43 replies to this topic

[Raina]

Wow there are Child Nutrition Managers in schools now? That sounds kinda creepy.

Does the whole lunch program thing exist all across the US, or does it depend on the school? I grew up in Canada, and my elementary school never had a lunch program or cafeteria or anything; it was up to the parents to send us to school with lunch.

[Tricia]

As far as I've ever known the schools all have lunch programs here in the US or at least the public ones  do.  

Then there's a free  or reduced cost lunch to help people with lower incomes pay for lunch.  Here in Texas, a lot of schools feed the kids breakfast without any cost to the child or parents every morning since breakfast is very important for fueling the body.
(I think there might be a study around somewhere on the effectiveness of the free breakfast in schools programs but can't find it right now.)


As to that Child Nutrition Manager.....that must be a local or regional thing because while the department over that is called Child Nutrition, the actual head of the school district department here is called the Food Service Director.  Much friendlier sounding IMO




Don't get me wrong folks....I've been known to chew on them up at the school over various things because when it comes to my kids  I can be a mama grizzly.  But I know the persons to whom to unleash my wrath.  

Edited by Tricia, 31 January 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[Godeskian]

NOT siding with ms takes food from children, but this is why everyone should be checking their bank accounts daily (online banking makes it easy) and should track their fixed expenses so that they know when something goes wrong before their kid goes hungry.

For the sake of five minutes a day, you can avoid missing payments because you'll notice when they don't happen.

As for this child nutrition manager, I support her losing her job for gross misconduct.

[Tricia]

^^Actually I deposit money in my kids lunch account this way, online through a link from the school website, LunchMoneyNow.com.  That way I keep track of this expense and know when the balance is low so I can  refill it.

Much different than the early days of raising kids where I had to pay by check and mark it on a calendar THEN keep up with it because there was the odd occasion or two where the cashier tried to tell me that my child ate lunch (and her account billed) when she actually had been absent so she couldn't have been short those three days in her account.

Now the kids just swipe their school ids at the register or punch in their id number and lunch is paid for. Plus lunchmoneynow.com e-mails and texts me when balance is low. ( I still mark it on the calendar because I'm just obsessive that way )

Edited by Tricia, 31 January 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[Themis]

Back in the stone age, I had to pay for my lunch when I got it.  I think it was 65 cents.  So parents just had to make sure the kids had lunch money.   I'm thinking high school and jr. high - I don't remember further back!

Interesting how you all assume the parents have computers at home and e-mail.  I know some reasonably well off people who have neither by choice.  Is it mandatory for people with school-age children?

[Tricia]

It isn't mandatory but it seems to be the norm.  

At least when you look down the sign-in page at each teacher's room and everyone has a e-mail address (or one for each parent sometimes) in that blank. I don't assume that everyone has a computer but it's awfully hard not to assume so when you see that sign in sheet.  Whether they have a computer at home or retrieve their email at the library is another question.

[Godeskian]

Perhaps as importantly, so much of modern industry runs on PC's of some description or another. Emails, online banking and bill payments, job searching, entertainment. All require some form of internet and computer access. When you add to the fact that the vast majority of modern phones double as micro-computers, it is going to be less and less common in the western world to not have computer access.

[Sci-Fi Girl]

I know firsthand what it is like to be denied food as a child at school.  I was the victim of a sadistic teacher, who continually refused to let me eat the lunches my mother sent with me.  She was punishing me for … well for having a learning disability.    (I could understand pretty much anything that was presented to me, I was just unable to perform certain very specific tasks.)  Instead of actually helping me by finding some other way for me to learn the material, she opted to punish me and ridicule me in front of the entire class.

At seven years old, I actually believed that I had done something wrong (why else would something like that happen to me?).  So I was too ashamed to tell my mother when she asked why I hadn't eaten the lunches she sent with me. She only found out when I curled into a ball one day, because I didn't have the strength to sit up anymore (and also wasn't allowed to go the the nurse).

Of course she told the teacher off (I don't know how badly, but I assumed she flipped out).  The teacher defended her actions, and claimed there was nothing wrong with what she had done.  The principal was next, who only defended the teacher "She's the nicest kindest teacher we have, the problem must be with your child."  The teacher merely conceded that she would no longer "withhold food".

Of course the teacher had plenty of other ways to punish me, like not letting me go to the nurse when I had a fever of 102 ºF!    Fortunately by then she had to let me go to lunch, where someone else found me passed out on my lunch box and took me to the nurse.

