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Obamacare tripled in potential total value

Obamacare Health Care 2013

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#1 Kota

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:40 PM

I previously wrote in a thread that the cost of Obamacare has tripled.
Here ya go:

Quote

A Reuters review of government documents shows that the contract to build the federal Healthcare.gov online insurance website - key to President Barack Obama's signature healthcare reform - tripled in potential total value to nearly $292 million as new money was assigned to the work beginning in April this year.
-

"Why this went from a ceiling of $93.7 million to $292 million is hard to fathom," said Scott Amey, general counsel at the Project on Government Oversight, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group that analyzes government contracting.
"Something changed. It suggests they ran into problems and knew last spring that they couldn't do it for $93.7 million. They just blew through the original ceiling. Where was the contract oversight?"

read more here

#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

they spent THAT much on a website...and it doesn't even work properly? LMAO.
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#3 Kota

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:54 PM

Yup so far and they ain't done yet

Perhaps they should give Amazon a call,
they know how to run a huge ever changing site  :)

#4 scherzo

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Quote

Obamacare's Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn't Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are

A growing consensus of IT experts, outside and inside the government, have figured out a principal reason why the website for Obamacare’s federally-sponsored insurance exchange is crashing. Healthcare.gov forces you to create an account and enter detailed personal information before you can start shopping. This, in turn, creates a massive traffic bottleneck, as the government verifies your information and decides whether or not you’re eligible for subsidies. HHS bureaucrats knew this would make the website run more slowly. But they were more afraid that letting people see the underlying cost of Obamacare’s insurance plans would scare people away.

“Healthcare.gov was initially going to include an option to browse before registering,” report Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky in the Wall Street Journal. “But that tool was delayed, people familiar with the situation said.” Why was it delayed? “An HHS spokeswoman said the agency wanted to ensure that users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage, before they started seeing the prices of policies.”

As you know if you’ve been following this space, Obamacare’s bevy of mandates, regulations, taxes, and fees drives up the cost of the insurance plans that are offered under the law’s public exchanges. A Manhattan Institute analysis I helped conduct found that, on average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people.

That raises an obvious question. If 50 million people are uninsured today, mainly because insurance is too expensive, why is it better to make coverage even costlier?
The punchline for me is the mindblowing hostility proponents of this clusterf*** have for anyone who resists 0bama's grotesque agenda. I guess all this tumult and chaos was absolutely necessary, and the best possible solution for improving healthcare in America right...
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#5 FnlPrblm

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:37 AM

I'm guessing that it's including future cost of manpower, security, servers (supposed to handle 10k per day, but got hit with 50k a day or something like that, which seems small so those probably are inaccurate from my memory of the news late last week) and also design cost...so on.

Still, even all that seems insane.  Maybe they were trying to replicate Amazon's hackless vault?
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#6 Spectacles

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 05:57 AM

^I would think they'd have to. People are typing in sensitive information and it's just the thing that cyberterrorists--foreign and domestic--would like to crack.

It is frustrating, though. I'll agree with that.

The only thing I've read that makes some sense is that because changes in the policy have continued to happen until just late this summer, there has had be a good bit of re-working throughout this past year for the website to accomodate and calculate those changes.

Once the bugs are worked out, it will run just fine. I have faith in IT people. :)

To keep this in perspective, read this:

http://articles.wash...-administration

Quote

To implement Obamacare, look to Bush’s Medicare reform
By Michael O. Leavitt,July 12, 2013

  
Michael O. Leavitt served as secretary of health and human services under President George W. Bush. He is the founder and chairman of Leavitt Partners, which advises and invests in health-care organizations and consults with state governments on the implementation of the Affordable Care Act.

This past spring, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) called the impending implementation of the Affordable Care Act “a huge train wreck.” His words caught my attention because the last time the federal government delivered a new health-care benefit to more than 40 million people, I drove the train.

