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Agents of SHIELD: One Door Closes

Agents of SHIELD Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Marvels Agents of SHIELD Marvel TV

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#1 G-man

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:14 AM

I'm still not sold on Alt-SHIELD being as benevolent as they claim.

And while Gonzales might have justifications lined up, I'm glad Coulson called him on his BS.  Especially given that Coulson had attempted to reach out to him, and he responded by 1) concealing his existance (though, how, is still open to question as a Carrier is a substantial military asset that everyone, and their brother, would be tracking; and would require substantial logistical support to remain out at sea); 2) inserting his own agents in to spy on Coulson & co. (not just gather intelligence, but perform espionage); and 3) using force to establish his superiority before he even begins to consider opening a dialog.

OTOH, I'm glad to see that Coulson was hip to Mack's sketchy behavior; Simmons being able to take out Bobbi; May managing to twig onto what was happening; Mack actually trying to save Fitz from the break in; and then Skye's ... ummm ... shockwave(?) that knocked Bobbi and the other Alt-SHIELD guy back, as well as her being able to go toe-to-tow mano-a-mano with the Alt-SHIELD Stormtrooper guy; and also that they were incapable of holding onto either Coulson or his blackbox.
______________________________________

As near as I can figure, on the day that SHIELD fell, there was a major battle for control of the SHIELD Carrier (did they bother naming that ship?).  While initially HYDRA, outnumbering the SHIELD guys 3:1 (really?), had managed to gain the advantage, the SHIELD guys managed to establish some bastions of resistance and managed to retake the ship.  

Fitz-Simmons old science instructor apparently managed to go toe-to-toe with an "enhanced" to protect her charges when Gonzales gang came to the rescue, so she ended up with him.

I'm guessing that this occurred when Coulson essentially went on the lam, to keep himself and SHIELD out of Talbot's hands, and put a krimp in Garrett's plans.  Which suggests that Gonzales actually beat Coulson to the punch in trying to consolidate former SHIELD assets to reconstitute the organization.
______________________________________

Skye, left behind in the House that Banner built, is approached by the teleporting Gordan, who has a sitdown chat with her.  He talks about himself, how he was treated after he was transformed, and discussed just what the nature of Skye's power is.  Though, I confess, the last seemed to have quite the deductive leap, given what Skye was saying to him, for him to suggest that she was in tune with the vibrations of the universe.  I do like the idea that once she had a notion of just what it was she was doing, she could begin to master her abilities, as opposed to letting them master her.  Anyhow, he left, leaving her the option to decide whether she'd want to join them or remain where she was ... totally different from Alt-SHIELD's approach.

It was good to see Bobbi and May go at it, especially the fact that the whole argument "I'm with the 'real' SHIELD" proves to be not very convincing to the people that she is actively betraying.  Then also the ease by which May ICE'd Gonzales, freed Coulson and reclaimed Fury's toolbox was a joy to see.

On the Fitz-Simmons front, I think Fitz actually had a better idea of what Simmons was doing with Skye (the Science Project) than Simmons did.  And that the gear that Simmons designed to help Skye was more to suppress her powers than simply to heal her.  OTOH, given that no one had a clue just what it was that Skye was doing, save cause quakes when distressed, I really cannot fault Simmons' approach as, I can understand the desire to be completely safe while trying to comprehend what is happening, versus simply observing under more hazardous conditions.

I did like that Hunter did manage to elude the Alt-SHIELD group and link up with Coulson, signing on to Coulson's team.  And I choose believe that was because Coulson dealt with him up front and allowed him to make his own decision, without resorting to subterfuge or coercion.

Ultimately, this leaves May and Fitz-Simmons with Alt-SHIELD, with Bobbi and Mack still somewhat on the fence about what happened, and Coulson is in the wind with Hunter.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 01 April 2015 - 11:00 AM.

