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CBS airs two colorized I Love Lucy eps tonight, including Superman!

I Love Lucy Classic TV Classics Superman George Reeves

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#21 G-man

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 02:18 PM

View PostOmega, on 21 May 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

View PostRJDiogenes, on 20 May 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

View PostOmega, on 19 May 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

Art can transcend the limitations of the medium, for sure. Some art is defined by those limitations. (Twitter?) And art is subjective, so what is art and what is not varies from viewer to viewer. So where one viewer might see an update as violation of art, another might see it as overcoming limitations and improving it.  
I wouldn't say limitations, so much as definitions.  Haiku and Limericks have very strict definitions to their composition.  But a Haiku is not improved by turning it into a Limerick.

True. But the new limerick may also be of artistic merit, and that merit may be greater to some beholders than that of the original work. I suppose "improved" is a vague term when talking about things the quality of which is impossible to objectively quantify. :)

Well, the difference is that a new limerick is a new limerick, it is not a Haiku.

Rather what we're looking at is when an old limerick has all new illustrations around it, replacing the original illustrations.  Yeah, the new illustrations may be nice, but there was nothing wrong with the original illustrations.

As I have long maintained change = change, it may be different but not necessarily an improvement.  Of course, YMMV.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 21 May 2015 - 02:22 PM.

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#22 Christopher

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 02:43 PM

View PostOmega, on 21 May 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder how much of that is survivor bias. Maybe 95% of it was crap, just like today, but all that has been trashed in the intervening decades. If it's lasted a hundred years, it's clearly indestructible! Of course, from our standpoint it makes no difference. :)

Oh, absolutely. There was as much forgettable trash back then as there is now -- but we've forgotten it. The past always looks better to us than the present, because we forget the low points and just preserve the highlights. But it was really no different, and even worse in some respects (e.g. much greater censorship, racism, sexism, cruder production methods, less sophisticated storytelling, etc.).
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#23 RJDiogenes

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 06:13 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 21 May 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

I'm the same way. My house is a mixture of the old and the very new. I've got the latest recording technology, but my pie-anna was made in 1886, I have a green pressed-glass fruit bowl made in 1898, I've got lots of 19th century brass instruments, I rescued a huge old beast of a Hammond church organ, which dominates my livingroom, I have lots of antiques (washboard, ice box, clay pottery ware, mechanical hand-crank meat slicer, dome clocks with spinning mechanisms, sextants, Roman coins, you name it) and endless other odds 'n' sods. I get boxes of candles from thrift stores and garage sales for heap-cheap, so I rarely switch on an electric light- only when I actually have to see something.  
Perfect.  That's exactly as it should be.  I always say that I only add to myself, I never subtract-- and civilization should be the same way.  There's nothing wrong with a modern skyscraper, but there's nothing wrong with an 18th-century farmhouse either. This is one reason that I always loved Arthur C Clarke; most of his stuff has that thread of past, present, and future running through it.

View PostOmega, on 21 May 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

True. But the new limerick may also be of artistic merit, and that merit may be greater to some beholders than that of the original work. I suppose "improved" is a vague term when talking about things the quality of which is impossible to objectively quantify. :)  
The new limerick may indeed have merit, which is why I always say that people should write their own limericks and not re-write somebody else's haiku.

View PostOmega, on 21 May 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder how much of that is survivor bias. Maybe 95% of it was crap, just like today, but all that has been trashed in the intervening decades. If it's lasted a hundred years, it's clearly indestructible! Of course, from our standpoint it makes no difference. :)  
Sure, Sturgeon's Law. There's a lot of truth to that. But the point is not that the past was better than the present, but that the worst of the past is no worse than the worst of the present and the best of the past is just as good as the best of the present.  Humans haven't changed in tens of thousands of years-- only their tools have.  As for survival-- there are forgotten wonders out there that you wouldn't believe.  And one good thing about the technology of the present is that it gives us access to it.  Tons of great literature of past centuries is now available for free for your e-reader or pretty cheap through small presses.  I just recently bought a collection of turn-of-the-century (20th century, that is) fiction that has not seen the light of day in over a hundred years and it's wonderful.  On the other hand, the past definitely had its share of crap-- Varney the Vampire is practically unreadable.

View PostG-man, on 21 May 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

Well, the difference is that a new limerick is a new limerick, it is not a Haiku.  
Indeed.

Quote

Rather what we're looking at is when an old limerick has all new illustrations around it, replacing the original illustrations.  Yeah, the new illustrations may be nice, but there was nothing wrong with the original illustrations.  
If it ain't broke.....

Quote

As I have long maintained change = change, it may be different but not necessarily an improvement.  Of course, YMMV.  
Change can be good, bad, or indifferent.  The point I'm trying to make is that artistry should be respected regardless of when or where it was created.  Van Gogh doesn't suck because he had to use crappy poisonous paints.  Bollywood doesn't suck because they use different storytelling conventions.  Jules Verne doesn't suck because he was French and had no access to the Hubble Space Telescope.  We don't need black-and-white movies to be colorized-- we need an audience sophisticated enough to appreciate black-and-white movies.
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#24 FarscapeOne

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 07:24 PM

Bingo to that last sentence.

Everything can be embodied in just that.

#25 gsmonks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:21 AM

On that score, I've converted a few of my neighbours to the old walkies-powered push mowers and walking to the store. Our village is only 8 blocks across in both directions, yet everyone is so lazy they'll drive to the post office, restaurant and grocery store, and I razzed one of my neighbours a few weeks ago for putting the garbage in his van, backing out to the street, putting the garbage out, and driving back again. No kidding.

