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the mystery of the missing 777 airliner

Disasters Malaysian missing 777 2014

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#21 Nonny

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:40 AM

There's a C-130 out there doing drift modeling.  Could help.
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#22 Spectacles

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:55 AM

Looks like they may have found a debris field in the Indian Ocean. Fingers crossed. Those poor families need some kind of resolution.
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#23 Nonny

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:47 AM

View PostNonny, on 20 March 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

There's a C-130 out there doing drift modeling.  Could help.

View PostSpectacles, on 20 March 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Looks like they may have found a debris field in the Indian Ocean. Fingers crossed. Those poor families need some kind of resolution.
Here's the link I didn't find when I posted earlier.  It came around again two hours later.   :)
Satellite Images Show Potential Debris From Flight 370

http://www.npr.org/2...from-flight-370

Quote

Host David Greene gets the latest from NPR's Frank Langfitt about the potential debris from Malaysia Flight 370 spotted by satellite imagery in the southern Indian Ocean.
Download available now, transcript later.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#24 Spectacles

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:57 AM

Let's hope.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#25 offworlder

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

update on debris field,
http://foxnewsinside...h-malaysian-jet

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#26 offworlder

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:52 PM

and here is more on the search off west of Perth, they got a Norway comercial auto trans ship divert from Melbourne arrived in the area, and Austr P3 and a US Poseidon arrived, but dark fell with rough weather by night, and returned; more will search Fri morning their time;
and here is more on Austr ships going,

http://www.theguardi...is-indian-ocean
>' "We don't know what that satellite saw until we can get a much better, much closer look at it but this is the first tangible breakthrough in what up till now has been an utterly baffling mystery," Abbott said.

But the Australian defence minister, David Johnston, appeared more circumspect. "Expectations will obviously be built. I want to say that let's just be patient and try and find out what this satellite reference is," Johnston told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

"[The southern Indian Ocean] is an extraordinarily remote part of the world … This is a very difficult logistical problem. We're several days away, I think, from really having an idea of the credibility and veracity of this report."

Asked if he thought this was the best lead in the search so far, Johnston said: "Well, there's been several 'best leads' along the way. It's almost a fortnight since this aircraft went off the radar. I think this is a potentially credible sighting that must be investigated but let's just not get our hopes up. There's a lot of debris in the water out there. It's a very long way away.".

Prof Alexander Babanin, director of the Centre for Ocean Engineering, Science and Technology at Swinburne University of Technology in Australia, said that the search was taking place in an area of deep ocean and strong currents, where waves can reach up to six metres in stormy weather.

He noted that floating debris could have been carried 100km away from their position in the satellite photographs, an estimate based on looking at average conditions.

Fragments could be spread over 50km or so, and material suspended beneath the surface could be carried perhaps even further, because ocean currents can be stronger than wave-induced currents, he said.

The search for the Boeing 777 has drawn in assets and expertise from 26 countries. The Royal Australian Navy ship HMAS Success is expected to arrive in the search area within a few days and the Ministry of Defence confirmed that the UK was sending HMS Echo, a coastal survey ship.
'
:harper:

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#27 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:12 PM

http://www.dailykos....n-missing-plane


Seriously!? CNN actually brought a psychic on air to talk about the missing plane? Any chance I had of ever viewing CNN as a credible news source is now gone. Wonder if their psychic foretold that they would become the joke of news media for having her on the air?
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#28 Tricia

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:30 AM

^^Which is why I can't and don't take any cable news networks seriously because not only do they fill those 24 hours of all 'news' all the time with opinions and speculation NOT  really NEWS but stuff like this that is nothing but speculation.   (sorry I've always been a bit of a skeptic when it comes to psychics)

And btw it's actually HLN per the link....which I like even less than most other cable news outlets (Nancy Grace...need I say more?)

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#29 offworlder

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:39 PM

UPDATES

from National Post(and Daily mail and others)

http://news.national...as-no-accident/

' A transcript of conversations between the co-pilot and the control tower, and other air traffic controllers, runs from the time the Boeing 777 was taxiing to its last known position thousands of feet above the South China Sea.

It includes exchanges from a point at which investigators believe the plane had already been sabotaged, as well as the last words of Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27, the co-pilot: “All right, good night.”

Last night analysts said the sequence of messages appeared “perfectly routine.” However two features, they said, stood out as potentially odd.
'
' But it occurred at a crucial moment: it was at 1:07 a.m. that the plane’s Acars signalling device sent its last message before being disabled some time in the next 30 minutes, apparently deliberately. A separate transponder was disabled at 1:21 a.m. but investigators believe the Acars was shut down before Hamid’s final, 1:19 a.m. farewell.
'
' “If I was going to steal the aeroplane, that would be the point I would do it,” said Stephen Buzdygan, a former British Airways pilot who flew 777s.