As secretary of health and human services during President George W. Bush’s second term, I faced the daunting task of rolling out Medicare’s new prescription drug benefit. Commonly referred to as “Part D,” the program is considered a tremendous success: Premiums have remained low, the program operates well under its projected budget and 90 percent of seniors are satisfied with their plan.

But in early 2006, there were days when I thought we could crash at any moment. For several weeks, the rollout of Medicare Part D felt like a runaway train — bumpy, uncomfortable, unnerving. Fortunately, the ride ended safely.

I opposed the Affordable Care Act, and I still believe that big changes to the law are necessary. But I’m not hoping for a wreck. That outcome would hurt ordinary people, not just politicians. Avoiding a calamity will be a major test for the Obama administration. To succeed, it should learn from our experiences with Part D — what we did well and where we fell short.

Part D and the Affordable Care Act resulted from contentious negotiations and fierce legislative battles. Both charged the Department of Health and Human Services with creating an insurance marketplace where people could choose among competing private plans. Both involved new regulations and information-technology systems, approval of insurer bids and plans, coordination with federal departments and state governments, and the education of millions of Americans. However, the ACA’s challenges are even greater than those we faced, given the law’s complexity, size and scope.

The Obama administration assures us that it will be ready, but independent analyses and recent delays signal potential trouble. In particular, I see four risks that could cause this train to jump the tracks: ....

Interesting take.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#7 Kota

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:38 AM

Quote

Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans. Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Nebraska said it had to hire temporary workers to contact new customers directly to resolve inaccuracies in submissions. Medical Mutual of Ohio said one customer had successfully signed up for three of its plans.

The flaws could do lasting damage to the law if customers are deterred from signing up or mistakenly believe they have obtained coverage.

“The longer this takes to resolve . . . the harder it will be to get people to [come back and] sign up,” said Aetna Inc.
link

7 million people are needed to support Obamacare,
means they need to average at least 270,000 sign ups per week to hit their target.
And they need a large portion of the 7 million to be young healthy who want instant
gratification when they get online to sign up. It's working awesome for the major target
group so far.

#8 Spectacles

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

Well, maybe it will fail miserably, hundreds of thousands will still be uninsured and we will have wasted billions of dollars. Would that make you happy?

Is there nothing like the smell of vindication in the morning?

I hope they get this site operational very, very soon. If not, the disaster won't be just a political one for Obama. It will be for all of us.

Because, really, think about it: What IS Obamacare? It's a set of regulations designed to increase people's access to health insurance--a set of regulations not handed down from on high but worked out in Congressional committees--all through 2009--working alongside representatives from insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

It is by no means perfect, but it does more to increase the numbers of people in this country who have health insurance than anything that has been proposed since Medicare/Medicaid over 40 years ago.

If we erase Obamacare, what do we get? Do you know?

* Insurers can go back to denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Know anyone with diabetes? Arthritis? Asthma?

* Insurers can go back to sending out "sorry" letters: Sorry you had a horrific accident and need 300,000 worth of medical care. You've reached your lifetime limit of health care costs under our policy, so you're on your own.

* People up to age 27 cannot be covered on their parents' policies without conditions. (I have actually known of students in community college who were there so that they could stay on their parents' insurance. Many ended up on academic probation and it was not uncommon to get pleas from parents that Junior not be put on probation because he needed to be full-time to stay on insurance. I'll add that often Junior, motivated to attend college for insurance, was flunking on the taxpayer's dime, too. Getting rid of that fulltime college requirement has probably saved taxpayers some dough.)

* Insurers can go back to having higher caps on out-of-pocket expenses for insurees.

* Insurers can go back to doing lots of things that screw their customers out of money. And they'll argue that they need to because the individual mandate ceases to exist, meaning that they don't get premiums from more healthy people to bring down the costs for everyone. And that's not socialism, unless you consider all insurance policies socialistic. THis is how they work. The more sickly an insurance company's customers are, the less money the company makes. They need healthier costumers to lower the premiums for everyone else. That's how it works, always has. Obama and the Commies did not invent this model.