A push mower (they're calling it a "reel mower" at the stores these days) is just as easy to push around as a gas or electric model, so it only makes sense (to me) to do it the old-fashioned way. I bought two different models from two different stores because I wanted to compare their performance. One was of the traditional variety, the other is of a new design.

You have to remember that cheap disposable junk is a relatively new invention. It didn't exist before 1930's, and that which did didn't last long. People had no tolerance for cheap junk in those days. The only reason it came to exist in periods like the 1930's was because everyone was broke and they had no choice. Some examples were cardboard shoes, glued books that fell apart, pencils the lead fell out of, pen ink that wouldn't dry, that sort of thing. Nothing like today.
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#26 Omega

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:31 PM

I had a reel mower, but the handle fell off after a couple months...

#27 RJDiogenes

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:38 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 21 May 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

Bingo to that last sentence.

Everything can be embodied in just that.  
:thumbs-up:

View Postgsmonks, on 22 May 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

On that score, I've converted a few of my neighbours to the old walkies-powered push mowers and walking to the store. Our village is only 8 blocks across in both directions, yet everyone is so lazy they'll drive to the post office, restaurant and grocery store, and I razzed one of my neighbours a few weeks ago for putting the garbage in his van, backing out to the street, putting the garbage out, and driving back again. No kidding.  
Wow. One of the reasons I'd love to live in a village like that is that everything is in walking distance. Reminds me of a funny story, though: At the old house in Weymouth, Dunkin Donuts was just down the dirt road and two doors down the main street. Literally a two-minute walk. My Mother would always abuse my Father over driving there rather than walking. But when I'd set out to the service station to pick up my car-- slightly farther away at ten minutes-- she would always ask if I needed a ride, and look distressed when I declined.  :lol:

Quote

You have to remember that cheap disposable junk is a relatively new invention. It didn't exist before 1930's, and that which did didn't last long. People had no tolerance for cheap junk in those days. The only reason it came to exist in periods like the 1930's was because everyone was broke and they had no choice. Some examples were cardboard shoes, glued books that fell apart, pencils the lead fell out of, pen ink that wouldn't dry, that sort of thing. Nothing like today.  
True. Plus, we have today a humungous population that requires some level of mass production, especially when the suppliers are megacorps that require obscene profits to be satisfied with themselves.
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#28 gsmonks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 09:20 PM

I saw a documentary many years ago on brand-name products, which began appearing with early radio around 1910. Odorono (Odor Oh No) was one of the first deodorants, along with Mum (the commercial used the line, "Mum's the word", which is where the expression came from.

When I was a kid in the 1950's, we used to go to a dry goods store in North Vancouver called Orecks. My grandmother bought patterns there to make our clothes.

The Consumerism thing was a result of people moving from rural areas into cities in the 1930's. Before that, people churned their own butter, raised chickens for eggs, had a cow or goats for producing their own milk. By the 1940's many people were already disgusted with Consumerism, which "produced mountains of junk" (as said by Quebec Automatiste artist Paul-Emile Borduas). By the 1950's the disgust with Consumerism had become a cliche referred to as "commercialism" (there's a reference to this in A Charlie Brown Christmas, which was reflective of the 50's, not the 60's).

It's a myth that mass-production is needed to service the population. The only reason this is true is because the population has grown ignorant, dependent, lazy, greedy, self-involved, and incredibly selfish.

City life and technology are addictions that are far worse than Crack. Out here in the country we refer to city kids as "thumb zombies".
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#29 RJDiogenes

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:40 AM

While I would prefer to live in the country, I don't really have any desire to churn butter or milk goats.  :lol:  I'm not trying to say that consumerism is a bad thing.  Cities developed millennia ago as places where people could barter and buy goods and services that they couldn't manage for themselves, at least not conveniently.  This is good in many ways, from creating wealth to fostering the arts and sciences to seeding the social evolution that arises in a cosmopolitan environment.  Mass production is necessary to service the population-- if we want a society with culture-- but the problems arise when the population grows to an unwieldy size and greed and ambition go unregulated.  This not only gives us cookie-cutter products for cookie-cutter people, but it also gives us a cookie-cutter culture; bread-and-circuses entertainment that appeals to the lowest denominator.  The reason that social evolution arises in a cosmopolitan environment is because it's dynamic and diverse-- conformity leads to stagnation.  To bring it back around to the thread topic, the citizens of a thriving society should be exposed to, and be able to appreciate, a wide variety of artistic expression without prejudice.
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#30 gsmonks

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 05:30 PM

View PostOmega, on 22 May 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

I had a reel mower, but the handle fell off after a couple months...

It must have been reel cheap!!!

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-a-a-a!

I will see myself out . . .
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#31 FarscapeOne

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:01 PM

Lol.  I love puns...

#32 Omega

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:16 PM

The best part was when I tried to return it and they told me it was due to misuse. How does one misuse a reel mower? I mean, you put it in the yard and you push it. What do they think I did? Turn it upside-down and beat the grass into submission?

#33 FarscapeOne

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:05 PM

You can be the next MORTAL KOMBAT character... the Lawnmower Man!

#34 Omega

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 06:08 AM

Omega wins! Lawnless victory!

#35 RJDiogenes

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 05:35 PM

Omega brings lawn'order to the Wild West.  :cool:

"The Lawnmower Man" was an excellent early Stephen King short story.  Forget the movie.
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