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Executive Orders?

Executive Orders Obama 2014 Constitution Government

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#1 Cait

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:45 PM

Damn, I am in a mood today.  I am sick to death of the cries about Obama exercising the power of the Executive Branch.  I don't like a lot of things about this Administration, but he isn't doing anything that any other President hasn't done to get an agenda accomplished.  Sheesh.  

Read the damn Constitution that you are ranting on about for crying out loud.  3 branches of government, separate but equal.  There are a lot of things that Obama simply never has to ask Congress to approve.  No President has to ask Congress.  The Executive Branch has its own power separate from the other 2 branches.  Just as Congress has its own power separate from the Executive Branch.  Face it, you just don't like that the guy you hate is doing it.  When your guy did it, it was for the good of the nation.  Grow up.

EVERY President since any of us has been alive has used the Executive order privilege liberally [no pun intended].  Obama is no different.  This isn't new news.  It's only the latest petard to blast away at Obama.  It's just politics as usual.  It's NOT a constitutional issue.

[end of rant, and it was directed at no one in particular.  It's just a rant.  Like I said, I'm in a mood today.  :p  ]

http://www.forbes.co...s-a-mere-piker/

Quote

Republicans and conservatives have complained loudly lately that President Obama has been resorting to non-democratic and unconstitutional governance; imperiously ignoring the so-called “will of the people” by issuing a cascade of new executive orders. According to Senator Rand Paul (R-KY), Mr. Obama is acting “like a king” by issuing his recent executive orders on gun control. Conservative author and radio talk show host Mark Levin contends that Obama’s executive orders are “un-American” and even “fascistic.”

If so, then certain Republican presidents – including Dwight Eisenhower, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan – must be classified as even more monarchical, un-American and “fascistic” than Barack Obama. The nearby table shows the number of executive orders issued per year by every U.S. president since 1900.

The average for all twenty presidents is 44 per annum (p.a.), with Democrats averaging 59 p.a. and Republicans averaging 34 p.a. Harry Truman had the highest rate of decree issuance (113 p.a.), while Warren Harding had the lowest rate (just 2 p.a.). So far, Mr. Obama has averaged 37 executive orders p.a., which is below the long-term average of 44 p.a., and lower also than the rate of five GOP presidents – including Gerald Ford (84 p.a.), Dwight Eisenhower (60 p.a.), Richard Nixon (58 p.a.), Ronald Reagan (48 p.a.), and George H.W. Bush (41 p.a.).

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:59 PM

Yes...and No.

Yes, other Presidents have issued EO's. Yes, Obama hasn't issued nearly as many as the others...YET. Give him time, I'm sure he'll beat their records.

And now for the No. No, Obama isn't the same as the others. I don't recall any of the Others stating point blank: "I don't need Congress, I'll do it on my own." Which is what Obama has done. I'm not surprised he's done it, I would've loved to see the entire Congress stand up and walk out when he said he has a pen and phone and yada yada yada. That would've been PRICELESS. And I'm talking both parties should've done it. To send this wannabe dictator a clear message" It isn't his way or the highway.

I'm just hoping for a veto proof GOP sweep of the Senate. That would make Obama a lame duck President, and that is the BEST thing that could happen to this country.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#3 Spectacles

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 07:42 PM

^Right. We need a bunch of crazy people running the entire government instead of just the House. That would be soooo good for the U.S.

Maybe the GOP could finally overturn Obamacare, prying insurance out of the hands of the roughly 3 million people who have been apparently dumb enough to get health insurance.

And maybe they can make abortion illegal in all cases.

And maybe they can gather up all the "illegals" in boxcars and ship 'em back south of the border. (Canadian "illegals" look like Republicans, so no bother.)

And maybe they can re-instate "don't ask don't tell" in the military and finally pass that Constitutional amendment they've long wanted, the one asserting that in the U.S. marriage is only between 1 by-god man and 1 by-god woman.

And maybe they can bomb Iran.

And maybe they can make it a law that teachers must be armed in schools.

And maybe they can open up national parks to drill baby drill.

And so on.

Yeah, by all means let's turn the whole government back over to the GOP. That worked SO well for us during the Bush years.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#4 Spectacles

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 07:44 PM

P.S. I'm glad he's going to use the executive order to do things that MOST non-Republican Americans actually want done. Only the GOP and right-wing propaganda consumers are for obstruction for obstruction's sake.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#5 Cait

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:17 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:



I'm just hoping for a veto proof GOP sweep of the Senate. That would make Obama a lame duck President, and that is the BEST thing that could happen to this country.

