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In-dept interview with Obama

Obama Interview 2014

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#1 Spectacles

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:47 AM

The New Yorker has published a long, detailed article by David Remnick, who accompanied Obama and staff on a West coast trip.

The result is a long, but fascinating, look at behind-the-scenes Obama. He holds forth on a variety of topics from marijuana to the Mideast to widening economic inequality in this country to the limits of the presidency.

Interesting stuff.

http://www.newyorker...currentPage=all

Edited by Spectacles, 20 January 2014 - 08:48 AM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:05 AM

Lately I find myself tuning out whenever Liar in Chief starts talking. I mean, the mainstream media tosses softball question after softball question at Liar in Chief...Who, just about every other word out of his mouth is a Lie, so why even bother listening to him?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#3 Spectacles

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:10 AM

I got nothing. Folks can read the article or not.

*shrug*

I guess it's always easier to say "oh, I already know everything there is to know about ______" and move on.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#4 Spectacles

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:13 AM

Gah!

Mods, could someone add an "h" at the end of "in-dept" in the title for me? Thanks.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#5 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

View PostSpectacles, on 20 January 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

I got nothing. Folks can read the article or not.

*shrug*

I guess it's always easier to say "oh, I already know everything there is to know about ______" and move on.

With me it's not that I already know everything there is to know about Obama...It's that I KNOW he's a compulsive Liar. So why bother listening to more Lies? Sure, there is a Billion to one chance he might not lie, but I have better odds at winning the Lotto then that happening.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#6 Spectacles

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 10:33 AM

Then by all means, don't bother reading this long article. :) You know what you know.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#7 Cait

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 20 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Lately I find myself tuning out whenever Liar in Chief starts talking. I mean, the mainstream media tosses softball question after softball question at Liar in Chief...Who, just about every other word out of his mouth is a Lie, so why even bother listening to him?

I need to ask you LotS, do you really believe Obama lies about EVERYTHING?  I mean everything.  Do you believe he is a sociopath then?  Think about that for a moment.  It would mean that in every situation, he goes for the lie, even with the truth is easier to tell.  Is anyone caught in a lie, always a lair?  I have plenty of doubts about Obama myself.  I am extremely disappointed in his Administration.  BUT, I don't believe he is a sociopathic liar either.

In the case of politicians, I don't like it, but I understand political lies.  Let me say that again.  I don't like it.  But, there are plenty of lies told each and every day that are a product of political expediency - not sociopathy.  It's in this endless, he's a liar without any inspection that bothers me in today's political electorate.  The all or nothing attitude.  Which I find quite destructive to good governance.  It's good for the GOP to have all Republicans believe that ALL Democrats are liars.  It's good for the Democratic Party to have Democrats believe ALL Republicans are lairs.  But beyond that political expediency [and that is all it is.. a way to ensure continued power for a political Party.] is it actually true?

Of course it isn't.  Even liars, don't lie all the time.   You just have to dig a lot harder to determine when something is true and when it isn't.  But, we should be doing that anyway.  Politicians lie when it suits their purpose, and can get away with it.  It's our job to be vigilant and determine the truth, isn't it?

So, when you turn off and don't listen, you are never even looking for what is a lie and what might be the truth.  You can't tell because you never even listen.  You don't have to trust Obama.  You don't have to like him.  You don't have to believe in his policies.  But, you owe it to yourself to pursue the truth, and that means listening to him [if you can stand it].

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#8 Spectacles

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:11 PM

Here's a sample of what the article is like:

Quote

Obama lost among white voters in 2012 by a margin greater than any victor in American history. The popular opposition to the Administration comes largely from older whites who feel threatened, underemployed, overlooked, and disdained in a globalized economy and in an increasingly diverse country. Obama’s drop in the polls in 2013 was especially grave among white voters. “There’s no doubt that there’s some folks who just really dislike me because they don’t like the idea of a black President,” Obama said. “Now, the flip side of it is there are some black folks and maybe some white folks who really like me and give me the benefit of the doubt precisely because I’m a black President.” The latter group has been less in evidence of late.