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Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
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#2 Christopher

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 10:20 AM

View PostG-man, on 01 April 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

As near as I can figure, on the day that SHIELD fell, there was a major battle for control of the SHIELD Carrier (did they bother naming that ship?).

The Iliad, I gathered.

Quote

  While initially HYDRA, outnumbering the SHIELD guys 3:1 (really?),

On that particular carrier, but not necessarily everywhere. I think the figure stated before was that maybe half of SHIELD was HYDRA, but they would've concentrated their assets more in some places than others. For instance, pretty much the entire crews of the Project Insight helicarriers were HYDRA.


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Skye, left behind in the House that Banner built, is approached by an Inhuman (I forget his name)

Gordon.


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Though, I confess, the last seemed to have quite the deductive leap, given what Skye was saying to him, for him to suggest that she was in tune with the vibrations of the universe.

Even though each Inhuman has different powers, they presumably have common underlying physics and genetics, so there would be some recurring elements that would let him deduce how her powers worked.



Quote

  I do like the idea that once she had a notion of just what it was she was doing, she could begin to master her abilities, as opposed to letting them master her.  Anyhow, he left, leaving her the option to decide whether she'd want to join them or remain where she was ... totally different from Alt-SHIELD's approach.

I wouldn't say it's totally different, since Gonzales and Weaver do want to give Coulson's teammates a chance to decide to come around. Although, granted, I doubt they'll just walk away if the answer is no.


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It was good to see Bobbi and May go at it, especially the fact that the whole argument "I'm with the 'real' SHIELD" is not very convincing to the people that she is actively betraying.

I thought the flashbacks did a great job of proving that Bobbi is anything but the bad guy here. If anything, I think she's got the noblest motives of anyone around. And I think we're seeing the seeds planted for Bobbi having second thoughts about her allegiance to Gonzales's team, certainly when it comes to Calderon's xenophobic reactions and his defiance of her ICER-only orders.

What's cool about this conflict is that both sides are actually right. They both believe SHIELD needs to be reformed and reinvented into something better and more moral, but they're going about it in different ways and making different mistakes. Gonzales has a point about the dangerous powers and alien elements that Coulson's team has been playing around with; yet on the other hand, he and Calderon are too paranoid about those powers, seeing only the potential for harm and not for good.

I think eventually the two sides will have to arrive at some sort of rapprochement and merge back into a single SHIELD. We're already seeing signs of that with Weaver, Mack, and Fitz-Simmons.
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#3 G-man

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 11:10 AM

View PostChristopher, on 01 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

View PostG-man, on 01 April 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

As near as I can figure, on the day that SHIELD fell, there was a major battle for control of the SHIELD Carrier (did they bother naming that ship?).

The Iliad, I gathered.

Quote

  While initially HYDRA, outnumbering the SHIELD guys 3:1 (really?),

On that particular carrier, but not necessarily everywhere. I think the figure stated before was that maybe half of SHIELD was HYDRA, but they would've concentrated their assets more in some places than others. For instance, pretty much the entire crews of the Project Insight helicarriers were HYDRA.

Well, my issue is not so much about the ratio of HYDRA to SHIELD, but rather with the notion that a smaller force can overcome an alert, active, and larger force of people who are equally well-equipped, trained, and dedicated.  History and tactics argue against such an occurance.

Normally, the smaller force would only be successful if they caught the larger force totally by surprise, and managed to shock them into surrendering; alternatively, the smaller force is triumphant only in preserving a defensive position until the other side gives up, or help arrives.

Had HYDRA personnel only made up one-quarter of the crew, then, yes, I could see how a dedicated majority who, once they got over the shock of the betrayal, rallied to retake the ship, even as other groups fought to contain HYDRA's advances. But, given the disparity of forces, as stated, without any outside reinforcements coming in to render assistance, I am inclined to say that their achievement, as depicted, is "unbelievable".

I'll simply attribute it to characters misspeaking while under great stress.

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It was good to see Bobbi and May go at it, especially the fact that the whole argument "I'm with the 'real' SHIELD" is not very convincing to the people that she is actively betraying.