“There might be a bit of dead space between the air traffic controllers.… It was the only time during the flight they would maybe not have been able to be seen from the ground.”

The fresh details add to speculation over the fate of MH370, whether it was the victim of a sudden accident or a hijacking. The transcript also suggests that if the pilots were involved, they were very careful to hide their true intentions.

Last night, dozens of ships and aircraft continued to search an area off the Australian coast where debris, potentially from MH370, was spotted by a spy satellite earlier this week.

Malaysia has begun contacting the handful of nations with deep sea detection equipment for help in what may... '

:o

PS,
you seen that awesome ship? in that photo there, but see more, do Search on that Hoegh from Norway, and do IMAGES, and freakin SEE that thing, auto carrier ship like container ones but all in one, takes autos Asia/EU - diverted from Melbourne carrier run to help in search off Perth(way way off Perth, it's not like it's right beside)
:o


"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#30 offworlder

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:40 PM

after scouring new evidence-

http://www.bbc.com/n...d-asia-26716572

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26720772

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#31 offworlder

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 11:57 AM

should not they have had... subs down there for the last two weeks, ever since they knew the plane went west, ever since Indian ocean, cruising with that military sonar and audio, best in the world, after that ping box?

how far can you pick up that ping, if it's on land? if it's under hordes of water? it's the fourth, and the thing began Mar 8, so it will go off in days or less even if it's still on.

http://www.thestar.c...underwater.html

' That information, combined with data on the estimated speed and performance of the aircraft, led them to that specific stretch of ocean, Houston said.
Because the U.S. Navy’s pinger locator can pick up black box signals to a depth of 6,100 metres, it should be able to hear the plane’s data recorders even if they are lying in the deepest part of the search zone — about 5,800 metres below the surface. But that’s only if the locator gets within range of the black boxes — a tough task, given the size of the search area and the fact that the pinger locator must be dragged slowly through the water at just 1 to 5 knots, or 1 to 6 miles per hour.
The type of locator being used is a 70-centimetre-long, cylindrical microphone that is towed underwater in a grid pattern behind a ship. It’s attached to about 6,100 metres of cable and is guided through the ocean depths by a yellow, triangular carrier with a shark fin on top. It looks like a stingray and has a wingspan of 1 metre.
Finding floating wreckage is key to narrowing the search area, as officials can then use data on ocean currents to try and backtrack to the spot where the Boeing 777 hit the water — and where the black boxes may be. The devices would provide crucial information about what condition the plane was flying under and any communications or sounds in the cockpit.
But with no wreckage found so far, officials can’t be confident they’re looking for the black boxes in the right place, said Geoff Dell, discipline leader of accident investigation at Central Queensland University in Australia.
“They might be lucky and they might start smack bang right over the top of it,” Dell said. “But my guess is that’s not going to be the case and they’re in for a lengthy search.”
The area where crews are looking for the devices lies within a larger 217,000-square-kilometre search zone that 14 planes and nine ships crisscrossed Friday in the hopes of spotting debris on the ocean surface. The search zone is about 1,700 kilometres northwest of the Australian west coast city of Perth.
'
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#32 offworlder

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

we can only hope? (new signal)

http://www.theguardi...ts-pulse-signal

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#33 243Skunk

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:52 AM

^ Its probably the last hope, from my understanding of how the black boxes work. Its only guaranteed for another day or so, then the batteries start to die. I'm hoping it is the box, just for the famlies.

#34 Anakam

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:20 PM

I've been following this search for a while when I have time.  It's interesting on a lot of fronts: one that's more relevant to OT is the politics.  I'm using politics in a very broad sense here.  One page that tries to stay objectively updated: http://www.avherald....9b/035&opt=1536 .  I also follow this on a BBS specializing in aviation geekery.  After three months, I've nearly lost track of whether all people who may have seen something that night/early morning have had their stories debunked, or what.

The disappearance is disturbing for a lot of reasons.  Crashes, especially of commercial airliners, are exceptionally rare these days.  It's even rarer, and weirder, not to have a specific search area.  The jet type in question has put in a lot of hours without a passenger fatality due to a problem with the aircraft design* (more than can be said of a lot of types), and went a good long while without any passenger fatalities, period.  This seems to favor foul play... but there are arguments for a combination of technical problems too.  It's not easy to explain the jet going silent and then apparently flying for another 7 hours (or so, I forget how long the pings continued).