“There is a historic connection between some of the arguments that we have politically and the history of race in our country, and sometimes it’s hard to disentangle those issues,” he went on. “You can be somebody who, for very legitimate reasons, worries about the power of the federal government—that it’s distant, that it’s bureaucratic, that it’s not accountable—and as a consequence you think that more power should reside in the hands of state governments. But what’s also true, obviously, is that philosophy is wrapped up in the history of states’ rights in the context of the civil-rights movement and the Civil War and Calhoun. There’s a pretty long history there. And so I think it’s important for progressives not to dismiss out of hand arguments against my Presidency or the Democratic Party or Bill Clinton or anybody just because there’s some overlap between those criticisms and the criticisms that traditionally were directed against those who were trying to bring about greater equality for African-Americans. The flip side is I think it’s important for conservatives to recognize and answer some of the problems that are posed by that history, so that they understand if I am concerned about leaving it up to states to expand Medicaid that it may not simply be because I am this power-hungry guy in Washington who wants to crush states’ rights but, rather, because we are one country and I think it is going to be important for the entire country to make sure that poor folks in Mississippi and not just Massachusetts are healthy.”

Obama’s advisers are convinced that if the Republicans don’t find a way to attract non-white voters, particularly Hispanics and Asians, they may lose the White House for two or three more election cycles. And yet Obama still makes every effort to maintain his careful, balancing tone, as if the unifying moment were still out there somewhere in the middle distance. “There were times in our history where Democrats didn’t seem to be paying enough attention to the concerns of middle-class folks or working-class folks, black or white,” he said. “And this was one of the great gifts of Bill Clinton to the Party—to say, you know what, it’s entirely legitimate for folks to be concerned about getting mugged, and you can’t just talk about police abuse. How about folks not feeling safe outside their homes? It’s all fine and good for you to want to do something about poverty, but if the only mechanism you have is raising taxes on folks who are already feeling strapped, then maybe you need to widen your lens a little bit. And I think that the Democratic Party is better for it. But that was a process. And I am confident that the Republicans will go through that same process.”

For the moment, though, the opposition party is content to define itself, precisely, by its opposition.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:50 PM

View PostCait, on 20 January 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 20 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Lately I find myself tuning out whenever Liar in Chief starts talking. I mean, the mainstream media tosses softball question after softball question at Liar in Chief...Who, just about every other word out of his mouth is a Lie, so why even bother listening to him?

I need to ask you LotS, do you really believe Obama lies about EVERYTHING?  I mean everything.  Do you believe he is a sociopath then?  Think about that for a moment.  It would mean that in every situation, he goes for the lie, even with the truth is easier to tell.  Is anyone caught in a lie, always a lair?  I have plenty of doubts about Obama myself.  I am extremely disappointed in his Administration.  BUT, I don't believe he is a sociopathic liar either.

In the case of politicians, I don't like it, but I understand political lies.  Let me say that again.  I don't like it.  But, there are plenty of lies told each and every day that are a product of political expediency - not sociopathy.  It's in this endless, he's a liar without any inspection that bothers me in today's political electorate.  The all or nothing attitude.  Which I find quite destructive to good governance.  It's good for the GOP to have all Republicans believe that ALL Democrats are liars.  It's good for the Democratic Party to have Democrats believe ALL Republicans are lairs.  But beyond that political expediency [and that is all it is.. a way to ensure continued power for a political Party.] is it actually true?

Of course it isn't.  Even liars, don't lie all the time.   You just have to dig a lot harder to determine when something is true and when it isn't.  But, we should be doing that anyway.  Politicians lie when it suits their purpose, and can get away with it.  It's our job to be vigilant and determine the truth, isn't it?

So, when you turn off and don't listen, you are never even looking for what is a lie and what might be the truth.  You can't tell because you never even listen.  You don't have to trust Obama.  You don't have to like him.  You don't have to believe in his policies.  But, you owe it to yourself to pursue the truth, and that means listening to him [if you can stand it].

Well, with Obama...I really can't stand listening to him. I really can't, not after SO MANY lies.

As for the whole lying thing...I'm old school. If someone lies to me, then as far as I'm concerned...they are worthless. Piles of manure have more use then they do, IMO. I will never, not ever, believe a word they say...without concrete, absolute proof. I also will not listen to a damn thing they say. And as far as I'm concerned...If Obama had never even been born, this world would be a lot better off.

edited to add: The whole lying thing goes for ALL politicians, BTW. On BOTH sides of the Isle.

Edited by Lord of the Sword, 20 January 2014 - 05:51 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#10 FarscapeOne

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:02 PM

My views on liars are the same as Lord of the Sword's.  In my family, honesty and integrity are the cornerstone of EVERY relationship... business partnerships, friendships, romantic relationships.  ALL relationships!  The same holds especially true for people elected in an office where they are supposed to be the voice of the people that elected them there to begin with.

When someone breaks that trust, it is VERY difficult to regain it, and it is never quite the same again anyway.  When someone lies repeatedly, you don't want to bother hearing them because it takes too much effort to pick through what they say and see if they ARE being truthful.  Had they not lied to begin with, there wouldn't be an issue.