I thought the flashbacks did a great job of proving that Bobbi is anything but the bad guy here. If anything, I think she's got the noblest motives of anyone around. And I think we're seeing the seeds planted for Bobbi having second thoughts about her allegiance to Gonzales's team, certainly when it comes to Calderon's xenophobic reactions and his defiance of her ICER-only orders.

What's cool about this conflict is that both sides are actually right. They both believe SHIELD needs to be reformed and reinvented into something better and more moral, but they're going about it in different ways and making different mistakes. Gonzales has a point about the dangerous powers and alien elements that Coulson's team has been playing around with; yet on the other hand, he and Calderon are too paranoid about those powers, seeing only the potential for harm and not for good.

I think eventually the two sides will have to arrive at some sort of rapprochement and merge back into a single SHIELD. We're already seeing signs of that with Weaver, Mack, and Fitz-Simmons.

I think that they might settle down to having a guarded relationship with each other, much like Coulson has with Talbot.  This would not only facilitate them cooperating on some missions, but also to working at cross-purposes on others ... thus allowing plenty of dramatic tension to remain from this set up.  Somehow, I cannot believe that Gonzales will accept Coulson as his leader; nor vice versa.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#4 BklnScott

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 11:39 AM

I think this was the best episode they've done - though I've found myself thinking that during quite a few episodes this season. I really couldn't be happier with the show.

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#5 Christopher

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 12:30 PM

View PostG-man, on 01 April 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Had HYDRA personnel only made up one-quarter of the crew, then, yes, I could see how a dedicated majority who, once they got over the shock of the betrayal, rallied to retake the ship, even as other groups fought to contain HYDRA's advances. But, given the disparity of forces, as stated, without any outside reinforcements coming in to render assistance, I am inclined to say that their achievement, as depicted, is "unbelievable".

I'll simply attribute it to characters misspeaking while under great stress.

Then you'd have to dismiss most of fiction as a misstatement. Fiction is full of stories about heroes who prevail against what should be impossible odds. That's what makes them heroes -- because they're extraordinary. So citing what would conventionally be expected makes no sense. The whole point is that the characters are exceptional. That's why we're watching/reading stories about them instead of more ordinary people.


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I think that they might settle down to having a guarded relationship with each other, much like Coulson has with Talbot.  This would not only facilitate them cooperating on some missions, but also to working at cross-purposes on others ... thus allowing plenty of dramatic tension to remain from this set up.  Somehow, I cannot believe that Gonzales will accept Coulson as his leader; nor vice versa.

I rather like Bobbi's suggestion that it should be a democracy. Not a bunch of people blindly following one guy's orders, but a team that arrives at its decisions together. Might be tricky in practice, though.
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#6 G-man

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 02:11 PM

View PostChristopher, on 01 April 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

View PostG-man, on 01 April 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Had HYDRA personnel only made up one-quarter of the crew, then, yes, I could see how a dedicated majority who, once they got over the shock of the betrayal, rallied to retake the ship, even as other groups fought to contain HYDRA's advances. But, given the disparity of forces, as stated, without any outside reinforcements coming in to render assistance, I am inclined to say that their achievement, as depicted, is "unbelievable".

I'll simply attribute it to characters misspeaking while under great stress.

Then you'd have to dismiss most of fiction as a misstatement. Fiction is full of stories about heroes who prevail against what should be impossible odds. That's what makes them heroes -- because they're extraordinary. So citing what would conventionally be expected makes no sense. The whole point is that the characters are exceptional. That's why we're watching/reading stories about them instead of more ordinary people.

True.  But fiction is full of stories that endeavor to explain HOW the heroes triumphed over impossible odds, as opposed to simply stating that they did -- since it is the struggle that makes the story.  Admittedly, this episode was more about the origins of Alt-SHIELD than about the Battle for SHIELD-Carrier Iliad.