So I'd be careful in rooting for this to fail. It may make for some sweet "I told you so's" for the right, but if they have bodies or know people who do, they will likely live to regret it.

Edited by Spectacles, 18 October 2013 - 03:06 PM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#9 Themis

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I have heard/read repeated reports that there have been few problems signing up by phone.  Might depend on state.  But gee, there wouldn't be so many reports of computer problems if so many people weren't trying to use the site, which would seem to argue against the idea of people not wanting it.  I'm old so I've got that eeeeeeevil socialist program Medicare.  Otherwise I'd be one of those people needing to navigate the system because without it there wouldn't be any insurance company in the country that would take me.
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#10 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:13 PM

OK, the person who authorized 300 million dollars for a WEBSITE....they seriously need to be sterilized. They should not be allowed to breed and pollute the gene pool. They are THAT stupid.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#11 FarscapeOne

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:57 AM

Agreed, Lord of the Sword.

And honestly, if Obamacare is really so great, why can't people look and compare BEFORE having to give up personal information?

It's the same as saying, "You have to pass the law before you know the contents are."

Seriously, who in their right mind would sign something over or give out personal information BEFORE reading it or getting all the facts BEFORE giving out information?

#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:34 AM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 19 October 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Agreed, Lord of the Sword.

And honestly, if Obamacare is really so great, why can't people look and compare BEFORE having to give up personal information?

It's the same as saying, "You have to pass the law before you know the contents are."

Seriously, who in their right mind would sign something over or give out personal information BEFORE reading it or getting all the facts BEFORE giving out information?

I haven't even visited the site. But I know I would not do that. There is no way I'm going to give out personal information, before I get to see what the plans are. Obama is out of his mind. You're correct, it is the same concept of: "We have to pass this bill before you can see what's in it."
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 Tricia

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:28 AM

The trouble with that logic is that in order to make sure they offer the right combination of plans you kind of need to fill out that info.  They have to know if you qualify financially, if you may be eligible for tax credits etc.  

All in order to  find your best fit on health insurance.

And if you don't like inputting that info to the website, there are the 'navigators' you can call by phone or, in some states, actually make an appointment with to get the info.  Of course, you will have to have your information on income still because there will be an income verification needed.  And that tax credit thing or if income is low enough if you will now be eligible for Medicaid ( that is IF your state expanded Medicaid)

As far as I have been able to find out, it's no more info than you would have to provide should you have to apply for any government programs. Or even just applying for student loans or credit.  They have to know that in order to know what your need is or what your ability to pay is.

Info about Obamacare 'navigators and some of the info needed-
http://www.forbes.co...-your-identity/


BTW I have diabetes and have had two strokes and I was told that it was lucky that the ACA made it so that they could not deny me coverage because they would have previously not only sent me one of those 'sorry but you've reached the limit' letters but then denied any coverage based on my newly diagnosed health issues.

I also have issues with giving out that information but if I needed it, I'd go the 'navigator' route

Oh and for those saying the insurance costs too much....I have friends who signed up and went the 'navigator' route  They said it was easy and they are very pleased (and somewhat surprised) with the rates they were offered.  Much less than they were quoted by insurance companies previously

Edited by Tricia, 19 October 2013 - 09:35 AM.

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#14 FarscapeOne

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

But you should still be able to see WHAT THE PLANS ARE before having to give out all that information.

People should be able to decide for themselves what kind of plan will suit them, or at least narrow it down, before having to find out if they qualify by giving out their account numbers and such.

You're telling me you're comfortable with the idea that the I.R.S. is in charge of Obamacare?

