Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Hillary Clinton??

2016 Election Democtats Hillary Clinton 2016

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 03 March 2016 - 03:26 PM

Well, she might as well get her own thread for discussion.  She will most likely be the nominee of the Democrats.

This is an interesting read....

http://www.politico....campaign-220165

Quote

Hillary Clinton is not the most talented candidate in the 2016 race. She isn’t the most electrifying speaker. And with Bernie Sanders’ massive online donor operation, she can’t even stake claim to being the best-funded Democrat in the field (he outraised her by about $10 million last month). But the past month has proved she is the toughest, and most resilient candidate in the field. For all her flaws, Clinton has overcome early stumbles to dominate Sanders on Super Tuesday, and she’s started to gently ease him into the fold even as the GOP descends into political Mogadishu.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#2 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 05 March 2016 - 02:53 PM

Just mentioning that I am not supporting her, so anybody interested in unfriending me, do it now, preferably without all the nastiness of 2008, 'k?
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#3 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:14 AM

FBI Director James Comey announced this morning that there will be no criminal charges forthcoming from the investigation of Hillary Clinton's use of a personal e-mail server. He characterized her use of the server as being "extremely careless" in handling and transmission of some government documents classified as secret and confidential, but that there was no evidence of willful mishandling, gross negligence, or disloyalty that would meet the standards for any prosecutable indictment.

Director Comey stressed that this morning's announcement was prepared and released without the foreknowledge or approval of the President or the Attorney General and the investigation was the result of painstaking examination and reconstruction of the e-mails from Secretary Clinton's servers and other government employee's devices. Comey seemed very critical of the low to non-existent levels of security for Secretary Clinton's e-mail system and the lax culture of the State Department as far as security concerns.

Edited by yadda yadda, 07 July 2016 - 06:45 AM.


#4 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 12:06 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

FBI Director James Comey announced this morning that there will be no criminal charges forthcoming from the investigation of Hillary Clinton's use of a personal e-mail server. He characterized her use of the server as being "extremely careless" in handling and transmission of some government documents classified as secret and confidential, but that there was no evidence of willful mishandling, gross negligence, or disloyalty that would meet the standards for any prosecutable indictment.

*Bolding is mine

The definition of "Gross negligence" is Extreme Carelessness.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#5 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 12:36 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 05 July 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

FBI Director James Comey announced this morning that there will be no criminal charges forthcoming from the investigation of Hillary Clinton's use of a personal e-mail server. He characterized her use of the server as being "extremely careless" in handling and transmission of some government documents classified as secret and confidential, but that there was no evidence of willful mishandling, gross negligence, or disloyalty that would meet the standards for any prosecutable indictment.

*Bolding is mine

The definition of "Gross negligence" is Extreme Carelessness.

Your sourcing of that definition , please?

ETA: http://www.legal-def...oss negligence

This source cites "gross negligence" as carelessness in "reckless disregard". The terms "extreme" and "reckless disregard" are not the same, not equivalent. Not on a legal definition level nor on a semantic level. Tap the legal definition icon to delineate "negligence" from "gross negligence"

Edited by yadda yadda, 05 July 2016 - 12:54 PM.


#6 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 02:33 PM

LoTS, since I haven't heard back on your sourcing I'm going to strongly consider it was following the words of Rudy Giuliani who has stated word for word, your definition of "gross negligence" = "extreme carelessness", as well as your quote from your other thread about judges and lawyers explaining to juries that extreme carelessness is the definition of gross negligence. If Rudy is your wellspring of knowledge, be advised that Giuliani is veritably the definition of partisan hack. Rudy is almost always wrong, the only two times he can be considered to be right are when he says 9-11, which he does a lot, since it's 9:11 twice a day.

#7 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 03:03 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

LoTS, since I haven't heard back on your sourcing I'm going to strongly consider it was following the words of Rudy Giuliani who has stated word for word, your definition of "gross negligence" = "extreme carelessness", as well as your quote from your other thread about judges and lawyers explaining to juries that extreme carelessness is the definition of gross negligence. If Rudy is your wellspring of knowledge, be advised that Giuliani is veritably the definition of partisan hack. Rudy is almost always wrong, the only two times he can be considered to be right are when he says 9-11, which he does a lot, since it's 9:11 twice a day.