No.  It would not be good.  For someone like you, the best scenario would be to leave it the way it is.  Obstructionism is your best friend.  You would not like it with a majority proof GOP Congress, any more than you liked a Democratic one.  I remember the things you had to say back in the days of Bush, and you would not like it.  You don't like anyone having too much power, and that's not a bad position either. :)

All that said, have a little faith.  if Obama steps over the line Constitutionally, with the make up of SCOTUS right now. they will be happy to slap him up side the face, just like they did when Truman overstepped.

Even if Obama had plans to circumvent the Constitution, which I don't believe he does, there is a third branch of government, and they are Conservatives.  Making a lot out of that statement is nothing but rhetoric to jinn up the voters for the mid-terms.  The Republic is not in danger, despite the rantings of Chicken Little.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:42 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 30 January 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

^Right. We need a bunch of crazy people running the entire government instead of just the House. That would be soooo good for the U.S.

Uhm....Isn't that exactly what we currently have? And I'm referring to BOTH sides of the Isle with this.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#7 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:46 PM

View PostCait, on 30 January 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:



I'm just hoping for a veto proof GOP sweep of the Senate. That would make Obama a lame duck President, and that is the BEST thing that could happen to this country.

No.  It would not be good.  For someone like you, the best scenario would be to leave it the way it is.  Obstructionism is your best friend.  You would not like it with a majority proof GOP Congress, any more than you liked a Democratic one.  I remember the things you had to say back in the days of Bush, and you would not like it.  You don't like anyone having too much power, and that's not a bad position either. :)


You're right, I don't like ONE party having complete power. So, while Obama is in office we should have a GOP house and Senate. If a republican wins in 2016, then I'm all for having a Democratic controlled house and senate the following mid term. I'll concede the "veto proof" majority. Not sure I like the idea of the idiots in Congress with unchecked power either; be they democrat or republican.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#8 Elara

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:55 PM

But LotS, when you have a mix of both parties, you manage to keep the true crazy under control.
~edit to say: oops, forgot to check for new posts and you posted saying basically what I just said. :)

Specs is right, if we have a Republican control, I can see women's rights go away, Gays and Lesbians having to hide, people being shot and claims of "Stand your ground" being shouted, etc... There are very few of either party that I like, and even fewer that I feel can be trusted, but right now, I honestly don't feel at all safe to find Republicans in charge.

As for Obama, not seeing him as being the scary bad guy he is being portrayed as. Doesn't mean I like him, or think he is doing the job I'd hoped he'd do, but I don't see him breaking records with Executive orders.

Edited by Elara, 30 January 2014 - 10:57 PM.

El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#9 Cait

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:57 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

  I'll concede the "veto proof" majority. Not sure I like the idea of the idiots in Congress with unchecked power either; be they democrat or republican.

I thought I knew you.  Thanks for responding.  We think we get an impression of a person, and it is always good to find out if we are right or wrong.  :)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#10 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:57 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 30 January 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:


Maybe the GOP could finally overturn Obamacare, prying insurance out of the hands of the roughly 3 million people who have been apparently dumb enough to get health insurance.

And how many Americans have LOST their healthcare plans, and doctors...thanks to Obama committing fraud with his: "If you like your healthcare plan, you keep it. Period. If you like your doctor, you keep him. Period." My GOD, when Big Tobacco committed it's fraud, it was a witch hunt. Where's the witch hunt for Obama's fraud? Oh wait...I forgot, because he's black we can't hold him to the same standard, cause that would then be racist.

Quote

And maybe they can make abortion illegal in all cases.

As far as I'm concerned, what a woman does with her body is her choice. I'm a "man". IMO, no man should tell a woman what to do with her body...at least no smart man would.

Quote

And maybe they can gather up all the "illegals" in boxcars and ship 'em back south of the border. (Canadian "illegals" look like Republicans, so no bother.)

Yeah, instead we should reward the criminals and allow them to stay. Because nothing discourages bad behavior more then encouraging said behavior. It's like giving a slap on the wrist, no jail time, to bank robbers...and you let the bank robbers keep the money they stole. Yeah, they won't rob more banks that way.

Quote

And maybe they can re-instate "don't ask don't tell" in the military and finally pass that Constitutional amendment they've long wanted, the one asserting that in the U.S. marriage is only between 1 by-god man and 1 by-god woman.

Again, what 2 consenting adults do is their own business. None of mine, unless they decide to have their sex on my bed...Which I don't see happening.

Quote

And maybe they can bomb Iran.

Oh can we, pretty please...with sugar on top.

Quote

And maybe they can make it a law that teachers must be armed in schools.

I got to admit...not one of the more smarter ideas here.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#11 Omega

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:17 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

Quote

And maybe they can make abortion illegal in all cases.