Edited by FarscapeOne, 19 October 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#15 Spectacles

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:04 AM

You can get a good idea of your choices by using this calculator from Kaiser:

http://kff.org/inter...idy-calculator/

I have good health insurance through work, but if I retire at 62, I'll need to buy health insurance on my own until Medicare kicks in at 65. So I used the above to see what sort of premiums I'd pay for a silver plan in Alabama (where I plan to be after retirement, drinking Jack Daniels, rocking on my porch in the country with a shotgun by my side, and trying NOT to talk politics with my much-beloved kinfolk.)

I probably would not qualify for a subsidy. Even without the subsidy, I'd pay around $2400 a year for insurance--$200 a month. That's pretty amazing for a 62 year-old woman with pre-existing conditions (as all older people have).

If I lived just a little more frugally, withdrawing less from retirement savings, I would qualify for a subsidy of almost $1000 a year, which would bring down my insurance costs to around $1500 a year: $125 a month.

So....personally? I'm kind of hoping that the ACA survives the propaganda war being waged against it.

And I'm hoping it survives for the sakes of a lot of folks who are being mislead into waging it, too. They apparently don't know what it really offers them, and they would rather embrace the lies repeated by people who really don't know what they're talking about.

It's sad.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#16 Tricia

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 19 October 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

But you should still be able to see WHAT THE PLANS ARE before having to give out all that information.

People should be able to decide for themselves what kind of plan will suit them, or at least narrow it down, before having to find out if they qualify by giving out their account numbers and such.

You're telling me you're comfortable with the idea that the I.R.S. is in charge of Obamacare?

You don't think that the IRS already has that info as far as your income levels, social security numbers and if you might qualify for a tax  credit? (but they sure aren't going to volunteer the info if you do. you have to find out  those type of thing on your own)  No doubt that will be at least one income verification reference/proof.

And a lot of those government agencies are already interlinked even through the state


And Specs listed that link above...it will help

Edited by Tricia, 19 October 2013 - 12:42 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#17 FarscapeOne

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

But once you put your account information in there, they can simply take money out for your insurance.  Or if you decide not to get it, take the penalty out directly.

And what happens during the glitches?  For example... say you already bought under their website, but an error happens and it ends up putting you under penalty category saying you didn't get a plan.  You think you'll get your money back anytime soon?  Everyone here knows damn well the I.R.S. is quick to take money but VERY slow in giving back what they are supposed to.

#18 Spectacles

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

^ The link I gave you doesn't sign you up for anything, FarscapeOne. It's purely informational. I've used it to explore all kinds of scenarios.

You can use it to look up info about plans for your mom.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#19 FarscapeOne

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:07 PM

I know, Spectacles.  I was referring to the Obamacare site itself.

#20 Anakam

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 19 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

But once you put your account information in there, they can simply take money out for your insurance.  Or if you decide not to get it, take the penalty out directly.


Is that only because signing up for an account requires SSN & DOB (which is the point at which I would create additional security questions for my bank), or because signing up for an account also requires giving out bank account details?

Spectacles said:

* Insurers can go back to sending out "sorry" letters: Sorry you had a horrific accident and need 300,000 worth of medical care. You've reached your lifetime limit of health care costs under our policy, so you're on your own.


This aspect reminded me of something.  Interestingly, my policy last year was more compliant, as it were, than this year's policy (at least by the information available during the last half of enrollment, and for which we had no info but aggregate maximums for the first half of enrollment): last year the maximum was $500k.  This year, the aggregate maximum per year was given as $500k during the first half of enrollment, and the excuse for a benefits summary that came out during the last half of enrollment said the limit per sickness/injury was $50k.  Yes, the number of zeroes is correct.  (Slightly OT, I realize this is about the website cost and signup, etc.)  For this privilege, and losing our out of pocket maximum and having out out of network benefits reduced, we were graced with a ~5% reduction in premiums.  And God help us if we need physical therapy for months after an accident, because they sure won't.  I thought it was a rather bizarre temper tantrum on the company's part.

Edited by Anakam, 19 October 2013 - 05:41 PM.

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