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NELSON Mandela, 95,

Obituaries Nelson Mandela 2013 South Africa

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#1 offworlder

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:11 PM

NELSON Mandela, freedom fighter,

I am not one who worships the ground walked on, but this man was one O those like the mags
do, man of the decade, this man was one O the ten Men O the century,

against a police state which no one had the power to thwart in a year or a decade, this man spent his life working for, organizing for, speaking for, liberty and equality and opportunity for all.

to them, he did those things, he was a criminal, he conspired, he organized, he fought against what they
said was the righteous civility; I read on the Boer wars, so I know how they felt they were God's chosen like th e promised land, and it was right for them to take the power, use the oppressed , and so forth.

to him, he was fighting against the wrong, the evil, the oppressors, for liberty and mankind.

http://news.yahoo.co...-214057711.html
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#2 Themis

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:13 PM

Not unexpected, but it's the passing of a giant.
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#3 Spectacles

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:23 PM

^Indeed....
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#4 offworlder

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:21 PM

HERE
is
his famous speech, in his own voice,before being quieted by the prisons,
http://www.theguardi...64-speech-audio

plus,
good pic of him in happier years,after his famous letter reply, that only a free man can contract,
reply to the qualified offer to be freed, an imprisoned man cannot contract, negotiate,
http://www.theguardi...95-south-africa
:harper:
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#5 Godeskian

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:16 AM

I'll say the same thing I did on Facebook

So Nelson Mandela is dead.

I could say many things, but all I'll say is that it's a tragedy that everyone knows his name, but if I say F.W. De Klerk 90% of people would have to Wikipedia him first, even though he was more directly responsible for actually ending apartheid in South Africa than anyone else was. Heck, he's the sole reason Mandela was freed to begin with.

It's a hell of a thing sometimes.

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#6 Spectacles

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:07 AM

I don't think de Klerk, who shared the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize with Mandela and who has been honored throughout his life for his remarkable contributions to ending apartheid and working for South Africa's progress would agree with you, Gode:

Quote

About Nelson Mandela, he said, "When Mandela goes it will be a moment when all South Africans put away their political differences, will take hands, and will together honour maybe the biggest known South African that has ever lived."[28]

The above is from de Klerk's Wikipedia page.

And why must there be this either/or? Either you honor Mandela or you honor de Klerk? If you honor Mandela, then somehow you are participating in his overshadowing of de Klerk.....Does not compute to me.

:shrug:

On NPR yesterday, a reporter in Soweto was describing an amazingly joyous scene. He said that people were singing and dancing in the streets, with joy, to honor Mandela's life. Even in a little restaurant, he said, the diners burst into song.

How wonderful it is to have lived such a life that people really do celebrate your life at its end, simply thrilled that you lived.

An old friend from high school made this observation on FB:

Quote

I lived under apartheid too -- the version we had in Alabama. Here, as in South Africa, people who opposed it were branded as Communists, as Nelson Mandela was. When he was released from prison, he showed what happens when someone decides to live in forgiveness and grace rather than in fear and hate.

A hearty amen to that. That grace and forgiveness is what made Mandela so extraordinary and his leadership, with those qualities, are what gave South Africa hope. De Klerk was his partner in this, not his rival, and should be honored as such.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#7 Godeskian

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

I'm just saying it would be nice if anyone remembered him at all. I've read plenty of articles on Nelson Mandela in the last few days. Of everything I read only a single article even mentioned De Klerk. It does a disservice to them both. But as always YMMV

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#8 Nikcara

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

I think the problem is that very few Americans know much of anything about South Africa and don't care to.

They've heard of Nelson Mandela and apartheid, but don't know any of the rest of the history.  Most of the people around me wouldn't know what Soweto is, let alone where.  They don't care about the riots, the human rights violations, the struggle, or any of the rest of it.  It's depressing how many times lately I've tried to have a conversation about South Africa and just get "meh, Africa sucks. That's not news".  They know Nelson Mandela was important but know very little about why or how, let alone know anything about any other important player.

