/?p=15312

Holy batshit Batman!  :shrug:

Yeah, I did.  Post#11, this thread:

View PostNonny, on 14 October 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Oh for crying out loud, it's an end of times site!  Of course it's nothing but lies.   :rolleyes:   Those morons want to bring about the end of the world so they can sit in their weird, raging deity's lap and laugh while he points out the the rest of us suffering.  They obsess about Israel, they cause as much misery in the Middle East as they can, all because of their pathetic, selfish belief about their ridiculously elevated place in their made up universe.

Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#49 Balderdash

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:20 PM

^^^

Ah, I missed that one.  Loony toons...

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#50 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:02 PM

Quote

And I'm still waiting for you to explain why the Democrats should negotiate any changes to the ACA whatsoever in exchange for zero concessions on the Republicans' part.

I missed Democrats counter proposals, what was on the table?
What exactly did Democrats want from the Republicans' in exchange for changes in the ACA?


#51 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostNeuralClone, on 14 October 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Are you aware of what happened last time?
Should I be? What matters to me is what's happening right now and right now you're taking part in a discussion that you aren't even reading while trying to take some sort of high ground. You can't win a debate or argument by putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same things over and over again while ignoring facts and well-reasoned counterpoints.

Where did you get the idea that I'm not reading this thread?

#52 Dev F

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:46 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I missed Democrats counter proposals, what was on the table?
What exactly did Democrats want from the Republicans' in exchange for changes in the ACA?
I believe the standard counterproposal to "Why don't you agree to unwind your most significant legislative accomplishment of the past decade in exchange for nothing?" is "Go f**k yourself." If the Republicans really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they would've brought some potential concessions to the table to begin with. That's been my point all along -- if the Republicans put nothing on the table but "We'll agree not to destroy the economy," they're not making deals, they're taking hostages.

And if it wasn't really about taking hostages, if the Republicans really just wanted the Democrats to come to the table and deal, then, well . . . why did they shut down the government and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling in the first place? Why not pass a clean budget and debt ceiling bill and then trade actual concessions with the Dems to their hearts' content?

#53 NeuralClone

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Where did you get the idea that I'm not reading this thread?
From your own posts. You even said, "I stopped reading after..." Even if you hadn't said that, it wouldn't have taken much for me to come to the conclusion I came to. You've repeatedly ignored well-reasoned posts and counterpoints in favor of saying the same few things that aren't based on actual facts. To me that suggests you aren't actually interested in having a discussion.

Edited by NeuralClone, 14 October 2013 - 06:55 PM.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
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#54 Spectacles

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

Just checking: is everyone clear that the title of this thread is made up of two untruths? Obama didn't arrest vets who visited memorials at the mall and he did not open up the mall to a sea of "illegals."

We all know this now, right?
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#55 Balderdash

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 14 October 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Just checking: is everyone clear that the title of this thread is made up of two untruths? Obama didn't arrest vets who visited memorials at the mall and he did not open up the mall to a sea of "illegals."

We all know this now, right?

LOL  I know it, I'm pretty sure that most know whether they admit it or not.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#56 Dev F

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

Also, two hundred people were in fact arrested at the immigration protest, including several House Democrats.

#57 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostDev F, on 14 October 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I missed Democrats counter proposals, what was on the table?
What exactly did Democrats want from the Republicans' in exchange for changes in the ACA?
I believe the standard counterproposal to "Why don't you agree to unwind your most significant legislative accomplishment of the past decade in exchange for nothing?" is "Go f**k yourself." If the Republicans really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they would've brought some potential concessions to the table to begin with. That's been my point all along -- if the Republicans put nothing on the table but "We'll agree not to destroy the economy," they're not making deals, they're taking hostages.

And if it wasn't really about taking hostages, if the Republicans really just wanted the Democrats to come to the table and deal, then, well . . . why did they shut down the government and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling in the first place? Why not pass a clean budget and debt ceiling bill and then trade actual concessions with the Dems to their hearts' content?

Republicans put one year delay for individuals on the table, which is fair considering all of these
companies received a one year delay? What makes companies so deserving and not the people?

Never mind, the democrats don't want to negotiate it requires talking...
and they won't until pushed to the edge.