That year I was very close to checking out of reality completely, as I was given no other way out of that room.

I may have mentioned that I was home-schooled, and now you know why.  Although it wasn't until the following year, when they put me in special-ed with kids who drooled and stuttered, that my father finally gave permission for my mother to take me out of school.

SFG

[Nonny]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SFG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

And I thought the nuns were bad.  

[Sci-Fi Girl]

Thanks Nonny.  (((((((((Nonny)))))))))

At least I have my mother, who is the only person that I have always been able to count on, 100%, no matter what.  Clearly she is the only reason that I am OK.  

SFG

[Mikoto]

Holy moly SFG. Wasn't that like, child abuse? Could your mother not have gone to the cops about it? But I suppose I can't say anything. When I was in high school one of the kids I didn't like (never figured out which one) somehow got ahold of my cell phone number and texted death threats to me. Of course being a teenager I just shrugged, deleted the texts and went on as normal. Fortunately the threats were empty and nothing happened.

[Tricia]

{{{{{{SFG}}}}}}

Not sure why the principal did not at the very least  allow you to transfer classes with a new teacher.  

My son had a first grade teacher who freely admitted to me that she just did not like my child, that they just did not get along at all so I had him transferred to a new class with a new teacher.  He thrived in that new class and the previous teacher could not understand how he went from failing to straight A's. Well, duh...the new teacher cared about and liked him and didn't make him upset all the time.  I was about thisclose to homeschooling him and would have if not for the difference the new teacher found in him.

[Godeskian]

You and your parents are friendlier about it than my dad was. When a physics teacher admitted to him during a parent/teacher conference that he would pass or fail a student based on he liked a child, my dad got him fired.

[FnlPrblm]

SFG   

Miko

Gode, I'm guessing you were taken off the "liked list" after that.

Raina:  All public schools are nationalized education by the federal govt.  So all rules and things are basically applied to all schools under their rule.  I would venture to say, all schools outside possibly some private daycare ones all have a cafeteria.  I'm actually surprised and interested to hear that there are schools of any sort in North America (yes, including Mexico too) that would not have at least the vague room considered a cafeteria for kids to eat.  In fact, here in the U.S., I'd be surprised that any school since the turn of the (20th) century days, where there were schools were still one-room school houses, didn't have a cafeteria.  I hope you don't feel I'm knocking you (or your school) either Raina.  Again, I'm just surprised.  And from what I remember, you don't live in the middle of no where.  You're in a metropolitan area (you've said which one, I'm just repeating it).

Sierra, you're in this thread and have lived across Canada.  Is this a norm or an exception?

To any Canadians, are your schools nationalized like the U.S., where what is taught, how it's taught (basically) and so on, are all stemming from a central core?

[Rhea]

Cait, on 30 January 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Spectacles, on 30 January 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

"childhood nutrition manager" -- God, what an Orwellian term for someone who would do this to children. She should have some sort Dickensian villain's name, like Mrs. Snatchalunch.

But isn't this just an extension of the argument we hear a lot these days, that people need to be shamed into being more responsible? I'm sure that somewhere in America, some self-righteous jerks are applauding Mrs. Snatchalunch. Bootstraps, people! Bootstraps!

See, this is what I think too.

Me three.  Even as little as a cafateria worker makes, I'd have paid for the lunches myself rather than watch those kids go without and perfectly good food thrown into the trash.

I also agree that Ms. Snatchalunch should be fired without a reference in the hopes that she'll never be in a position to do this to another child. Hanging by her thumbs might not be a bad idea, either.

[Tricia]

Remember that there were about 40 kids this happened to that day and school lunches are usually close to if not over $2 per child presuming that they were not on reduced cost lunches.....so not inexpensive to pick up the tab at all.  And I can't blame the workers for not doing so.

BTW with that 'child nutrition manager' no doubt watching to make sure orders were followed, she likely would have been firing the cafeteria workers for trying to pay for those lunches.  

That number of children being denied a meal for non-payment really says something about how poorly managed that lunch program was.

just checked for an update and there was one,sort of but I'm not liking the result--

http://www.universit...30-students.htm

Quote

A Utah school cafeteria manager and a district supervisor have been placed on paid leave while officials investigate whether guidelines about notifying parents were followed.