I think that's the actual sad part.  So far the only people I've had informed conversations with about apartheid have been on the internet.
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#9 Spectacles

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:09 PM

View PostGodeskian, on 07 December 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

I'm just saying it would be nice if anyone remembered him at all. I've read plenty of articles on Nelson Mandela in the last few days. Of everything I read only a single article even mentioned De Klerk. It does a disservice to them both. But as always YMMV

Sorry. I misunderstood. From your FB post, it sounded like your primary response to Mandela's death it is that it's a shame de Klerk isn't as well known.

And it's true, of course. De Klerk isn't--but then, as Nikcara says, most people outside South Africa only know that Mandela is well-known and well-respected but they don't really know why. Mandela certainly has greater name recognition than de Klerk. But most people outside South Africa don't really know the history that both men made.

I think that's just the nature of the modern world.... Most of my students have no idea that Martin Luther King, Jr. did anything other than give speeches. Worse, they think he led "riots," since most have no knowledge of civil disobedience, segregation laws in the South, and the nature of the times.

Maybe it's a by-product of living in the Information Age: we're all like sieves that loads of information wash through, but the sheer quantity prevents most of us from knowing much about anything in depth. It's like the new news cycle re-sets our brains.

I've been thinking these past few days about how little I really know about Mandela. Of course I followed the news and he was in it, so I'm aware that, once released from 27 years in prison, he did his best to lead a nonviolent transition in South Africa from minority white rule to one more democratically-represented. And, yes, de Klerk was the partner he needed, like Gorbachev was Reagan's in the ending of the Cold War. But that's about all I know.

So I'm thinking of reading Mandela's autobiography over Christmas break. I'd like to know more about him.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#10 offworlder

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

> Maybe it's a by-product of living in the Information Age: we're all like sieves that loads of information wash through, but the sheer quantity prevents most of us from knowing much about anything in depth. It's like the new news cycle re-sets our brains< .. it is true, and the remark about the internet age as well : in pre-internet we had so many things we didnt even hear a headline, now with internet though we have so many headlines, so many soundbytes, quips, that we dont take time to get in depth with anything, Oh There is so much this week I just dont have time to read the whole thing; like the new popular apps that distill, they show you a headline and just one or two paras, and rewrite summary paras, of the thing, then on to the next, and next, and... so you learn there is this thing but not what, how, or anything about it. :( > and how little we know or how long til we know; I did not hear that record of Mandela speech 1964 til now, put in a film with images and then on internet for all; those who parse healines then move on will not hear it, and me all the years before internet never heard it, only heard it now this year after all those years, why didnt we hear that record, he told the speech in his trial when convicted of terrorism, press must v got that record sometime, maybe years later but not decades? but only now right now this week I heard his voice tell that speech for the first time; so no wonder people dont know exactly how he is famous ;)
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#11 Norville

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:44 PM

I'm an American who remembers both Mandela and de Clerk, and I even remember a horrendous form of "justice" called "necklacing," in which perceived criminals were killed by placing burning tires around their necks. I remember attending a talk on my college campus back in the day when a white South African was justifying apartheid, and everyone was getting deeply frustrated and angry, to the point where I was relieved when the talk ended, because the tension was feeling unsafe. So, not all Americans are ignorant... just most of them. Arrggh...

[Edited to correct typo.]

Edited by Norville, 08 December 2013 - 10:57 AM.

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#12 Nonny

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostNorville, on 07 December 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I'm an American who remembers both Mandela and de Clerk, and I even remember a horrendous form of "justice" called "necklacing," in which perceived criminals were killed by placing burning tires around their necks. I remember attending a talk on my college campus back in the day when a white South African was justifying apartheid, and everyone was getting deeply fustrated and angry, to the point where I was relieved when the talk ended, because the tension was feeling unsafe. So, not all Americans are ignorant... just most of them. Arrggh...

I am too, and I remember Winnie; why she had to be demonized over the divorce, I do not know.  The South African grad student who came to my church was very unhappy about that, and I shared her concern that women would be sidelined politically just as the end of apartheid was finally in sight.

That said, he was a great man, and I honor his life at his passing, as I honored it during the bad times and the good.  May he rest in peace.
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#13 offworlder

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:49 PM

things you did not know(?)(maybe) about
MANDELA,
BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk...africa-22006386
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D



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