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Once Upon A Time: Breaking Glass

Once Upon a Time Once Upon a Time: Season 4 Frozen

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#1 DWF

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:24 PM

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Quote

Regina and Emma team up to look for the Snow Queen,

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#2 DWF

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:09 PM

I loved the Thor reference seeing as how Josh Dallas was the orignal Fandral and I liked Ilsa's ice bridge. I also liked it that Emma won't give up on trying to be Regina's friend. But what I'm really curious about is Lily and who she might really be.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

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#3 Godeskian

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 01:59 PM

I did not see that coming.... Actually, the moment the tape continued playing I assumed something momentous was going to happen, but I still did NOT see that coming.

I keep forgetting Josh Dallas was in Thor, and I'll be honest, after two episodes of doing very little it's nice to see Elsa actually doing something again, but I still feel like the Frozen/Snow Queen plot is meandering at a very slow and inconsistent pace. From what we've seen so far at least, I don't think the two plots (the Snow Queen and Emma versus The mystery of Elsa's imprisonment and Anna's disappearance) fit together very well.

And like you DWF, I can't shake the notion that they wouldn't have introduced a new character like Lilly just for a one off, not in quite so pivotal a way and with a birthmark like that. I don't have a clue what that relationship might be mind you, but since the Snow Queen or someone in her employ can wipe minds, I suppose it could be almost anyone.

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#4 sierraleone

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 06:42 PM

The timing on everything seems rather tight. 16 years ago they gave for the Emma flashback right?

Emma was born (or rather transported as a new-born to our world) in 1983 right? It was her 28th b-day when the show premiered (the show premiered fall of 2010, so was I'll go with really early 2011). Henry was 10 when the show starts, so he was born 2000 to early 2001.

It seems hard to imagine 3 to 4 years has passed since the show started, in-story. Over a year has, simple because of flying monkeys/Zelena story-line. Maybe another year outside of that, *maybe* 2? So is it suppose to be 1997 or 1998 in the flashback? The first Harry Potter book had just come out the summer of 1997 in the UK, didn't come out in the U.S. until the fall of 1998.

It didn't become a best-selling until summer of 1999, so would have become well-known around then. But that would mean that it is 2015 in-story, and at least 4 years have passed in-story since the premier. That seems like a lot. Either 3 years outside of the year-of-the-flying-monkeys/Zelena, or it was longer than a year that Emma/Henry lived in NY. And that would leave barely anytime at all between the rise and fall of Emma's friendship with Lily and meeting Neal/Baelfire and conceiving Henry. At most seven months. The time between is certainly plausible, but I am not sure how plausible 2.5 years of time in-story between the premier and now, outside of the-year-of-the-flying-monkeys :)

Overanalyzing again ;) Probably easier to assume that the story-writers mean the 16 years ago to co-incide with Harry Potter's first book being released (UK or US) despite that it took a year or two to become better known.

Did they use the same teen actress to play teen Emma as they did in the short scene that showed Emma watching her foster-sister be adopted some time-ago? I am just curious. I think it is, but I can't recall.

Edited for faulty math

Edited by sierraleone, 27 October 2014 - 06:51 PM.

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Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#5 Tricia

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM

I had heard a rumor as to how the Snow Queen and Emma knew each other and doubted it....but it's true. Somehow.

Concerning Lily.....I think she will be back and is important.  But I'm thinking that we should remember that her adopted dad called her "Lilith".  Not sure what the significance of the name and the star shaped birthmark are yet....have tried a google search on both Lilith and Lily and star shaped birthmark but most results lead back to OUaT!

btw Lily is played by Defiance's Nicole Munoz who plays Christie Tarr on that show.

per imdb, the actress who played teen Emma also played her in the episode Snow Drifts

Edited by Tricia, 27 October 2014 - 06:54 PM.

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#6 DWF

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 08:04 PM

View PostTricia, on 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

I had heard a rumor as to how the Snow Queen and Emma knew each other and doubted it....but it's true. Somehow.

Concerning Lily.....I think she will be back and is important.  But I'm thinking that we should remember that her adopted dad called her "Lilith".  Not sure what the significance of the name and the star shaped birthmark are yet....have tried a google search on both Lilith and Lily and star shaped birthmark but most results lead back to OUaT!

You should check out the Wikipedia article on Lillith then.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#7 sierraleone

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 08:53 PM

View PostDWF, on 27 October 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

View PostTricia, on 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Concerning Lily.....I think she will be back and is important.  But I'm thinking that we should remember that her adopted dad called her "Lilith".  Not sure what the significance of the name and the star shaped birthmark are yet....have tried a google search on both Lilith and Lily and star shaped birthmark but most results lead back to OUaT!

You should check out the Wikipedia article on Lillith then.