Anyway, I think the investigators are regrouping and considering things, and moving into a different phase of the search.  I do hope the plane is found eventually--though if it truly impacted in the sea, a lot of things will make that difficult.

*For example, the Boeing 767 thrust reverser deployment in flight, which caused a crash, is what I'd call an aircraft design issue.  And it got rapidly fixed once it was discovered.

#35 Anakam

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:03 PM

Some family members are now offering a reward for information, it looks like.  I think this might be a first.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...money-1.2669285

Excerpt from near the beginning:

Quote

"The official investigation being run by governments and agencies has failed to find the plane, due to either incompetence or obfuscation," the campaign's Indiegogo page reads. "We must work together to ensure the truth is found."

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#36 Mark

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:52 AM

View PostAnakam, on 11 June 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Some family members are now offering a reward for information, it looks like.  I think this might be a first.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...money-1.2669285

Excerpt from near the beginning:

Quote

"The official investigation being run by governments and agencies has failed to find the plane, due to either incompetence or obfuscation," the campaign's Indiegogo page reads. "We must work together to ensure the truth is found."

Mark: This all leads me to think, what if this wasn't an accident?  What if this was accomplished on purpose by someone/s wanting a sophistacted and long-ranged transport plane. Is it possible a rogue country, say like North Korea obtained it to possibly carry out some future plan to deliver a nuke or biological weapon to an enemy country? Even terrorists who may have nuclear devices of some sort at their disposal probably wouldn't have means to deliver such a weapon, unless they had a hijacked, then disquised the Malaysian plane, changing it into a replica of airline's plane. Then given the right circumstances, they'd simply roll the plane into a hanger for supposed inspections, then switching the planes during that time. Then one aircraft (the real one)( would have a doppleganger rolling out of the hanger looking completely normal. It would then be fueled and manned with crew, booked with people to whatever city they've planned to attack. It could even have a legitimate captain and crew at the controls, who know nothing about the possble dangerous cargo hidden well within the bowels of the craft, and only inspected by those who were in on the conspiracy.
Taking off from an international airport, to some distant target land....yet unknown to everyone seeing it, that it was the missing Malaysian plane on a Kamakaze mission. Heck, if done that way, I'd bet they'll sell tickets for the flight on the plane. Everything will look and feel normal...right up to the time the bomb goes off

It would be a great accomplishment for those responsible, and nearly untraceable for international retribution, right?

Then again...if it's at the bottom of the ocean, our searches using today's most modern elecronic finding gear have been woefully inept. The NSA has satellites that can see a dime on the moon...come on people! Find the plane, and stop using those satellites to cover your own backsides!!

They'd better start investigating the ground crews at airports within the Malaysian 777 range from it's last transmission. If this thing didn't crash in the ocean, it's going to be used for no good.

Edited by Mark, 12 June 2014 - 05:25 AM.

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#37 FarscapeOne

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:27 AM

I said a theory virtually identical to yours to my wife when this mystery was still fresh.

Glad to see I'm not alone.

#38 243Skunk

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:37 AM

View PostMark, on 12 June 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

View PostAnakam, on 11 June 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Some family members are now offering a reward for information, it looks like.  I think this might be a first.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...money-1.2669285

Excerpt from near the beginning:

Quote

"The official investigation being run by governments and agencies has failed to find the plane, due to either incompetence or obfuscation," the campaign's Indiegogo page reads. "We must work together to ensure the truth is found."

Mark: This all leads me to think, what if this wasn't an accident?  What if this was accomplished on purpose by someone/s wanting a sophistacted and long-ranged transport plane. Is it possible a rogue country, say like North Korea obtained it to possibly carry out some future plan to deliver a nuke or biological weapon to an enemy country? Even terrorists who may have nuclear devices of some sort at their disposal probably wouldn't have means to deliver such a weapon, unless they had a hijacked, then disquised the Malaysian plane, changing it into a replica of airline's plane. Then given the right circumstances, they'd simply roll the plane into a hanger for supposed inspections, then switching the planes during that time. Then one aircraft (the real one)( would have a doppleganger rolling out of the hanger looking completely normal. It would then be fueled and manned with crew, booked with people to whatever city they've planned to attack. It could even have a legitimate captain and crew at the controls, who know nothing about the possble dangerous cargo hidden well within the bowels of the craft, and only inspected by those who were in on the conspiracy.
Taking off from an international airport, to some distant target land....yet unknown to everyone see it, it was the missing Malaysian plane on a Kamakaze mission. Heck, if done that way, I'd bet they'll sell tickets for flight on the plane. Everything will look and feel normal...right up to the time the bomb goes off

It would be a great accomplishment for those responsible, and nearly untraceable for international retribution, right?