The boy who cried wolf is sadly something that seems to have been forgotten by everyone these days.

And you know something?  Garak from STAR TREK:  DEEP SPACE NINE nailed the meaning of what it means to be a politician in this era with one simple exchange with Dr. Bashir from "IMPROBABLE CAUSE", after he told Garak the story of the boy who cried wolf.

I don't remember the exact quote, as I haven't seen the episode for over a decade...

"Are you sure that's the lesson?"  Garak
"What other lesson could it possibly be?"  Bashir
"To never tell the same lie twice."  Garak

#11 Balthamos

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:35 AM

Why not hold media sources to the same standards?

#12 Tricia

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:17 AM

I'm troubled by this thread as there was really no need to make any comment if the decision was made NOT to read the linked article for whatever one's reasons were.

I get that people might feel this way as mentioned above but my policy has always been that if I don't want to or don't feel like reading an article, I just don't participate in that thread.


sigh...and I've broken my own rule because while I read the linked article I really have nothing to add beyond it was an interesting read once I found the time to actually read it

Edited by Tricia, 21 January 2014 - 11:49 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


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#13 Spectacles

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:01 PM

^Glad you found it interesting, Tricia. :)

What I found most interesting is that it is a rare, long documentary on Obama behind the scenes. This is different from the ultra-polished White House releases (though I'm sure the WH PR team exercised the right to review this before it was published) and from the Obama is satan! crap from the right. What emerges is a pretty complex portrait of a guy whose habit of mind is always to qualify, always to look at both sides. He also comes across, to me, as a bit arrogant. And I'm surprised at one point when he goes into a really stupid slippery slope argument against the legalization of drugs (though he does come out in favor of decriminalizing pot) as though it had some validity. He knows better than to endorse a fallacious argument. So I thought that was odd. But maybe it comes from his "see the other side" impulse.

Anyway, one thing this guy is NOT is a dictator, which is clear at various points in his discussion with the writer. But good luck convincing anyone who frequents right wing sites of that. Obama = Hitler in those circles. If they bothered to read the article, or his books, (and they won't) they'll see how absurd that is.

I don't like Obama. But he in no way resembles the cartoon the right draws of him. He's a philosophical, intelligent guy who, on the one hand, wants to do the right thing for the country--whatever that might be--and, on the other, wants to make a name for himself as a "great" President and join the Mt. Rushmore pantheon. And yet he finds the sort of schmoozing and arm-twisting necessary to get legislative accomplishments distasteful....In some ways, I see him as a representative of his late boomer/post-boomer generation: benefiting from the work of those who went before him, nurtured into a sense of his own specialness, and expecting for things to come together and work out just because he's him. And when they don't, he's a bit miffed.

His post-presidential plans sound similar to Clinton's and Carter's: global initiatives to funnel resources where they are needed to improve health and well-being of others. But it will be interesting to see just how he approaches this. Freed from political ambition, who will Barack Obama be? It's going to be interesting to watch.

Edited by Spectacles, 21 January 2014 - 02:02 PM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#14 Nonny

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:15 PM

For those of you who trash a person over a lie, did it ever occur to you that that person was not telling a lie?  That perhaps he or she was the victim of someone else's lie?  Is it just easier to trash an innocent without bothering to get to the actual truth?

Yeah, this is personal.
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#15 BklnScott

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:18 PM

Oops, wrong thread.

Edited by BklnScott, 21 January 2014 - 02:19 PM.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostNonny, on 21 January 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

For those of you who trash a person over a lie, did it ever occur to you that that person was not telling a lie?  That perhaps he or she was the victim of someone else's lie?  Is it just easier to trash an innocent without bothering to get to the actual truth?

Yeah, this is personal.

Kind of hard to claim it wasn't a lie, when there is video after video after video of him, on different dates, going back years, saying: If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Period. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period."

Kinda of straight forward with what he said. No wiggle room. No playing with words. It was clear what he said. Just as it is clear it was a bold faced lie. Now, despite the clear cut words he used, it hasn't stopped the WH from trying to lie it's way out, with a "Oh what he really meant was...." or the outrageous: "he didn't say that. What he really said was "If you like you healthcare plan, you can keep it....UNLESS"

Nope. Obama is a Liar. plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, any words coming out of his mouth are probably a lie. True, there is the one in a billion chance he might, this time, tell the truth. But I have neither the time, nor the inclination to pick through his words to see what is a lie and what isn't. I've better things to do with my time.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#17 Cait

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:40 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 21 January 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 21 January 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

For those of you who trash a person over a lie, did it ever occur to you that that person was not telling a lie?  That perhaps he or she was the victim of someone else's lie?  Is it just easier to trash an innocent without bothering to get to the actual truth?