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Quote

I think that they might settle down to having a guarded relationship with each other, much like Coulson has with Talbot.  This would not only facilitate them cooperating on some missions, but also to working at cross-purposes on others ... thus allowing plenty of dramatic tension to remain from this set up.  Somehow, I cannot believe that Gonzales will accept Coulson as his leader; nor vice versa.

I rather like Bobbi's suggestion that it should be a democracy. Not a bunch of people blindly following one guy's orders, but a team that arrives at its decisions together. Might be tricky in practice, though.

Indeed.

Who gets to have a say in the decision? Is it everyone, including support staff, students, and dependents? Is it just an inner circle who gets the vote? Must everyone be present in order to have a vote?  And are votes delayed until such time as everyone can vote?

And then, how often must a vote be taken? Is it for every decision no matter how trivial, or are votes reserved solely for those decisions regarding a proposed operation? And what if circumstances show that given decision was wrong, does that mean another vote must be taken to rescind the results of the first vote?

Finally, how long do you allow deliberation to go on before taking a vote? And once the vote is taken, does that settle the issue, or can the issue be constantly revisited by those who disagree with how the vote turned out?

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#7 RJDiogenes

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:26 PM

I think that SHIELD, in any incarnation, will be a military organization and therefore there will have to be someone who has the final say.  But input from all concerned should be valued.  Any good leader will listen to advice and weigh it before making a decision.

Three things I loved about this episode:  Simmons taking down Bobbie, using smarts over gymnastics, the final scene with Hunter, accepting Coulson's offer, and Mack saving Fitz from the explosion-- I really don't want Mack to be a bad guy.

The flashbacks to the HYDRA uprising were interesting.  They made sure to emphasize the heroism of all the "real SHIELD" characters, and to make it clear that they also want a new kind of SHIELD.  However, their commando tactics against their fellow agents were not very honorable, and we learned that Coulson has been trying to track down Gonzalez all these months; so Gonzalez has been deliberately avoiding any sort of meeting with Coulson in favor of a military confrontation.

Looks like we'll be getting some serious Inhuman action next week.  I'm sure they'll be saving the Royal Family for the movie, though.

View PostBklnScott, on 01 April 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

I think this was the best episode they've done - though I've found myself thinking that during quite a few episodes this season. I really couldn't be happier with the show.  
This "real" SHIELD thing is a bit too reminiscent of my least-favorite episodes, but at least this time everyone is in character and it doesn't feel like anything is being forced.
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#8 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 10:23 AM

I'm liking Gordon more and more.  He's really cool.  :cool:  (Although his invitation could have been mistaken for a recruitment speech for "Xavier's school for gifted youngsters" :hehe: )

I think Bobbi is finally realizing that she can't trust the people she's working with.  They lied to her, using real bullets to hunt Skye.  And that guy tried to shoot Skye when she was unarmed and clearly surrendering! :mad:

It was interesting seeing the background on how the "real-shield" came together.  Though Gonzales' speech to Coulson made no sense.  "I made a wrong decision that day, and I'm glad I wasn't in charge.  Therefore I should be in charge."  Whaaa???  *blinks*

I have a theory about Gonzales.  When Bobbi showed up, she had direct orders from Fury, complete with an order number, and this proved that she was not Hydra.  And she was ordered to SAVE Gonzales.  But did she have any way of checking whether Gonzales was not Hydra???  Because I don't see anything proving he's not.  All the good people working for him believe that he is the real SHIELD, but he might not be SHIELD at all! :o

And good seeing Xena again, if briefly.  (Whatever she's called here. ;) )

Very touching to see Fitzsimmons getting closer again, but I'm a little worried about Simmons.  She's got her school mentor back now.  And this group's attitude seems to be that "all specials are monsters and must be stopped", which is kind of where Simmons is right now.  And her thinking is rather muddled by grief.  I'm afraid she might be vulnerable to manipulation if they try to turn her.

