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Chris Christie's Waterloo?

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie 2014 Bridgegate

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#21 scherzo

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on 09 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

For the record, I'd say the same if Christie were a Democrat.

As would I.
You've served up a SURREAL amount of evidence to the contrary.
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#22 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

View PostDev F, on 09 January 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

4 Americans murdered in a war zone is a tragedy.  The coverup allegation by the right was and remains a pathetic and shameful attempt to make political hay out of said tragedy.
Ayep. It's an unfortunate and inescapable truth that you haven't had to look hard to find examples of tragedy, mismanagement, and plain old bumbling in the past few years of Obama's presidency. What you haven't found in any of those cases, not even if you're a congressional Republican desperate to gin up outrage against the evil Muslim socialist in the White House, is the kind of evidence that came crashing down on Christie yesterday: a paper trail to indicate that the crappy situation wasn't just the result of bad luck and/or bad management at some level or another, but was deliberately engineered for political purposes.

So, yes, this is different from something like the IRS scandal, because at no point did we see an e-mail from someone in the administration to the IRS staff saying, "Time for tax problems at the Tea Party." Indeed, subsequent reportage made it pretty clear that this was an internal procedural failure at the IRS that indiscriminately swept up liberal political groups as well as conservative ones. And the only "evidence" that this it was about political payback is conservatives' unshakable conviction that Obama and his "Chicago-style" cronies would totally do something like that.

So you're giving credit because Obama was better at hiding the paper trail?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#23 Dev F

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

So you're giving credit because Obama was better at hiding the paper trail?
No, I'm refraining from jumping to the conclusion that there was any paper trail to hide when there's zero evidence to suggest it.

And come on: considering how frequently the administration gets caught flat-footed over matters that are merely politically embarrassing, do you really think they'd have the ability to expertly conceal evidence of actual corruption, despite the heroic efforts of congressional Republicans to uncover something -- anything -- truly damning.

#24 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:35 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:


Maybe it's time to brush up on what Nixon actually did...?  

just a thought.

Wasn't Nixon the one that bugged offices? Isn't Obama "bugging" all Americans with his NSA spying program? Yep, Nixon would be proud of Obama.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#25 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:37 PM

View PostDev F, on 09 January 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:


And come on: considering how frequently the administration gets caught flat-footed over matters that are merely politically embarrassing, do you really think they'd have the ability to expertly conceal evidence of actual corruption, despite the heroic efforts of congressional Republicans to uncover something -- anything -- truly damning.

When it comes to "covering your own a$$" I think Government wrote the book on how to do that. Some Administrations are just better at it then others.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#26 BklnScott

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:40 PM

View Postscherzo, on 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on 09 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

For the record, I'd say the same if Christie were a Democrat.

As would I.
You've served up a SURREAL amount of evidence to the contrary.

Really?  10 March 2008:

http://www.exisle.ne...g/#entry1095867

Quote

I voted for Eliot Spitzer.  More, I was an enthusiastic supporter of Eliot Spitzer.  (I even met him once--He kicked off his campaign after the convention in Buffalo with a tour of the state that ended with a street rally in front of the NYC apartment building his father grew up in... which happens to be across the dead end street from my building on East 5th St.)

But I don't support him anymore.  Now, I call for his resignation
  


I also criticized McGreevy when everybody else was falling all over themselves to give him a pass for CORRUPTION just because he came out of the closet.  Horse puckey.  You can look those posts up, too.

You were saying...?

Edited by BklnScott, 09 January 2014 - 01:40 PM.

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#27 offworlder

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:42 PM

just in case anyone in the midst of the fight, wants to see the remarks from press conf ;) http://www.washingto...s-traffic-jams/  ,  > Mr. Christie also announced that he was also taking action against Bill Stepien — a former campaign manager and top political adviser who was entangled in the bridge controversy.
Mr. Christie said he is withdrawing his nomination of Mr. Stepien to he the head of the New Jersey Republican Party and said he would no longer advise the Republican Governors Association, which Mr. Christie chairs.
NewJersey.com sparked a political firestorm Wednesday when it ran a series of email and text messages between Ms. Kelly and Christie-backed officials at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey that strongly suggested they had orchestrated the unexpected lane closures on the George Washington Bridge, which connects New Jersey and New York, snarling traffic in neighboring Fort Lee and other communities for several days.
“Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” Mrs. Kelly wrote Aug. 13, about three weeks before the lanes were closed, to David Wildstein, a Christie ally and executive at the Port Authority.
Mr. Wildstein, who ordered the closures and has since resigned, responded, “Got it.”
Mr. Christie had previously mocked the idea that his administration was involved in the scandal and insisted that the traffic jams were related to a traffic studies.
But he struck a different tune Thursday, saying,” I was wrong,” “embarrassed” and “humiliated.” He said he was “blindsided” by the story and first learned about the story Wednesday morning after he finished a workout.
“I had no knowledge or involvement in this issue — in its planning or execution,” Mr. Christie said. “I am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here, regardless of what the facts ultimately uncovered. This was handle in a callous and indifferent way and it is not the way this administration has handled itself over the last four years.”
“This is the exception, not the rule,” Mr. Christie said.
<
so,
basically,
tossed everyone under the bus, but him :harper:
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#28 BklnScott

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Maybe it's time to brush up on what Nixon actually did...?  

just a thought.