If this was mentioned before I missed it but I have a bit of a problem with paid leave as any kind of punishment. (no further updates as far as I can find)

And from the previous links in this thread, it sure sounds like guidelines where not followed at all.

There needs to be a different way of doing this without denying children lunch.   So many schools now provide free breakfast (at least here locally) but what do you want to bet that if schools started giving free lunches, some people would then complain about that?

Edited by Tricia, 05 February 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[sierraleone]

FnlPrblm, on 05 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

SFG   

Miko

Gode, I'm guessing you were taken off the "liked list" after that.

Raina:  All public schools are nationalized education by the federal govt.  So all rules and things are basically applied to all schools under their rule.  I would venture to say, all schools outside possibly some private daycare ones all have a cafeteria.  I'm actually surprised and interested to hear that there are schools of any sort in North America (yes, including Mexico too) that would not have at least the vague room considered a cafeteria for kids to eat.  In fact, here in the U.S., I'd be surprised that any school since the turn of the (20th) century days, where there were schools were still one-room school houses, didn't have a cafeteria.  I hope you don't feel I'm knocking you (or your school) either Raina.  Again, I'm just surprised.  And from what I remember, you don't live in the middle of no where.  You're in a metropolitan area (you've said which one, I'm just repeating it).

Sierra, you're in this thread and have lived across Canada.  Is this a norm or an exception?

To any Canadians, are your schools nationalized like the U.S., where what is taught, how it's taught (basically) and so on, are all stemming from a central core?

Did you see me viewing this, because I am pretty sure I hadn't made a comment before now

In my personal experience in elementary school, in two provinces, was that their is no cafeteria and no provided lunch. I have younger siblings like a decade younger. My younger siblings mentioned that breakfast (and lunch?) were available for hungry students. In a separate room, but not an actual cafeteria. They were very careful not to marginalize or point out students in the sense that any student could access and get this food, and they would not discourage kids from accessing this food so that it wasn't as obvious which kids didn't actually need the foods (pigs , growth spurts, forgot/too busy in the morning), and which were actually hungry due to poverty.

My high school experience, which was only in one province, included a cafeteria, with food you could pay for. It wasn't mandatory to pay for and eat. Mostly unhealthy stuff. I usually went home for lunch. I know my younger siblings' high school had a cafeteria too. I wouldn't be surprised if their wasn't some kind of food program at their school but I don't recall for sure. Even if there was I wouldn't know whether it was accessible/from the cafeteria food.

But no, in elementary school no proper cafeteria that can hold a sizeable number of the students at a time.

As for curriculum... I know there is provincial curriculum, but I don't know if that is the end of it or whether there is federal input on this.

I know that in Ontario there are two types of public schools, the regular public schools and the separate roman catholic public schools (which Ontarians mostly call private schools for some reason). Actually four if you include the french version of each of the previous types . I am sure funding comes from various levels of government, but when you are setting up your local taxes (usually property tax) you have to indicate whether the portion allocated to education goes to the regular schools or the catholic schools.

In B.C. there are no catholic schools. They do have French immersion but likely less widely available, being further from Quebec (I could also learn a lot more languages in B.C. than in Ontario, but then I lived in a major metropolitan area in B.C.).

Edited by sierraleone, 05 February 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[Raina]

sierraleone, on 05 February 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

FnlPrblm, on 05 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Raina:  All public schools are nationalized education by the federal govt.  So all rules and things are basically applied to all schools under their rule.  I would venture to say, all schools outside possibly some private daycare ones all have a cafeteria.  I'm actually surprised and interested to hear that there are schools of any sort in North America (yes, including Mexico too) that would not have at least the vague room considered a cafeteria for kids to eat.  In fact, here in the U.S., I'd be surprised that any school since the turn of the (20th) century days, where there were schools were still one-room school houses, didn't have a cafeteria.  I hope you don't feel I'm knocking you (or your school) either Raina.  Again, I'm just surprised.  And from what I remember, you don't live in the middle of no where.  You're in a metropolitan area (you've said which one, I'm just repeating it).

Sierra, you're in this thread and have lived across Canada.  Is this a norm or an exception?

To any Canadians, are your schools nationalized like the U.S., where what is taught, how it's taught (basically) and so on, are all stemming from a central core?