I really hope I'm wrong.  :(

SFG
"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

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#9 Christopher

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 10:35 AM

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 02 April 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

I think Bobbi is finally realizing that she can't trust the people she's working with.  They lied to her, using real bullets to hunt Skye.  And that guy tried to shoot Skye when she was unarmed and clearly surrendering! :mad:

I think Calderon is the exception, not the rule. After all, Gonzales's people took care to use no lethal force in taking the base. The group seems to consist mainly of people we like and who like Coulson's team (Bobbi, Mack, Weaver), plus one total jerk (Calderon) and one who seems to be in a gray area in between (Gonzales).


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Though Gonzales' speech to Coulson made no sense.  "I made a wrong decision that day, and I'm glad I wasn't in charge.  Therefore I should be in charge."  Whaaa???  *blinks*

Makes perfect sense to me. I'd trust someone who's learned from his mistakes and is determined to avoid repeating them more than I'd trust someone who's never admitted a mistake.


Quote

I have a theory about Gonzales.  When Bobbi showed up, she had direct orders from Fury, complete with an order number, and this proved that she was not Hydra.  And she was ordered to SAVE Gonzales.  But did she have any way of checking whether Gonzales was not Hydra???  Because I don't see anything proving he's not.  All the good people working for him believe that he is the real SHIELD, but he might not be SHIELD at all! :o

No way. We've already had a conflict about HYDRA. I don't believe the show's writers are so lazy or unimaginative as to fall back on that again.

Edited by Christopher, 02 April 2015 - 10:36 AM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#10 RJDiogenes

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:46 PM

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 02 April 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

I have a theory about Gonzales.  When Bobbi showed up, she had direct orders from Fury, complete with an order number, and this proved that she was not Hydra.  And she was ordered to SAVE Gonzales.  But did she have any way of checking whether Gonzales was not Hydra???  Because I don't see anything proving he's not.  All the good people working for him believe that he is the real SHIELD, but he might not be SHIELD at all! :o  
I remembered something else I meant to mention:  When Coulson was reciting Gonzalez' dossier, he mentioned that he had left SHIELD for a while and then returned with a vengeance. That has to mean something. Does it mean that he was recruited by HYDRA during that time?  I don't know.  :unsure:
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#11 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:55 PM

^ I thought it was something like he left when his wife was sick, and then returned with a vengeance after she died? Or something.

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 02 April 2015 - 05:56 PM.

"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

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#12 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:16 PM

View PostRJDiogenes, on 02 April 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 02 April 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

I have a theory about Gonzales.  When Bobbi showed up, she had direct orders from Fury, complete with an order number, and this proved that she was not Hydra.  And she was ordered to SAVE Gonzales.  But did she have any way of checking whether Gonzales was not Hydra???  Because I don't see anything proving he's not.  All the good people working for him believe that he is the real SHIELD, but he might not be SHIELD at all! :o  
I remembered something else I meant to mention:  When Coulson was reciting Gonzalez' dossier, he mentioned that he had left SHIELD for a while and then returned with a vengeance. That has to mean something. Does it mean that he was recruited by HYDRA during that time?  I don't know.  :unsure:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 02 April 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

^ I thought it was something like he left when his wife was sick, and then returned with a vengeance after she died? Or something.

SFG

And yet, they did go out of their way to mention it, so it doesn't mean nothing...

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 02 April 2015 - 06:17 PM.

"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

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#13 Christopher

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:39 PM

"Returned with a vengeance" doesn't have to mean something bad. It could mean that he came back with a renewed, intense commitment to SHIELD's principles. Or that he was really dedicated and ambitious and made a real mark on the organization in a brief period of time.

Edited by Christopher, 02 April 2015 - 06:40 PM.