Wasn't Nixon the one that bugged offices? Isn't Obama "bugging" all Americans with his NSA spying program? Yep, Nixon would be proud of Obama.

No.  (Assume you're thinking about the white house tapes - but that was about Nixon taping himself for posterity... including - absurdly - all the times he conspired to commit crimes, revealed a vehemently racist and anti-semitic streak, prolonged Vietnam for political purposes, etc.)

Seriously - google White House Plumbers.  That's a good place to start (and tons of fun to read about).

Edited by BklnScott, 09 January 2014 - 01:48 PM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#29 Cait

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:


Wasn't Nixon the one that bugged offices? Isn't Obama "bugging" all Americans with his NSA spying program? Yep, Nixon would be proud of Obama.

These really aren't comparable, and if we wanted to compare them, we'd have to include Bush 43 in there too because he used the NSA to do the same thing as Obama, but let's go with it for the sake of debate.  Are there people here in OT that are actually happy with Obama's NSA spying?  People have been pretty critical of the whole NSA spying thing?  I don't think Nixon would be proud of Obama at all.  Nixon let power corrupt him, but he was an experienced politician and leader.  Obama is just incompetent at a lot of what he does.  Why would Nixon be proud?  For getting caught???

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

When it comes to "covering your own a$$" I think Government wrote the book on how to do that. Some Administrations are just better at it then others.

People should all make up their minds about the Obama Administration.  Either it is so good that it can cover up everything and anything, or it is just incompetent.  Make up your mind.  Because you can't have it both ways.

As for Christie, *sigh*, looks like the decimation of candidates before the primary season has begun.  

From what I've read, this will be a death blow to his Presidential ambitions.  Not so much because of any general election possibilities, but because his opponents in the primaries will skewer him alive. And, they will say he was closer to a Democrat than a pure Republican.  Can't say as I would blame them.  This kind of corruption is way too close to the Nixon stain, you can't give Democrats that kind of ammunition to use against all Republicans in a general election.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#30 Kota

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

We can break it down, Christie seemed to do what we've been expecting from the president. When he found out - he investigated before he came forward, took action firing his top staff member prior to speaking to the nation. He took full responsibility and made a personal apology. He took many questions from the press, answered each of them. I know compared to the president, I'm much more satisifed with the governors response. What will happen anyone's guess -

Who found the emails, and why are they just getting this news out now?  
Timing is odd

#31 Cait

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:44 PM

View PostKota, on 09 January 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Who found the emails, and why are they just getting this news out now?  Timing is odd

This was a question I had as well.  I'm not sure the timing is odd as off.  What is interesting is that they didn't come out prior to the election.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#32 BklnScott

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

Indeed.  The traffic jam was local news in September, of course, but the legislature and Port Authority didn't begin investigating until October, and it wasn't until after the election that the story really started gathering steam.  Local news and Rachel Maddow were all over it from late November, particularly for the early December resignations of key senior staff members - but it didn't become a global news story until yesterday's revelations.  You have to wonder whether the Christie folks were engaging in a Wag the Dog scenario in October.

The emails and text messages were subpoenaed by Assemblyman John Wisniewski, chairman of the Assembly Transportation and Public Works Committee.  Notably, they were delivered HEAVILY redacted.  There are thousands of pages of additional documents, by the way.  (Note that the subpoena power was due to expire - so in addition to a possible Wag the Dog scenario in October, it seems like the Christie Administration was trying to play out the clock.  Now, politically, it will be impossible for Christie's Republicans not to go along with reauthorizing the subpoena power - so the State Assembly will continue to investigate, as will the US Attorney.)

BTW, this is still pretty damning even if we assume Christie is telling the truth, which is stretch.  (Really?  He just learned about this yesterday?  He still believes in the secret transportation study?  RIDICULOUS.  This is a former fire-breathing Federal prosecutor, let's remember.)

Edited by BklnScott, 09 January 2014 - 03:19 PM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#33 Balderdash

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:32 PM

View PostDev F, on 09 January 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

So you're giving credit because Obama was better at hiding the paper trail?
No, I'm refraining from jumping to the conclusion that there was any paper trail to hide when there's zero evidence to suggest it.

And come on: considering how frequently the administration gets caught flat-footed over matters that are merely politically embarrassing, do you really think they'd have the ability to expertly conceal evidence of actual corruption, despite the heroic efforts of congressional Republicans to uncover something -- anything -- truly damning.

Bolding mine and ain't that the truth!

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#34 Spectacles

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:40 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 January 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on 09 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

is pretty far removed from who he is up close: a pathological politician who makes Nixon look noble.

I thought this thread was about Christie, not President Obama.

It was. :)
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#35 scherzo

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:20 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on 09 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on 09 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

For the record, I'd say the same if Christie were a Democrat.

As would I.
You've served up a SURREAL amount of evidence to the contrary.

