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2016 Primaries and political debates

Election Primaries 2016

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#121 BklnScott

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:09 AM

View PostNonny, on 17 April 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 15 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

She's been raising money for democrats and the party for almost 40 years. How do YOU define being a member of the democratic party in good standing, Nonny?

She isn't "died in the wool" because she married into it,

WHAT.

Quote

and she gave herself away when she quoted her father at the last debate.

How dare she.

PS, folks, it's over. Hillary will be the nominee. It's not yet mathematically impossible for Bernie to overtake her but the margins of victory he would have to run up are so absurd as to be functionally impossible (check links). He has lost and, by the way, he's lost decisively. She has 2.7 million more votes.

So - without further ado:

who here hates Hillary so much they prefer a President Trump?

Edited by BklnScott, 20 April 2016 - 10:11 AM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#122 Cait

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:16 AM

View PostBklnScott, on 20 April 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:


who here hates Hillary so much they prefer a President Trump?

THIS.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#123 G-man

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:25 PM

I'm holding out for Bernie.  So there :p

As for Hillary ... do you really see her having an easier time with Congress than Obama should the Republicans retain control of both houses?  

Personally, I think she's going to face just as much obstructionism as Obama has, if only because of the decades of anti-Hillary vitriol that's been spewed by the Mouthpieces of the Right.  My fear is that the Republicans would feel it their sworn duty to oppose any and all of her initiatives for as long as they can, and refuse to work with her at all thus perpetuating the brinkmanship, gridlock, and crises that have plagued this nation for nigh a decade.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 20 April 2016 - 02:26 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#124 Omega

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:52 PM

Yeah, Hillary's arguments that she'll get more done than Bernie are disingenuous. As long as the Republicans control Congress, no Democrat will get anything done. They're not even pretending it's about policy any more.

But no, the list in order of preference is:
  • Bernie
  • Hillary
  • Green candidate
  • Write in vote for myself even though I can't legally serve
  • My parakeets
  • Vermin Supreme
  • Kasich
  • Libertarian candidate
  • Cruz
  • Trump

The order of those last two depends on which one I heard speak most recently.

#125 Omega

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:53 PM

As a somewhat related issue, what happens to Sanders' unspent money when his campaign ends? Can he find candidates for other offices to give it to?

#126 BklnScott

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:32 PM

He could. Whether he WOULD is an open question. Despite operating a juggernaut fundraising operation, he has shown extremely limited interest in the down-ballot races - unlike Hillary. When they write the eulogy for Bernie's campaign, this will be highlighted as one of its biggest failings.

That said, whether he has any money left to spread around by the time he calls it quits is another open question. I still think he's earned the right to go all the way to the convention - and I think he should wield enormous power there. Power over the platform, over the party going forward, over the first hundred days legislative agenda - all of it. What cabinet seat does he want, if any? But in return, Bernie needs to deliver his people.

8 years ago, a lot of Obamaphiles hemmed and hawed over whether Hillary would deliver HER people but I never worried about it. She'd been a faithful party member her entire life. Of course she would break her ass to get Obama elected. And she did.

Now Bernie has a choice to make. He can sit on his purity throne and snipe - and help elect President Trump - or he can get his hands dirty and assume responsibility for helping to shape the party going forward. Note that, in his career, he has shown a particular fondness for the purity throne. And for sniping. I like the guy but now that he's beaten, I'm a little worried about what he  chooses to do next. I will happily take it back when he does the right thing.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#127 BklnScott

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:40 PM

View PostG-man, on 20 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm holding out for Bernie.  So there :p

As for Hillary ... do you really see her having an easier time with Congress than Obama should the Republicans retain control of both houses?  

Personally, I think she's going to face just as much obstructionism as Obama has ...

I love Obama but he absolutely disdains the sausage-making part of the job. He is aloof. He hates schmoozing. He starts out with the compromise position. He thinks opponents should do the right thing because it's the right thing. Whereas Hillary carries brass knuckles. OF COURSE she will be more effective than he has been. It was my argument 8 years ago and it's my argument today. I'm eager to see this theory put to the test and I think it will be.

Edited by BklnScott, 20 April 2016 - 03:45 PM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#128 Cait

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 05:23 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 20 April 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Whereas Hillary carries brass knuckles. OF COURSE she will be more effective than he has been. It was my argument 8 years ago and it's my argument today. I'm eager to see this theory put to the test and I think it will be.

I remember during the 2008 campaign Hillary herself likened Obama to JFK, and herself to LBJ.  She complimented Obama saying he had many good ideas, but singled herself out when she said [paraphrase] that it wasn't time to be idealistic, it was time to roll your shirt sleeves up and do the hard work.  