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#14 RJDiogenes

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 07:30 PM

Yes, Christopher, we know how to speak English, thank you.  The very simple and obvious point is that they went out of their way to drop this bit of information, so it's less likely to be random and more likely to be foreshadowing.
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#15 G-man

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:30 AM

Yeah, the whole "returned with a vengeance" just struck me as him devoting himself and all his energies to SHIELD and its cause (whatever that may be).  Which also means that he's not exactly flexible in his opinions, for all that he is willing to at least deliberate with others over possible courses of action.

However, Gonzales already had his mind made up regarding Coulson -- this is probably why he never got in contact with Coulson when Coulson was rebuilding the organization.  What Bobbi and Mack were reporting to him, only reinforced his opinion.

In a way, Gonzales is acting very much like Talbot did, until Coulson demonstrates that he has the wherewithal to not only continue to thwart his attempts to "bring him in" but can also benefit him by acting independently, Gonzales is going to continue to come down hard on Coulson & co., thinking of them as nothing more than renegades who must be captured, constrained, and possibly recruited.

I like to think that Bobbi and Mack are still on the fence, especially in light of what happened in the episode.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#16 Cybersnark

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:36 AM

View PostG-man, on 01 April 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Quote

I rather like Bobbi's suggestion that it should be a democracy. Not a bunch of people blindly following one guy's orders, but a team that arrives at its decisions together. Might be tricky in practice, though.
Indeed.

Who gets to have a say in the decision? Is it everyone, including support staff, students, and dependents? Is it just an inner circle who gets the vote? Must everyone be present in order to have a vote?  And are votes delayed until such time as everyone can vote?
I think a Star Trek-inspired system would work, with everyone sorted into departments (Science, Field Ops, Logistics, Administration, Intelligence, etc), with each Department Head being part of the council, who serve to advise the Director (and can maybe remove him if need be). All of it constrained by some sort of SHIELD charter (which I presume existed back in Fury's day, since Coulson is clearly following a pre-existing rulebook).

And I like Gordon too, I'm just not sure he can be trusted. He's telling Skye exactly what she wants to hear, which is enough to make me suspicious. And we still don't know who exactly is pulling his strings (we know he answers to someone).
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#17 RJDiogenes

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 05:56 PM

^^  They seemed fairly benign in the flashbacks that we've seen with Skye's mother.

View PostG-man, on 03 April 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yeah, the whole "returned with a vengeance" just struck me as him devoting himself and all his energies to SHIELD and its cause (whatever that may be).  Which also means that he's not exactly flexible in his opinions, for all that he is willing to at least deliberate with others over possible courses of action.  
But, again, why have they established that he left SHIELD and returned unless something important happened to him during that time that will have repercussions later?  Was he recruited by HYDRA?  Was his wife killed by an Inhuman?  Did he fail in his second career as an exotic dancer?  There has to be something going on there.
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#18 G-man

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 09:35 AM

I was under the impression that Gonzales' wife had died from her illness, consequently, while she was ailing he was distracted, and probably took a leave of absence to focus on her.  once she died, he came back.

In this instance, I think they brought this point up to demonstrate that here was a person of fierce emotion and loyalty to those around him, rather than to suggest something sinister.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 04 April 2015 - 09:37 AM.

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#19 RJDiogenes

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:59 PM

Possibly.  It just seemed too specific to be a character flourish.  I have a feeling something significant happened during that absence.
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#20 Orpheus

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 11:34 PM

Gonzales didn't know if Colson knew who he was, so I doubt he was evading Colson's search for him.

Gonzales returned "with a vengeance" some time after his wife died, and rose to command "three years later". While this doesn't technically PROVE very much about the timing, I think it suggests that Robert Gonzales' wife died 4, maybe 5, years before the Hydra uprising. I turn to those of you more familiar with the timeline: does this suggest any specific alien-related event that may have caused Mrs Gonzales demise? I don't have a good sense of the exact timeline from Thor to The Avengers (culminating in Colson's demise/'rescue') and the Hydra uprising.

I'd appreciate cues on the precise timeline. I'm trying to connect some specific dots, assuming the series/films are keeping track.



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