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ExIsle's Rules

June 2014 Board Blowup Staff Response

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#1 Lover of Purple

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:36 PM

These are now the official rules for ExIsle. They are non-negotionable, nothing will be added or removed in order to maintain an enjoyable place to post. They are simple and direct.

Quote

There are some things that absolutely will not be tolerated, including:

Slurs against race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.
Personal swipes, attacks or insults against members or staff (who are also members)
Unbowdlerized swearing
Posting Pornography

If members come across posts that violate the above they should bring it to the attention of the forum mod through the Report function.

Clarification can be asked for, in a respectful manner, in the off-chance that a poster was not aware they were posting against any of the above.

This also will not be tolerated:

Refusal to cooperate with moderators/administrators/board owner
Harassing staff, including continually repeating oneself once an issue has been settled.

Thread boots will remain a moderator tool. In IC it will only be used as described below, where members have been booted from other threads. Mods will try to resolve a situation as quickly as possible, but sometimes may take extra time to get the decision right rather than get it out quickly. Verbal/board warnings will also remain moderator tools. They will be used at their discretion, depending on the severity of the situation. Mods and Admins also have the additional tools of forum-specific boots or boardwide bans to use at their discretion. The Board Owner or three out of four admins have final say in any action taken. Forum suspensions/boardwide bans are not negotiable.

A member will be notified via PM if they have been booted from a thread. They may then reply to that PM and discuss it with the moderator in question. Admins may be added at the discretion of the moderator or the member. Additionally, the booted member may also start a thread in IC if they wish to protest the boot. In this case, only that member and the mods/admins may post in the thread to discuss the boot. Anyone else will be immediately booted from the thread (and their post hidden). The thread will remain open for as long as it takes to discuss, but Staff will attempt to respond as quickly as possible, as it's better for us to get it right than to get it fast.

We will not allow any duplicate threads in IC about any boots, such threads will be immediately locked and appropriate action taken. Only the booted member, as described above, may start one if they wish.

Attacks on staff will not be tolerated and if anyone has a problem with moderator conduct then they are to bring those problems to the admins/board owner through PM, not on the open board.

Moderators will work to finalize their conclusions, with reservations held by the Adminstrators and Board Owner (or three out of four Administrators) as an end result.

Links related to the rules will be updated soon.

LoP

#2 EChatty

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:52 PM

Pinning this to keep it at the top of the forum.

#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:26 AM

So, let me get this right....Only the one booted from a thread now has the right to post questions about it? Nobody else is allowed to even talk about it? So the thread I started in IC, under these rules, would've been censored? Along with the one specs started about my booting? Anyone other then staff or the one booted, will themselves now be booted. So you've essentially turned the thread into a public PM. Members can look but can't voice their own opinion?

Am I correct in my summary of these new rules?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#4 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:31 AM

^ That's how I read them.

SFG
"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing

#5 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:43 AM

But at least in a public PM, everyone can see just how it is being handled.  (For better or for worse.)

SFG
"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing

#6 Tricia

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:55 AM

This is essentially what it was under the former  OT specific  GLs ....except that a thread in IC can be started to appeal the boot where previously it all had to  handled in pm.

I am sure that no one will object if some people still do it by pm though.

And I agree with SFG....at least it can be seen by all even if others can not participate.  For better or worse.

Edited by Tricia, 28 June 2014 - 08:57 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


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#7 EChatty

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:17 AM

That is exactly right. Only the booted member, if they wish, can post a thread in IC to discuss a boot and only that member and staff are allowed to post in that thread. No duplicate threads by any other member will be allowed to be started either.

#8 Elara

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:06 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

So, let me get this right....Only the one booted from a thread now has the right to post questions about it? Nobody else is allowed to even talk about it? So the thread I started in IC, under these rules, would've been censored? Along with the one specs started about my booting? Anyone other then staff or the one booted, will themselves now be booted. So you've essentially turned the thread into a public PM. Members can look but can't voice their own opinion?

Am I correct in my summary of these new rules?

LotS, this actually helps the member that is questioning the boot. I am hoping that this means it will be only one Mod or Admin (with an Admin joining only if needed/requested) in the thread. This one on one allows for clearer discussions. You are paying attention to only one person instead of muddled down and lost in many different posts. This way, your view is being concentrated on instead of many differing views.