In my personal experience in elementary school, in two provinces, was that their is no cafeteria and no provided lunch. I have younger siblings like a decade younger. My younger siblings mentioned that breakfast (and lunch?) were available for hungry students. In a separate room, but not an actual cafeteria. They were very careful not to marginalize or point out students in the sense that any student could access and get this food, and they would not discourage kids from accessing this food so that it wasn't as obvious which kids didn't actually need the foods (pigs , growth spurts, forgot/too busy in the morning), and which were actually hungry due to poverty.

My high school experience, which was only in one province, included a cafeteria, with food you could pay for. It wasn't mandatory to pay for and eat. Mostly unhealthy stuff. I usually went home for lunch. I know my younger siblings' high school had a cafeteria too. I wouldn't be surprised if their wasn't some kind of food program at their school but I don't recall for sure. Even if there was I wouldn't know whether it was accessible/from the cafeteria food.

But no, in elementary school no proper cafeteria that can hold a sizeable number of the students at a time.

Yeah that was my experience in school too. In elementary school, our parents were responsible for sending us to school with a lunch, and we ate lunch at our desks in the classroom. If we were old enough (I can't remember the age cutoff) and lived really close to the school, we could get permission to go home and eat lunch. I have heard that some lower-income schools do have breakfast and/or lunch programs, but those are all set up by the individual schools and there is no province-wide regulation.

My highschool did have a cafeteria, but it really wasn't big enough to feed the whole school and there was also no formal lunch program. Most of us brought lunches from home, and just ate in the hallways. My school was also fairly close to a lot of fast food outlets, so some students also went and bought fast food for lunch. But I think the norm was for students to just bring their own lunches.

I kinda get the impression that for Canadians, school is just a place where you go and take classes, whereas Americans seem to take it more seriously (what with the schools also providing meals and all). Watching American TV shows, it seems like things that happen outside of the academic classroom setting are much more important than they are in Canada. At least the stereotype is that the captain of the football team and the head cheerleader are celebrities. Whereas when I was in highschool, I couldn`t even tell you who the captains and stars of our sports teams were and I don`t think we even had a cheerleading squad.

In Canada, we have a provincial curriculum, as sierraleone says. As far as I know, other than what subjects have to be taught, most other things (extracurricular activities, lunch and breakfast programs, etc.) are different depending on the district or even depending on the school. When I was in highschool, even within my school district, some highschools used a trimester system (the school year consists of 3 academic terms, and you take each class every other day for all 3 terms), and some schools used a semester system (the school year consists of 2 academic terms, and you take each class every day for one term only). Except for the core subjects, the schools also vary in terms of which courses they offer. We are assigned to schools based on where we live, but in practice, education can vary quite a bit depending on what school you end up going to. For example, some schools offer Calculus as an elective. However, the pre-requisite for Calculus is Math 12. So we could only take Calculus if we either somehow managed to skip a grade somewhere along the way, or if we went to a semester system school (i.e. take Math 12 in term 1, and Calculus in term 2).

As you can see from http://en.wikipedia....ure_by_province, the grade structure is different from province-to-province. The curriculums are also different between provinces. I remember that when I was in highschool, another province was known for having the most difficult Math 12 provincial exams in the country. So for those of us who wanted to get top marks to get into university, our teacher got ahold of some of those provincial exams for us to practice with, since the questions were harder than ours. I have no idea whether the federal government dictates a core national curriculum, or it`s just happy coincidence that the provincial curriculums cover most of the same core topics.

So education in the US is, for the most part, federally controlled?

[Cait]

http://ktla.com/2014.../#axzz2sVKLYjOA

And the true humanity of man rears its head... Along with some brains...  This will restore anyone's faith in humanity.

Quote

Kids in Utah who had their lunches taken away because their accounts were empty inspired one man to make sure it didn't happen at his school.
Kenny Thompson, a tutor at a Houston school, took $465 of his own money and paid off the account balances of 60 kids. "They don't need to be worried about finances," he said. "They need to be worried about what grade they got in spelling."

[Godeskian]

FnlPrblm, on 05 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Gode, I'm guessing you were taken off the "liked list" after that.

Let me put it to you this way, all my final exams were independently audited by teachers from another school because my parents had (as it turned out legitimate) concerns of negative bias on any non-binary exam questions. Basically, where the answer was A/B/C or something like that, my teachers graded me exactly the same as the independently auditing teachers, where they were opinion based, such as essays and 'explain in your own words' kinds of ones, my regular teachers uniformly gave me worse marks than the independents. God bless my dad's paranoid streak