Do you mean the Judeo-Christain Lillith? It is hard to imagine them trying to shoe-horn a meaty character into a 90s teenager? Is there some association between Lillith and stars? I know that she is used in Wiccan mysticism some and stars = pentagrams, but that seems like a stretch.

I would rather, if they revisit this Lily/Lillith, that they create a new character, and/or shoe-horn her into some other disney/fairytale character. Even if it makes the family tree more confusing. The idea of making a sulky modern teenager teenager be the Judeo-Christian Lillith seems a hard sell ;)

Though having her be there so Emma has a video of Snow Queen Froster Mom seems a waste. Would not a picture suffice? I assume they were trying to make a connection between Lily and Emma's broken relationship and Emma and Regina's, but still seems a waste.

I actually want to see Lily again, but I am afraid of the ball being dropped, as so many characters are on this show. If Lily doesn't end up being a big bad (which I don't want, too predictable), then what happens to Lily when her story concludes?

If they plan on following up on Lily I wonder how she'll be connected to the show. Regular person unrelated to FTL would never do for this show ;) Especially with a past with potential for mystery origins, since she was adopted. Of course, they do risk making her story very similar to Emma's.

I hope she isn't Tiger-Lily, the only 'fairytale' person I can think of with a similar name (assuming they use the name as a clue). You would think Hook would have recognized her, but there is plenty of wriggle room for them not to be in Never Land at the same time and/or to have not come across each other on the Island.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#8 DWF

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:03 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 27 October 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostDWF, on 27 October 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

View PostTricia, on 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Concerning Lily.....I think she will be back and is important.  But I'm thinking that we should remember that her adopted dad called her "Lilith".  Not sure what the significance of the name and the star shaped birthmark are yet....have tried a google search on both Lilith and Lily and star shaped birthmark but most results lead back to OUaT!

You should check out the Wikipedia article on Lillith then.

Do you mean the Judeo-Christain Lillith? It is hard to imagine them trying to shoe-horn a meaty character into a 90s teenager? Is there some association between Lillith and stars? I know that she is used in Wiccan mysticism some and stars = pentagrams, but that seems like a stretch.

I would rather, if they revisit this Lily/Lillith, that they create a new character, and/or shoe-horn her into some other disney/fairytale character. Even if it makes the family tree more confusing. The idea of making a sulky modern teenager teenager be the Judeo-Christian Lillith seems a hard sell ;)


Lily won't be a teenager by this time she'd be as old as Emma and somehow I do figure she'll be back.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#9 sierraleone

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:17 PM

View PostDWF, on 27 October 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Lily won't be a teenager by this time she'd be as old as Emma and somehow I do figure she'll be back.

Oh I figured she'd age as Emma did, but I still don't see the Judeo-Christian Lillith being well-grafted onto a character under 1000 years old ;)

Funny how she wishes she was special like Harry Potter and she shares Harry Potter's mother's name :)

Edited by sierraleone, 27 October 2014 - 09:17 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#10 DWF

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:37 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 27 October 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostDWF, on 27 October 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Lily won't be a teenager by this time she'd be as old as Emma and somehow I do figure she'll be back.

Oh I figured she'd age as Emma did, but I still don't see the Judeo-Christian Lillith being well-grafted onto a character under 1000 years old ;)

Funny how she wishes she was special like Harry Potter and she shares Harry Potter's mother's name :)

That would be the Harry Potter connection then, but I doubt if she's a mere muggle. ;)
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#11 Cardie

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:39 PM

Just as long as we don't discover that Regina had a baby she thought had died--that would be too much soap opera even for OUaT. I had figured that Snow Queen could only know Emma in our world as she grew up but couldn't square that with Emma not recognizing her.  I forgot how easy it is for those with magic to erase memories on this show.
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#12 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:47 AM

The flashback didn't say "16 years ago", it specifically said "1998".

So I'm not sure exactly what year the present day is supposed to be, or how much time has passed.  But the flashback was definitely 1998.  :)

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 28 October 2014 - 11:48 AM.

"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

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#13 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 08:53 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 27 October 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Funny how she wishes she was special like Harry Potter and she shares Harry Potter's mother's name :)

Very interesting!  And she was of course a muggle born witch.  :)  :think:

SFG
"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing

#14 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 09:02 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 27 October 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

I hope she isn't Tiger-Lily, the only 'fairytale' person I can think of with a similar name (assuming they use the name as a clue). You would think Hook would have recognized her, but there is plenty of wriggle room for them not to be in Never Land at the same time and/or to have not come across each other on the Island.

I don't expect that to happen, but it's particularly interesting given that the actress plays Graham Greene's daughter on Defiance!  :cool:

Some other theories from other forums:

1) Maybe Lily is the daughter of a fairy, either the Blue Fairy or the Black Fairy.  Because of the star on her wrist.
2) Or, maybe she is the daughter of the sorcerer, because of the stars in the hat!

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 29 October 2014 - 09:03 AM.

"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing



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