As far as I'm concerned, what a woman does with her body is her choice. I'm a "man". IMO, no man should tell a woman what to do with her body...at least no smart man would.

Quote

And maybe they can re-instate "don't ask don't tell" in the military and finally pass that Constitutional amendment they've long wanted, the one asserting that in the U.S. marriage is only between 1 by-god man and 1 by-god woman.

Again, what 2 consenting adults do is their own business. None of mine, unless they decide to have their sex on my bed...Which I don't see happening.

Quote

And maybe they can make it a law that teachers must be armed in schools.

I got to admit...not one of the more smarter ideas here.

So maybe you shouldn't be cheering on a Republican super-majority, then. It appears you have significant issues with the Republican position on some serious issues.

#12 Omega

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:21 AM

x

Edited by Omega, 31 January 2014 - 04:22 AM.


#13 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

View PostOmega, on 31 January 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:


So maybe you shouldn't be cheering on a Republican super-majority, then. It appears you have significant issues with the Republican position on some serious issues.

I don't agree with the GOP on some issues, but they are damn sure better then Spend til your great great great great great grandchildren can't pay back YOUR debt, and are essentially slaves to the foreign countries that own that debt. We keep following the Obama plan and the video below is America's future:


"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#14 BklnScott

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:07 AM

You understand that recent Republican presidents (esp bush43 and Reagan) are responsible for the lion's share of that debt, right?

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

View PostBklnScott, on 31 January 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

You understand that recent Republican presidents (esp bush43 and Reagan) are responsible for the lion's share of that debt, right?

I agree that Bush did run up debt with Iraq...But Obama is running up about the same, and he still has a few years to spend even more. I don't see how Reagan has any part of Obama's debt. Or are you just going to blame all Obama's debt on the past republicans? I suppose the USA having it's credit rating downgraded also isn't Obama's fault? Even though it happened on his watch?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 BklnScott

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

Are you kidding?  The credit rating was lowered over the debt ceiling crisis in 2011 which was caused by who?  If you said House Republicans threatening to default on the full faith and credit of the United States in a brazen attempt to extort the President, you'd be right.  Fast-forward two years and they actually DID shut down the government.  How did that work out for them?

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#17 Spectacles

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:57 PM

Quote

LoTS: I agree that Bush did run up debt with Iraq...But Obama is running up about the same, and he still has a few years to spend even more.

I'm curious: what precisely is he blowing all of this money on?
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#18 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:57 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 31 January 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Are you kidding?  The credit rating was lowered over the debt ceiling crisis in 2011 which was caused by who?  If you said House Republicans threatening to default on the full faith and credit of the United States in a brazen attempt to extort the President, you'd be right.  Fast-forward two years and they actually DID shut down the government.  How did that work out for them?

I guess in your world, Obama can do no wrong. Even when he commits fraud by deliberately lying to the American people, in order to get his healthcare plan steam rolled through Congress. Just curious, what is the color of the sky in your world?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 31 January 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:


I'm curious: what precisely is he blowing all of this money on?

I would love to know the answer to THAT myself. All I know is the national debt was around 10 trillion, or there abouts, when he took office. We are now 17 trillion in the hole, with no end to spending in sight. You know, I actually TRIED the President's approach to debt with my credit card company. My credit card is maxed right now. I called the company up and said: "I can't pay this bill, but I would really like an increase in my credit limit." Do I really need to tell you what their reaction to this was?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#20 Cait

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:10 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 31 January 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Or are you just going to blame all Obama's debt on the past republicans?

You mean the way you are blaming Obama for the ENTIRE debt?  Look, each President has added to the debt, but you are seriously mistaken about modern Republican Presidents.  LotS, you can't just brush off Bush43's spending with one breath and berate Obama and his spending with then other.  If spending is your issue, and the debt is your issue, then your anger should be pointed at ANY president and/or congress that acted like a spendthrift.  

But your anger isn't pointed at all of them, only one of them.  Take a look at that.  It's not the issue is it?  It's his political party.  Partisanship is what has you so angry, not the national debt.  If it were the debt, you would have been angriest at Bush43 because he started two wars on the national credit card and implemented medicare Part D with no revenue stream.  Think about that.  Medicare part D has no revenue stream.  Only the people on medicare pay a monthly premium and it does not cover the cost of drugs at all.  So, when you complain about socialism take a look at that.  But, because Bush did it, you dismiss it, because your anger with Obama is more important than facts.

And once again, I don't even like this President.  But, some of the crap people level at him is just beyond credible, and I hate less than credible arguments.  Why?  Because they obscure the credible ones.  Fight Obama on the real issues, not the imagined ones for crying out loud.

Here's a graph for a little perspective dude...

Attached Files


Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




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