Yeah, this is personal.

Kind of hard to claim it wasn't a lie, when there is video after video after video of him, on different dates, going back years, saying: If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Period. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period."

Kinda of straight forward with what he said. No wiggle room. No playing with words. It was clear what he said. Just as it is clear it was a bold faced lie. Now, despite the clear cut words he used, it hasn't stopped the WH from trying to lie it's way out, with a "Oh what he really meant was...." or the outrageous: "he didn't say that. What he really said was "If you like you healthcare plan, you can keep it....UNLESS"

Nope. Obama is a Liar. plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, any words coming out of his mouth are probably a lie. True, there is the one in a billion chance he might, this time, tell the truth. But I have neither the time, nor the inclination to pick through his words to see what is a lie and what isn't. I've better things to do with my time.

Here's the sad truth of this particular political mistake.  Obama never had the power to deliver on that promise. He thought he had the agreement of the Insurance Industry, but when it comes to profits, and doing business, industries often do whatever they like.  Government can only enforce regulations, not how companies are run beyond those regulations.   Obama thought he had a deal.  He didn't.  Another politician gets thrown under a bus by corporate America.  

Unless and until health care and/or health insurance is government run, NO president can make that kind of promise.  Anyone with half a brain could have figured that out the first time he said it.

But, like it or not, politicians make thousands of promises they can never keep.  Voters buy it all the time.  Politicians might even be sincere.  But, none of that changes the facts on the ground.  Obama could not promise that companies outside government reach would not cancel policies.  Use your brains people.  Our politicians are not omnipotent, and they cannot force a company to act without a regulation any more than the President has been able to make Congress do what he wants.

My suggestion, next time around, don't be dazzled by pretty promises that a politician has no authority to make happen.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#18 Nonny

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:06 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 21 January 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 21 January 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

For those of you who trash a person over a lie, did it ever occur to you that that person was not telling a lie?  That perhaps he or she was the victim of someone else's lie?  Is it just easier to trash an innocent without bothering to get to the actual truth?

Yeah, this is personal.

Kind of hard to claim it wasn't a lie, when there is video after video after video of him, on different dates, going back years, saying: If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Period. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period."

Kinda of straight forward with what he said. No wiggle room. No playing with words. It was clear what he said. Just as it is clear it was a bold faced lie. Now, despite the clear cut words he used, it hasn't stopped the WH from trying to lie it's way out, with a "Oh what he really meant was...." or the outrageous: "he didn't say that. What he really said was "If you like you healthcare plan, you can keep it....UNLESS"

Nope. Obama is a Liar. plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, any words coming out of his mouth are probably a lie. True, there is the one in a billion chance he might, this time, tell the truth. But I have neither the time, nor the inclination to pick through his words to see what is a lie and what isn't. I've better things to do with my time.

He said something he believed was true.  Preachers get a pass for that, why not a man with actual good intentions?
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#19 FarscapeOne

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:48 PM

Because preachers believe in something that can't be proven.  Politicians, on the other hand, work with quantifiable facts and figures, meaning it exists.  If you can't be certain you can keep a promise, DON'T MAKE IT!  That is one of my personal cardinal rules I have lived by my entire life, and I have never once broken it because I don't make a promise I am not certain I can keep.

And you would be amazed at far people will go when they see a person with that kind of integrity, and I know this for a fact because there was a situation at my job that I could have been fired on the spot for, but because of my reputation of honesty, I can still pay my bills.  I had a number of people, actually more than I expected or hoped for, who went to bat for me on my behalf.

If politicians would simply get that simple concept, they would have far more support than any ad campaign could muster.  We all know there are things beyond your control... so just say you are not sure it can be done or say we will TRY to get it done.  The second you promise something you know you can't deliver on, you already are lying.

#20 BklnScott

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:16 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 22 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Because preachers believe in something that can't be proven.  Politicians, on the other hand, work with quantifiable facts and figures, meaning it exists.  

In fairness, only SOME of the things preachers believe in can't be proved, i.e., the existence of a deity.  There are many other things that they profess belief in (and indeed, politicize belief in) that have been roundly disproved, i.e., creationism.  Yet they get a pass for trying to pass laws that would force science teachers to teach creationism as though it actually happened.

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