It wasn't Rudy. It was some lawyer that was on Foxnews, right after the FBI announcement. Can't recall his name. But it wasn't Rudy
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#8 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 03:42 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 05 July 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

LoTS, since I haven't heard back on your sourcing I'm going to strongly consider it was following the words of Rudy Giuliani who has stated word for word, your definition of "gross negligence" = "extreme carelessness", as well as your quote from your other thread about judges and lawyers explaining to juries that extreme carelessness is the definition of gross negligence. If Rudy is your wellspring of knowledge, be advised that Giuliani is veritably the definition of partisan hack. Rudy is almost always wrong, the only two times he can be considered to be right are when he says 9-11, which he does a lot, since it's 9:11 twice a day.

It wasn't Rudy. It was some lawyer that was on Foxnews, right after the FBI announcement. Can't recall his name. But it wasn't Rudy

    OK, well if it was some lawyer on Fox News then he mimicked Rudy's schtick right to the letter, because what you've quoted from the Fox News lawyer is the same old Rudy Rhetoric. Maybe it's on the RNC meme e-mail that's making the talking head rounds today. But here's what Rudy had to say on CNBC in criticizing Comey's findings and trying to make a case for a Clinton indictment...."Gross negligence is the first definition in Black's Law Dictionary" Giuliani told Brian Sullivan on CNBC. "Gross negligence includes the words 'extreme carelessness'."

That's from Newsmax...and from what I can see from researching it, it seems all Rudy does these days is write anti-Hillary pieces for Newsmax, a regular cottage industry for used-to-was right wing hacks these days.

http://www.newsmax.c.../id/737163/  

(tap the "Homepage" icon on the link page to see Rudy's article)


But is it really, Rudy? Is that what Black's Law Dictionary actually says?

I found an online link to Black's Law Dictionary, 6th edition, 1990. Just so we can compare it to the legal definition in my above post # 5 which has been already demonstrated not to equate gross negligence to extreme carelessness.

http://www.trufax.or...orts/legal.html

Black's Law Dictionary's legal definition of "criminal gross negligence" is as follows..."Negligence that is accompanied by acts of commission or omission of a wanton or willful nature, showing a reckless or indifferent disregard of the rights of others, under circumstances reasonably calculated to produce injury, or which make it probable that injury will be occasioned, and the offender knows or is charged with knowledge of the probable results of his acts"

So where's the mention of extreme carelessness that Rudy assures us is there? It's not there, Rudy, no matter how much you want to lie to push the Republican agenda. You're a charlatan and a partisan  fraud, Rudy. And nobody with half a brain takes you seriously. And since your evident extreme carelessness in vetting Black's has caused you to misspeak, shall we then charge you with gross negligence, Rudy? Or simply gross lack of candor and personal integrity?

Edited by yadda yadda, 05 July 2016 - 05:20 PM.


#9 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 03:47 PM

Posted Image
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#10 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 04:58 PM

^Now there's a real intelligent argument.

#11 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 06:11 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

^Now there's a real intelligent argument.

LOL. It was suppose to be a real sarcastic argument. LOL.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#12 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 06:21 PM

How bout this one instead?

Posted Image
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 09:18 PM

If that's the best you've got then this attempt at discussion is pointless. I abdicate. Have fun with your art gallery. A bit regressive though, don't you think? I thought we as a species got beyond pictographs and cave drawings as attempted communication a few eons back...

Edited by yadda yadda, 05 July 2016 - 10:50 PM.


#14 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,078 posts

Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:15 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 05 July 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 July 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

LoTS, since I haven't heard back on your sourcing I'm going to strongly consider it was following the words of Rudy Giuliani who has stated word for word, your definition of "gross negligence" = "extreme carelessness", as well as your quote from your other thread about judges and lawyers explaining to juries that extreme carelessness is the definition of gross negligence. If Rudy is your wellspring of knowledge, be advised that Giuliani is veritably the definition of partisan hack. Rudy is almost always wrong, the only two times he can be considered to be right are when he says 9-11, which he does a lot, since it's 9:11 twice a day.

It wasn't Rudy. It was some lawyer that was on Foxnews, right after the FBI announcement. Can't recall his name. But it wasn't Rudy

It's Fox Entertainment. Fox doesn't have a real news division. Their so-called "news" division is a GOP mouthpiece, not worth mentioning, except as a joke.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#15 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 07 July 2016 - 06:37 AM

I've been having a go around with LoTS on the Hillary/Comey e-mail findings, here and on his other thread about it. And most of my energies have gone to refuting and challenging some of what I consider LoTS' misconceptions, erroneous conclusions, and tendency to jump to trains of wildly improbable conspiracy thought. That said, as a Democratic voter to be honest I am beginning to have some uneasy qualms about the Clinton candidacy myself.

