10 replies to this topic

[G-man]

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Dangerous facts about the ATCU are discovered by the team; Ward's plans to take down S.H.I.E.L.D. do not go as expected.

Tune in tonight on ABC, at 9pm Eastern/8pm Central.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 17 November 2015 - 09:34 AM.

[G-man]

Wow.

So HYDRA is actually an ancient secret society whose past goes back millennia, and actually has ties with the Monolith and the Inhumans, as opposed to simply(!) being an extremist shadow organization that arose with the Nazis.  I must say, I did not see that coming.  Still, I have to wonder just how they were planning on controlling "Death" once they bring him back through to our world.  It seems to me that they really haven't thought that part through.

Yay, and Aww, for Fitz-Simmons ... yeah, it seems that their relationship will constantly be tested by circumstances, and will it survive Simmons belief that she is unworthy of Fitz's devotion?

As for Coulson and [Rosalind] Price, well that was certainly one way to get answers, and certainly points up the problems of working in a field rife with duplicity and subterfuge ... you run into Trust issues.  Albeit, Rosalind tipping her hand at she had been briefed on Phil certainly wouldn't foster Trust when Phil was still in the dark about her.  That Malick and HYDRA were behind the ATCU, and had played her, it certainly seemed like they were setting her up to be the good person who unwittingly was working for Evil, so this wasn't entirely unexpected.  Of course, where this leaves the ATCU is still open to question.  Is it an actual limb of HYDRA, or simply an organization that's been compromised by HYDRA?

Then there is Ward and Prof. Garner/Lash ... will Professor Garner be turned (leading to some splendid melodrama down the road), or will he somehow manage to keep the faith?

Loved the bit where Daisy was talking Hunter through the Hacker-speak, and then praying he knew what a forward slash was.  Certainly shades of Fitz-Simmons talking Coulson and May through their job interview at the end of Season 1.

All in all, a solid episode.

My only real issue is:  If it was Garner's containment unit that allowed them to ping the ACTU base, and access its systems ... how is it that it wasn't there for our gang to recover?  Just when did HYDRA have the chance to spirit Garner's cell away?  Implications are that it never went to that base, but then what did our guys ping that convinced the IT Guy to allow Hunter and Bobbi access to the ATCU facility?

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[RJDiogenes]

I think Gemma will eventually realize that an Alien Planet fling is even more transitory than a Summertime fling, even if Daniels doesn't turn out to be a minion of the Evil Inhuman.  Who turns out to be exiled, after all.  Good call, Sci-Fi Girl.  

And now we know how SHIELD will get back there.  There are little pieces of the Monolith stashed here and there in HYDRA bunkers.  I wonder what idiot carved it up and why.

Well, I'm very glad that Rosalind turned out to be a good guy-- as is her right-hand man, apparently.  I'm also wondering if the ATCU is a HYDRA unit or if it's only got moles.  And what will happen now that Malick has been outed?  Will he be taken into custody, or get away and go underground?

[G-man]

We-e-ell ... Malick hasn't been outed, per se.  Rather, he has been identified as HYDRA.

The problem is, he still retains his influence and power, and still has agents embedded deep in many a private and public organization.  However, I think Malick has correctly pegged Ward as something of a loose cannon, whether or not he can bind Ward to him is still open to question.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[RJDiogenes]

Isn't identified the same as outed, though?  Will they have reason not to turn him in?  Rosalind could certainly do it with credibility.  And I'm sure Talbot would believe Coulson.

And where has Talbot been lately?  We haven't seen him in forever.  He's pretty cool.

[sierraleone]

RJDiogenes, on 20 November 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Isn't identified the same as outed, though?  Will they have reason not to turn him in?  Rosalind could certainly do it with credibility.  And I'm sure Talbot would believe Coulson.

I assume the mean it as a matter of scale. Outed likely means identified to everyone (or nearly everyone, at the very least the parties that to whom the information is most pertinent to). And what is their proof yet, that will convince all other authorities? Could not someone say this is Rosalind trying to cover the ACTU's ass from some shady business they were involved in? Sure, those who already know and trust Rosalind will trust her statements.