However, if this set-up is allowing for many Mods/Admins to join the thread, then that won't be good. Is this a one on one, Staff?

The other good thing is that it will be public. It's out here for everyone to see, so if a member or staff is treated unfairly, there is no hiding it, no lying on either part.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#9 Lover of Purple

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:19 PM

Yes, one on one staff unless an Admin or myself are asked to join in.

LoP

#10 EChatty

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:21 PM

As I understand it, the booted member and moderator may discuss it in the original PM sent to the member, or the member may start a thread in IC. Staff and the booted member are the only ones allowed to post, but Admins will only step in if they need to mediate.

Oops, LoP beat me to it, thanks, Boss :)

#11 Elara

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:25 PM

View PostLover of Purple, on 28 June 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Yes, one on one staff unless an Admin or myself are asked to join in.

LoP

Thanks, LoP. :)

That's perfect. So, LotS, this means it will actually be better for everyone. Honestly. :)
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:01 PM

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 28 June 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

But at least in a public PM, everyone can see just how it is being handled.  (For better or for worse.)

SFG

It sounds great in THEORY! But if members see staff treating a member unfairly, and are unable to post their displeasure or PoV...it's only going to bottle up their rage at being unable to express themselves. Til eventually a straw breaks the camels back and then all hell will break loose.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:08 PM

As an example: Lets say these rules were in effect when Nonny got booted for calling me a racist. She starts a thread in IC about her being booted. Naturally in the course of the discussion my name is going to get mentioned and comments about my comments will be made. If you think I'm just going to sit idly by, think again. And the second you boot me from that thread, you had better just go ahead and ban me. Cause I won't be silenced. And depending on how pissed I get, you better make sure that ban is for my IP address, cause I would keep coming back and back, regardless of whether or not duals were forbidden.

Yes, you would just ban the dual, til another one took it's place. and round and round we go. And all because you forbidded me from a thread that was dealing with me. Do you see my point now about why this isn't going to work???

edited to add: Apologies for using Nonny as an example, but it was the only way to make my point clearly.

Edited by Lord of the Sword, 28 June 2014 - 02:09 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#14 Elara

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:23 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

As an example: Lets say these rules were in effect when Nonny got booted for calling me a racist. She starts a thread in IC about her being booted. Naturally in the course of the discussion my name is going to get mentioned and comments about my comments will be made. If you think I'm just going to sit idly by, think again. And the second you boot me from that thread, you had better just go ahead and ban me. Cause I won't be silenced. And depending on how pissed I get, you better make sure that ban is for my IP address, cause I would keep coming back and back, regardless of whether or not duals were forbidden.

Yes, you would just ban the dual, til another one took it's place. and round and round we go. And all because you forbidded me from a thread that was dealing with me. Do you see my point now about why this isn't going to work???

edited to add: Apologies for using Nonny as an example, but it was the only way to make my point clearly.

What I think is that you can follow the rules and contact someone on Staff or start your own thread. It would seem to me that if you were truly being treated unfairly in a thread between an EI member and a Staff member, that you would then have the right to start your own thread. Because to be truly treated unfairly seems to me to be against the rules, and grounds for your own thread. This would not be piling on, it would be a separate issue. Note, I say "truly being treated unfairly", not "you are annoyed because you've been mentioned". There is a difference.

We are all adults, I think as adults we can take the time to think before going off on something that we think is being said. I'm sorry, but I would much rather be able to speak one on one, it allows me to make my points and it keeps both people in the discussion calm. In a discussion, nothing is ever accomplished when people get angry. Plus, if I feel that I deserve a boot or warning, then I can choose to let it go and peace can remain.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#15 Tricia

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 28 June 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

But at least in a public PM, everyone can see just how it is being handled.  (For better or for worse.)

SFG

It sounds great in THEORY! But if members see staff treating a member unfairly, and are unable to post their displeasure or PoV...it's only going to bottle up their rage at being unable to express themselves. Til eventually a straw breaks the camels back and then all hell will break loose.


And perhaps it will lead to more civil conversations because I think another member (or maybe it was you LotS?)
commented once that you were invited to a pm conversation involving an appeal and were surprised by how vicious it was in the way staff was talked to.