Then again...if it's at the bottom of the ocean, our searches using today's most modern elecronic finding gear have been woefully inept. The NSA has satellites that can see a dime on the moon...come on people! Find the plane, and stop using those satellites to cover your own backsides!!

They'd better start investigating the ground crews at airports within the Malaysian 777 range from it's last transmission. If this thing didn't crash in the ocean, it's going to be used for no good.

Thats a lot of work when you can just stick it in a cargo container and pop it off as it pulls into LA Harbor. You would cripple the U.S. economy a lot better, too.

Occam's Razor most certainly applies.

#39 Mark

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:41 AM

Mark: Perhaps L.A. Harbor wouldn't be their objective. Those cargo container ships get pretty rigorously tested before leaving home-port, and definitely get inspected entering a U.S. port. They use radiological detectors, and x-ray machines to examine contents with suspiscious natures. They also use bomb-detecting dogs. Often times, those cargo containers can be offloaded on trucks, sent to remote destination warehouses for further inspection and off-loading before sending them off through their primary carrier (usually a train, or trucking company.
On the other hand, an unsuspected 777 passenger jet with the right call numbers, identifying transponders, and normal captains and crew, get to fly right into the heart of major cities and urban areas on their approach airports all over the civilized world...with millions of people generally living in the vicinity. For a nice-sized nuclear device (dirty, or not), detonating it at altitude would cause far more widespread damage than detonating one in a ground-based container truck, or a container in a warehouse district of a city.  Those are just my humble opinions, and something we should consider while going forward with any investigation.

Of course...this jet is still most likely sitting at the bottom of the massive ocean floor, and it could be years before it's found there. However, just as a precaution and with some prudent contengency planning, the powers that be need to investigate the possibility the plane is still intact, possibly being repainted, and re-fitted for some sinister purpose as yet unknown. I don't want this Malaysian airliner turning up flying into a U.S. building like those planes did on 9/11/2001. They could fly right over the Capitol building, or worse...detonating some sort of radioactive device over a densly populated and vital area for our U.S. Government...interrupting our leadership for many months to come.

Edited by Mark, 12 June 2014 - 05:48 AM.

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#40 Anakam

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:24 PM

re: cargo containers, I forget what the stats are but in the past I was under the impression that only a small percentage were adequately inspected.

I've certainly wondered about the sort of idea that Mark proposed.  The next thing I do after I think of that is trust that world intelligence agencies will be keeping an eye out for this plane.  One reason I have trouble accepting the swap idea is that even among jets of the same model, there are differences due to maintenance and/or whatever options the receiving airline requested on delivery.  There would be a chance to spot differences before the plane took off.  For example, this particular jet had a wing repair of some kind in its past.  I don't think I would notice, but it's something that could be noticed.  I feel they might have to fool a lot of people in the meantime, too.  Not saying these are foolproof arguments against such a future use of the plane.

BTW, the jet type has had a cockpit fire before, thankfully on the ground.  MH370 couldn't have kept flying and trading 'hello' with the satellites if that happened to them the exact same way, but a bizarre sequence of events there might have left it flyable in the most basic sense.  Then again, a lot of plane crashes are due to bizarre things.

The ocean is huge, I mean huge.  I'm used to thinking about the Earth and I was still surprised by the size of the search area that Bluefin was trying to evaluate.  I forget the exact capabilities of Bluefin and the area it was asked to search, but it was a small fraction of the likely impact zone and I think it took them weeks.  IIRC the likely impact zone is 700 x 80 km--and that includes some assumptions and is just the most recent search area.  I can't imagine the size of the area that's been searched during the whole operation.  I agree it could take a long time--where AF447 impacted was fairly well known and finding the main wreckage of the plane took significant time (~2 years, not sure how much of that is waiting for capable equipment).  I do hope this doesn't turn into another long-term missing commercial flight case--aside from the emotional aspects for those close to it, that makes it harder (impossible?) to prevent in the future.
Sailing free, boundless glimmer, golden whispers, fiery poise, delicate balance, grave and true, bound by earth, feared horizons, courageous steps unknown, shimmering future hidden yet unveiled....

I think you're the first female cast member to *insist* on playing a guy ;) - Iolanthe, on my cross-casting obsession.

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle, this earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, this other Eden, demi-paradise, this fortress built by Nature for herself... - John of Gaunt, Act II, Scene I, Richard II

"I think perhaps that was a sub-optimal phrasing for the maintenance of harmony within the collective." - Omega, here

"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?" - Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy



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