[RJDiogenes]

Yes, both Rosalind and Coulson have contacts who will trust them and be able to gather the necessary evidence, hopefully.  At the very least, high-level people will be notified.

[Sci-Fi Girl]

This was epic!!!


FitzSimmons!  Wow!    What a moment!


The way Lincoln was scared of May was hilarious!    And then their actual talk was wonderful.  


And Hunter undercover was too funny!  



So many theories came true this episode!  
- RJ, you said that Roz might not know she was working for HYDRA ... True!
- My mother said Coulson didn't really trust Roz ...   True!  
- My mother also guessed that HYDRA was using the ATCU to build an army of inhumans ...   True!  
- I said the ancient secret society was sending people as offerings to the creature ...   Close!    (They just want to kneel to it, not feed it, but that's basically the same thing anyway.    )
- And I forget who said that the creature was a banished deadly inhuman ... But that's true too!  
- I also said that the fall finale would be the monster coming to earth.   Looking inevitable!   Whether its SHIELD or HYDRA, one of them is sure to do it!

The only theory left to be proven, is whether Will is really the creature.   And it's seeming more and more likely!  And if he isn't, then the only way he survived this long is by giving it a good HYDRA speech, so either way he's bad news!!!


And after all that, none of us predicted the biggest twist!!!    HYDRA, in various forms, has really been around for millennia!   The version we know is just the latest incarnation of the ancient secret order, the ritual blood cult that sacrifices people and likes to acquire mystical powers!

This is the best kind of twist.  It's shocking, and yet makes perfect sense with everything we have seen!  But also makes us see everything we already knew in a totally different light!   Which is similar to the original *HYDRA within SHIELD* twist two years ago.  Who knew they could pull that off again?!?  


So ... the Ram for sacrifice, becomes the evil octopus.  Interesting.  

SFG

Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 24 November 2015 - 11:31 AM.

[RJDiogenes]

Sci-Fi Girl, on 24 November 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

FitzSimmons!  Wow!    What a moment!  

Yeah, I loved that scene, sad as it was.

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The way Lincoln was scared of May was hilarious!    And then their actual talk was wonderful.    

It was so great that she apologized to him.  Very classy.  

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- RJ, you said that Roz might not know she was working for HYDRA ... True!   

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- My mother said Coulson didn't really trust Roz ...   True!  
- My mother also guessed that HYDRA was using the ATCU to build an army of inhumans ...   True!  
- I said the ancient secret society was sending people as offerings to the creature ...   Close!    (They just want to kneel to it, not feed it, but that's basically the same thing anyway.    )  

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- And I forget who said that the creature was a banished deadly inhuman ... But that's true too!

I thought that was you, too.  

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The only theory left to be proven, is whether Will is really the creature.   And it's seeming more and more likely!  And if he isn't, then the only way he survived this long is by giving it a good HYDRA speech, so either way he's bad news!!!  

Probably, but it will be a cop out in a way if he is. That will make Gemma's decision for her and Fitz will never know who it would have been.

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And after all that, none of us predicted the biggest twist!!!    HYDRA, in various forms, has really been around for millennia!   The version we know is just the latest incarnation of the ancient secret order, the ritual blood cult that sacrifices people and likes to acquire mystical powers!  

From what I hear, that was established a while ago in Marvel Comics.  But it happened after I bailed, so I wasn't aware.

[G-man]

OK.  I got to thinking, given the revelations of Malick concerning HYDRA's overall goal, did Schmidt (aka the Red Skull) and Arnim Zola actually go off script?

Yeah, Dr. Reinhardt was collecting and collating information about the Inhumans, which ties into the whole monolith mythology; but it seems to me that Schmidt felt "why bother to recover the exile, when we have the means to achieve global destruction and domination by our own hands."

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[FarscapeOne]

Interesting thought.  It's possible, though achieving the main HYDRA goal by those means would likely mean certain success in retrieving the Inhuman.

We should also keep in mind that HYDRA has had different names throughout the millennia.  HYDRA may have just been a more violent and dominant version of that organization.