If you can see the conversation, it is all more transparent. Guarantee the conversation will more civil then on both sides then.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#16 Nonny

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

As an example: Lets say these rules were in effect when Nonny got booted for calling me a racist. She starts a thread in IC about her being booted. Naturally in the course of the discussion my name is going to get mentioned and comments about my comments will be made. If you think I'm just going to sit idly by, think again. And the second you boot me from that thread, you had better just go ahead and ban me. Cause I won't be silenced. And depending on how pissed I get, you better make sure that ban is for my IP address, cause I would keep coming back and back, regardless of whether or not duals were forbidden.

Yes, you would just ban the dual, til another one took it's place. and round and round we go. And all because you forbidded me from a thread that was dealing with me. Do you see my point now about why this isn't going to work???

edited to add: Apologies for using Nonny as an example, but it was the only way to make my point clearly.

Not a problem, LotS.  The problem I can see for myself is that I am old and forgetful, and this rule will slip my mind easily.
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#17 Tricia

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:28 PM

^^Then a friend will remind you ;)

Edited by Tricia, 28 June 2014 - 02:29 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#18 yadda yadda

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:48 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

As an example: Lets say these rules were in effect when Nonny got booted for calling me a racist. She starts a thread in IC about her being booted. Naturally in the course of the discussion my name is going to get mentioned and comments about my comments will be made. If you think I'm just going to sit idly by, think again. And the second you boot me from that thread, you had better just go ahead and ban me. Cause I won't be silenced. And depending on how pissed I get, you better make sure that ban is for my IP address, cause I would keep coming back and back, regardless of whether or not duals were forbidden.

Yes, you would just ban the dual, til another one took it's place. and round and round we go. And all because you forbidded me from a thread that was dealing with me. Do you see my point now about why this isn't going to work???

edited to add: Apologies for using Nonny as an example, but it was the only way to make my point clearly.

Gee whiz LoTS, you do like to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'! I don't suppose Michael Myers from the Halloween series, who always kept coming back for more is your favorite screen hero? Or the Terminator? ;) I guess you just can't keep a good man (or cyborg) down...

yadda

Edited by yadda yadda, 28 June 2014 - 04:16 PM.


#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:27 PM

View PostTricia, on 28 June 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:


And perhaps it will lead to more civil conversations because I think another member (or maybe it was you LotS?)
commented once that you were invited to a pm conversation involving an appeal and were surprised by how vicious it was in the way staff was talked to.

If you can see the conversation, it is all more transparent. Guarantee the conversation will more civil then on both sides then.

Good point about that PM, I had forgotten that one. My point here though is that the rules say only the person booted, and the staff, can partake of these threads. But if another member's name gets mentioned in the course of the thread, that other person named should be allowed to respond. But according to the rules laid out here, they can't. Hell, they can't even start a thread if they feel the booting was wrong, they just have to bottle up their feelings, stifle the need to express themselves and their PoV.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the staff are making this rule. They don't want a staff pile on free for all...but those pile on free for alls are already against LoP's rules. Telling members they can't express concern over what they feel about staff actions isn't the answer though.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#20 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:30 PM

Keep in mind, I don't quite know what I think of this rule yet, but I can see pluses and minuses.  But I had some thoughts about this:



View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 June 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Hell, they can't even start a thread if they feel the booting was wrong, they just have to bottle up their feelings, stifle the need to express themselves and their PoV.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the staff are making this rule. They don't want a staff pile on free for all...but those pile on free for alls are already against LoP's rules. Telling members they can't express concern over what they feel about staff actions isn't the answer though.

You could express yourself by PM, to any number of people.  You could talk to friends about the issue by PM, to talk it through and get other perspectives.  You could talk directly to the person you would like to defend, both as moral support and to provide them with another perspective.  I honestly don't know whether you could PM staff about someone else's problem though.

But I have done most of these things anyway, and will certainly continue.  You can invite up to 10 people to a PM.  So you're not completely silenced in these situations.

Again, I'm still thinking out how this whole thing will work, these are just some of my thoughts.  :)

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 28 June 2014 - 08:32 PM.

"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing



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