I still consider her to be probably the smartest and most qualified presidential candidate on the basis of her experience that I have ever seen. I think she would do much to keep this nation on the right track and maximize economic and social benefit for all Americans. I, like many others have sought to minimize, both in my mind and through my postings the ramifications of this whole private server/potential security breach episode. Yeah, it was stupid of her, odd for one so bright and savvy. Yeah, it looked like Colin Powell and Condi Rice were similarly cavalier in transmission and receipt of sensitive information, though they didn't go to the extent of installing a private server. Yeah, maybe I'm a bit biased to give her a pass because she and I are of the same generation and I'm a cyber curmudgeon if there ever was one...your stereotypical Grampa who is lucky enough to barely even know how to communicate by e-mail.

But the thing about it all that truly bugs me is the lying. Hillary was adamant she hadn't e-mailed any classified Top Secret material. Comey debunked that, called it untrue. She said she'd turned over all work e-mails to the State Dept. Comey found some that hadn't been turned over. I believe there were at least four other areas or issues pointed out where her statements and positions on the disposition of her e-mails or number of devices involved where she was shown to be untruthful. Being untruthful is not in and of itself a disqualifying factor in seeking political office. Most, if not all politicians lie during their campaigns or time in office. It has become practically a political strategy in recent years especially. Donald Trump lies continuously, to much approbation in some circles.

But the thing that really bugs me about Hillary Clinton's lies in this case are that she didn't have to. She could have told the truth about all of her warts and peccadilloes early on in this e-mail investigation, the maybe few Secret e-mail chains, that maybe some of her work e-mails weren't included in the submission dump to the State Department. That maybe she'd used more than one unsecure device in the whole process. All of the dirty little things that came out in the wash in Comey's laundry. It would've been a bit embarrassing, maybe cost her a bit of political capital at the time. But she evidently decided to play the bluff and figured the DOJ would likely just throw in their cards. This disturbs me. It appears that her strategy at this point is to sweep the findings of her lying under the rug, consider the non-filing of criminal charges as vindication, and hope that the fact she's running against a pretty much complete idiot will push her over the election finish line, victorious. I certainly hope that's the case because the alternative of a complete idiot as president is frightening, and the Clintons through their stupidity, connivance, and remarkably poor understanding of how appearance of impropriety and blatant lack of candor sits with the public, especially with the pack of GOP attack dogs constantly on the trail.  

I still think that Hillary Clinton will make a fine president, if elected. Someone as smart as she will undoubtedly learn from her mistakes, adherence to proper security protocols, and not least of which would be how not to get caught in obvious falsehoods. But I find it troubling that one so very smart could lapse into being so incredibly dumb. And I don't like the fact she put her own personal ambition above risking the chances of a Republican being elected president in 2016. What if she'd been running against a normal Republican like Jeb!, instead of a buffoon like Trump? She'd be 5 or 6 points behind right now is what I think. All I can say is I'm glad that Bernie Sanders is still there as an emergency Democratic ripcord. Had an indictment been recommended he would be the nominee. And without knowing how circumstances are going to play out on this public relations nightmare, he may still be. And that would be a shame, because Sanders is not as complete and seasoned a presidential candidate as Hillary. But at least he has the good sense to keep his lies to a minimum and out of public view.

Edited by yadda yadda, 07 July 2016 - 06:52 AM.


#16 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 15 July 2016 - 09:10 PM

I thought some on here might appreciate this article:

http://www.chicagore...nt?oid=22839110

(the article written by a person refuting the idea that being for Hillary is thinking with her vagina. As I said, some people might appreciate it. And, yes, some might not appreciate it for some nuanced reasoning, which is fine. And then some might foam at the mouth...)

Edited by sierraleone, 15 July 2016 - 10:03 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#17 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 15 July 2016 - 09:57 PM

^ Interesting and well articulated point of view. Thanks for sharing it! ;)

#18 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:45 AM

Yadda, great expression of the way I feel, as is the Chicago article.
Cats will never be extinct!

#19 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 31 July 2016 - 12:33 PM

Hillary Clinton on Fox Sunday in about a half hour from now, at 2:00 EDT, interviewed by Chris Wallace.

#20 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 31 July 2016 - 11:50 PM


Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 2016 Election, Democtats, Hillary Clinton, 2016

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users