Like Scott, I love Obama, but he has never been willing to do the hard work of politics.  He's kept himself above the fray, and OK, I like that to a point.  But, I think that going forward, Hillary and her brass knuckles can get the job done.  

LBJ carried out the agenda of JKF, but many people speculate [and I agree] that JFK would have never been able to get his legislation passed.  It took LBJ to do it.  He knew where all the bodies were buried, and he was not going to stop until the Voting Rights Act was passed. It cost him his 2nd term [along with VietNam] and the Dixiecrats, but he got it done. [and the party has never really missed the dixiecrats tbh]  He is a much maligned President [especially compared to JFK], but he got so much done.  It boggles the mind how much he got done in a time when no one [Democrat or Republican] wanted anything to change.

I think Hillary is Obama's LBJ, and I don't mean she is criminal, I mean she is tough, experienced, and will not take any crap.  I think Obama will be remembered as the idealist with that tinge of "Camelot" attached.  But, it is Hillary that will do the hard work to make it all real for all of us peons.  

I think Obamacare is safe with Hillary, and may even be improved.  I think the courts are safe from conservatives.  I think foreign policy and security is safe in her hands.  I think Hillary is exactly what her husband Bill says she is.. the smartest one in the family.  That, and her brass knuckles, and the complete disarray in the GOP, and, like Scott, I'm Pretty optimistic about the future.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#129 Nonny

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 06:09 PM

OMG "purity throne"? :rolleyes:
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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#130 G-man

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:15 AM

Well, in fairness, Bernie has always been Independent and would probably rather not be beholden to anyone.  Perhaps he'd rather remain a Senator and continue to fight the fight in the legislature rather than become part of Hillary's cabinet where his actions would probably be constrained.

Hopefully, his performance in the primaries will encourage the Democrats to adopt a far more socialist stance than they would otherwise.  Certainly, Hillary's platform has already adopted a lot of Bernie's points ... whether or not she will follow through on them is open to question.

What I found interesting about the New York primary is that while Hillary clearly won NYC, the rest of the state favored Bernie, thus Clinton only netted some 20-odd delegates on Bernie.   There is an obvious divide where each of the candidate's appeal lies.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 21 April 2016 - 09:17 AM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#131 BklnScott

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:10 AM

View PostG-man, on 21 April 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well, in fairness, Bernie has always been Independent and would probably rather not be beholden to anyone.  Perhaps he'd rather remain a Senator and continue to fight the fight in the legislature rather than become part of Hillary's cabinet where his actions would probably be constrained.

Hopefully, his performance in the primaries will encourage the Democrats to adopt a far more socialist stance than they would otherwise.  Certainly, Hillary's platform has already adopted a lot of Bernie's points ... whether or not she will follow through on them is open to question.

What I found interesting about the New York primary is that while Hillary clearly won NYC, the rest of the state favored Bernie, thus Clinton only netted some 20-odd delegates on Bernie.   There is an obvious divide where each of the candidate's appeal lies.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Hillary won NYC, Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester, Albany and their suburbs. When you subtract those populations, what you're left with by comparison is... well, very few people on a very large map... which can get fuzzy if geography is confused for population. So the results for Bernie are amazingly consistent - he does well with rural white Democratic Primary voters but lacks strength in big, diverse population centers.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#132 BklnScott

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:35 AM

http://elections.ap....th-clinch-calif

According to the AP, Bernie must win 73% of all remaining delegates to win the nomination but Hillary could lose every remaining state and still clinch the nomination.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#133 Cait

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 02:43 PM

Just in case anyone wants to know how big the Trump movement is...

Quote

“All he seems to have done is bring new people into the primary process, not bring new people into the general-election process … It’s exciting that these new people that are engaged in the primary but those people are people that are already going to vote Republican in the [fall],” said Alex Lundry, who served as director of data science for Mitt Romney in 2012, when presented Politico’s findings. “It confirms what my suspicion has been all along.”

Quote


Top Democrats and Republicans alike agree that a broader challenge facing the GOP is that the traditional Republican base—older, mostly white voters—already turn out at a higher rate than the Democratic base of minorities and young voters.

“Romney didn’t lose because he didn’t turn out his base. He lost because his base was too small,” said Dan Pfeiffer, a former senior adviser to Obama. “He did a really good job turning out Republican voters. There just wasn’t enough of them.”



Read more: http://www.politico....7#ixzz48wanpb1w
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#134 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 09:35 PM

Kentucky Fried Bernie...finger lickin' good!

edited to add: while Hillary is the Oregon Trailer.

another night of treading water... :freakingout2:

Meanwhile Claire McCaskill said that Trump hadn't even gotten 40% in the Kentucky GOP primary, but I couldn't say for sure since MSNBC never seemed to put up any numbers for that race.

yadda

Edited by yadda yadda, 17 May 2016 - 11:37 PM.




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