But we can wait for Obamacare to fail all on its own and then who gets hurts?

Edited by Kota, 16 October 2013 - 04:45 PM.


#58 Kota

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:21 PM

NeuralClone

Quote

In other words, you can't be bothered to read anything that refutes anything you say or anything that resembles reality. Got it.

Neural Clone

Quote

Should I be? What matters to me is what's happening right now and right now you're taking part in a discussion that you aren't even reading while trying to take some sort of high ground. You can't win a debate or argument by putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same things over and over again while ignoring facts and well-reasoned counterpoints.


View PostNeuralClone, on 14 October 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Where did you get the idea that I'm not reading this thread?
From your own posts. You even said, "I stopped reading after..." Even if you hadn't said that, it wouldn't have taken much for me to come to the conclusion I came to. You've repeatedly ignored well-reasoned posts and counterpoints in favor of saying the same few things that aren't based on actual facts. To me that suggests you aren't actually interested in having a discussion.

Really?.....I thought I was replying as time allowed in my schedule.

So why are you in this thread posting about my posting and not about the topic?


#59 Spectacles

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:13 AM

Kota, you said you're reading this thread but you've overlooked something. Several things actually, but here is something that goes directly to the assertion that you keep making about those "exemptions given to big businesses":

http://www.latimes.c...0,6344095.story

Quote

The "over 1,000" figure is cited often by opponents of the law, including House Republicans such as Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio, who complained on the House floor, "over the last year or so, last couple of years, the president has given his friends in the labor unions some 1,100 waivers to this law." The dispute that led to the partial government shutdown, Boehner said, is a fight about "fairness."

What they're referring to is the number of health insurance plans that the Department of Health and Human Services allowed to set lower annual caps -- temporarily -- on the total amount of medical bills they would pay for each subscriber. These include plans offered by 722 self-insured businesses, 417 groups of small employers joined in collective bargaining agreements, and 34 unions.

The Affordable Care Act requires insurers to phase out by 2014 the annual limits. The rule posed a challenge, however, to employers with "mini-med" plans, which charge extremely low premiums but offer truncated benefits and low annual caps. To keep workers from losing coverage altogether while their employers searched for an alternative, HHS granted waivers that let hundreds of mini-med plans keep  lower caps in place until 2014.

In short, the rule enabled employers and their workers to keep until next year the plans they had before the law was passed, even though they didn't meet the new minimum standards. The move may have saved some employers and unions money, but it also kept workers from losing their coverage abruptly.

Stupid people (and I'm not saying you are one) read "OBAMACARE EXEMPTIONS" as meaning that some people and corporations can opt out altogether without penalty.

That is not case, which is obvious to anyone who reads anything outside the right-wing propaganda bubble.

Edited by Spectacles, 15 October 2013 - 08:14 AM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#60 Dev F

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:35 AM

View PostKota, on 14 October 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

View PostDev F, on 14 October 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

I believe the standard counterproposal to "Why don't you agree to unwind your most significant legislative accomplishment of the past decade in exchange for nothing?" is "Go f**k yourself." If the Republicans really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they would've brought some potential concessions to the table to begin with. That's been my point all along -- if the Republicans put nothing on the table but "We'll agree not to destroy the economy," they're not making deals, they're taking hostages.

And if it wasn't really about taking hostages, if the Republicans really just wanted the Democrats to come to the table and deal, then, well . . . why did they shut down the government and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling in the first place? Why not pass a clean budget and debt ceiling bill and then trade actual concessions with the Dems to their hearts' content?
Republicans put one year delay for individuals on the table, which is fair considering all of these
companies received a one year delay? What makes companies so deserving and not the people?
So your argument is that the Republicans did indeed offer a concession to Democrats, and it was . . . to decrease the magnitude of the concession they were demanding from Democrats? Yeah, that's not how negotiation works.

"Hey, I want you to give me a million dollars in exchange for nothing."
"Of course not!"
"Fine, give me a hundred thousand dollars in exchange for nothing."
"No!"
"Come on, I reduced what you would have to pay by ninety percent! That's more than fair! Why aren't you willing to negotiate!"

Edited by Dev F, 15 October 2013 - 09:40 AM.




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