Really?  10 March 2008:

http://www.exisle.ne...g/#entry1095867

Quote

I voted for Eliot Spitzer.  More, I was an enthusiastic supporter of Eliot Spitzer.  (I even met him once--He kicked off his campaign after the convention in Buffalo with a tour of the state that ended with a street rally in front of the NYC apartment building his father grew up in... which happens to be across the dead end street from my building on East 5th St.)

But I don't support him anymore.  Now, I call for his resignation
  


I also criticized McGreevy when everybody else was falling all over themselves to give him a pass for CORRUPTION just because he came out of the closet.  Horse puckey.  You can look those posts up, too.

You were saying...?
I was saying you've served up a surreal amount of evidence to the contrary. IE: the casual dismissal of every item in the hoard of documented lies, screw-ups and corruption of Team 0bama and Hillary. A feat even Chris Matthews couldn't pull off with a straight face. The sheer scale of it all dwarfs even the worst allegations against Elliot Sleazeball, so I'll admit I have no idea how and where you decide to confer the benefit of the doubt. Carry on...
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#36 BklnScott

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:49 PM

Yes, it's clear that mystifies you.  I would refer you back to Dev F's excellent post on the distinction between your list of made up "scandals" and what the Christie Administration did.  

Quote

What you haven't found in any of those cases, not even if you're a congressional Republican desperate to gin up outrage against the evil Muslim socialist in the White House, is the kind of evidence that came crashing down on Christie yesterday: a paper trail to indicate that the crappy situation wasn't just the result of bad luck and/or bad management at some level or another, but was deliberately engineered for political purposes.


P.S., this is also why the made up scandals right wingers like to fulminate over remain consigned to the right wing media sphere while a real scandal like this instantly becomes national and even global news.  The converse is also true - the right wing media sphere refused to report on the Christie story yesterday even though it was every other news organization in the country's number one story.  

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#37 Cait

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:03 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 09 January 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

The converse is also true - the right wing media sphere refused to report on the Christie story yesterday even though it was every other news organization in the country's number one story.  

But, it's a hot topic today, at least on Hannity's radio show.  Hot as in, let's begin to spin this now.  Christie didn't know about it, he fired people, and why hasn't Obama fired Kathleen Sibelius?  Course, no mention of the email revelations.  Just the mantra about Christie being a better man for firing people.  The 91-year old lady? Well, according to Hannity, who knows what would have happened without the traffic jams.  She might have died anyway.  [Which is unfortunately true, we don't know what would have happened, but it is a weasly way to deflect from the real public safety concerns.]

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#38 scherzo

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:06 PM

Quote

Yes, it's clear that mystifies you.  I would refer you back to Dev F's excellent post on the distinction between your list of made up "scandals" and what the Christie Administration did.
OK...just read it.

It's crap.

Next...  

Quote

P.S., this is also why the made up scandals right wingers like to fulminate over remain consigned to the right wing media sphere while a real scandal like this instantly becomes national and even global news.  The converse is also true - the right wing media sphere refused to report on the Christie story yesterday even though it was every other news organization in the country's number one story.
  
So the items on my(very incomplete) list of Team 0bama fail I posted earlier, never made national news...and right wing media ignored the Christie story.

Oh boy, wow...OK you're wrong on both counts Scott. Spectacularly so. Virtually anyone who pays attention to the news(and EVERYONE who cruises the so called right-wing media)could correct you, although I'm not entirely sure it would compute.  Frankly if you and Dev can spin the last 5 years into a tale worthy of The Holy Pantheon of Political Integrity, all the rest of us can do is point and stare. Godspeed my friend...
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#39 Kota

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:58 PM

Quote

Oh boy, wow...OK you're wrong on both counts Scott. Spectacularly so. Virtually anyone who pays attention to the news(and EVERYONE who cruises the so called right-wing media)could correct you, although I'm not entirely sure it would compute.  Frankly if you and Dev can spin the last 5 years into a tale worthy of The Holy Pantheon of Political Integrity, all the rest of us can do is point and stare. Godspeed my friend...

Absolutely!!
Just because the left refuses to acknowledge the list of Obama scandals doesn't mean they can be sweep under the rug as if they didn't happen.  Particular when Mr Obama expresses himself like this after each event - "But I have got no patience with it, I will not tolerate it, and we will make sure that we find out exactly what happened on this,"

Christie stood strong and if he is telling the truth, he'll will survive.

#40 Kota

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:02 PM

Quote

Yesterday, the Bergen Record reported that a 91 year old woman died during New Jersey Governor Chris Christies bridge traffic scandal, possibly because emergency response teams could not reach her in time. Today, the daughter of that woman is saying she believes the death had nothing do with “Bridgegate.”

“I honestly believe it was just her time,” Vilma Oleri, whose mother, Florence Genova, died on the morning of September 9th, told The New York Times. “We want to stay out of it. It’s not political.”

Genova’s son-in-law Frank Oleri told the Times, “We believe she died in her home, but they couldn’t pronounce her until she got to the hospital. “The traffic didn’t make any difference.”
http://www.mediaite....-mothers-death/



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