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Supergirl: Manhunter

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#1 Virgil Vox

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:59 PM

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J'onn J'onzz reveals the details of meeting Kara and Alex's father, Dr. Jeremiah Danvers (Dean Cain), and assuming Hank Henshaw's identity. Also, Kara debates trusting someone new with her secret identity and Siobhan (Italia Ricci) plots against Kara.

"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
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#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:37 PM

And this episode is where the show goes off the rails, IMO.

How does the DEO know anything about Green Martians? Enough that they can build a device that shuts down all of J'onn's powers? Since he's the last green Martian, how do they know anything about him, since they never caught him to study. Speaking of Studying....and whatever else Cadmus is doing, why the need for the DEO if the government has Cadmus?

Not to mention, my main problem with this episode, the military has taken over the DEO. They've arrested Kara's friend, and her adopted sister, and she is STILL working with them? Oh HELL NO! On top of that, she learns about Cadmus, which is why Superman doesn't work with the government, and yet Kara still is working with them???? Talk about taking stupid to an insane level.

I do hope they explain how Siobhan got her powers. I guess she thought Cat would just take that email at face value. LOL. Sucks to be her.
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#3 G-man

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 08:13 AM

OK, I got a question ...

I don't watch the show, but occasionally I do read reviews of episodes.  And for this one, the reviewer observed just how crowded the episode was with plot points, and just how rushed everything felt as instead of focusing on only a couple of points, and follow up on the fall-out from last weeks misadventure, they instead touched on like a dozen points and never really developed them.  Is this a valid complaint?

I ask, because it echoed my sentiment from S1 of The Flash, where I felt the writers were rushing things, but others thought that they were either pacing just right, or were going too slow.

/s/

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#4 Virgil Vox

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 10:31 AM

I enjoyed the episode. Sure, I wished it had focused more on Supergirl's rejection by the city but there was enough of that in the episode to show that the city still fears her and that she hasn't won back their trust.

The military taking over the D.E.O. was pretty dramatic and felt like a natural evolution to what had happened, especially since we've seen in the past that the military has wanted control over the organization for some time now. My only real complaint is that aside from the main characters there's no recurring D.E.O. characters that we truly care about. Sure, there's Vasquez but before Kara said her name this episode I couldn't remember it.

Okay, I was excited to see Jim Harper aka Guardian but this version was a far cry from his heroic DC counterpart. Here he was an extremely xenophobic butthole that you wanted to see get taken down.

I'm glad we finally learned what happened to the real Henshaw and Jeremiah all those years ago. I liked that the D.E.O. under the real Henshaw looked less hi-tech and grimier than it does in the present day under J'onn. It shows what a positive influence he's had.

Loved the peeks into Alex's and Kara's past. It really helps to define both characters. I do like that they gave an explanation for why Kara wears the glasses. It was supposed to be in the pilot but cut for time.

I did not see Kara revealing her identity to Lucy. That was definitely brave of her. I also did not see Lucy becoming acting head of the D.E.O. Nor did I see J'onn and Alex becoming fugitives. This episode, along with the last one, really upset the status quo of this show.

Cadmus is definitely a darker place in this universe than in the comics. Sure there have been times in the comics it's done some questionable work but there always seemed to be good people there trying to steer it right. Here it sounds like a horror show. A horror show that might have Jeremiah Danvers as a prisoner.

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How does the DEO know anything about Green Martians? Enough that they can build a device that shuts down all of J'onn's powers? Since he's the last green Martian, how do they know anything about him, since they never caught him to study.

Well, it seemed the D.E.O. already knew a lot about Green Martians. Remember in the flashback the real Henshaw knew about J'onn's weakness to fire and his ability to regenerate. So somehow they had knowledge prior to J'onn taking on Henshaw's identity. Also remember that they now have a White Martian as a captive. If they interrogated him or sent him to Cadmus they could have learned a lot about Martians and been able to develop counter-measures. It's also possible J'onn offered up some information as a sign of his willingness to cooperate.

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Speaking of Studying....and whatever else Cadmus is doing, why the need for the DEO if the government has Cadmus?

Because Cadmus is purely scientific research. That's what it exists to do. The D.E.O. exists to capture aliens and protect the Earth from alien threat. Cadmus studies them and tries to make weapons and other defenses from them. Look at all the governmental agencies that exist today that seem to have overlapping or similar reasons for existing. It's not really that much of a stretch.

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Not to mention, my main problem with this episode, the military has taken over the DEO. They've arrested Kara's friend, and her adopted sister, and she is STILL working with them? Oh HELL NO! On top of that, she learns about Cadmus, which is why Superman doesn't work with the government, and yet Kara still is working with them???? Talk about taking stupid to an insane level.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for a few things. First is that Kara is probably walking on eggshells after what happened last episode. There are a lot of people who don't trust her now because of her Red K fueled attack, so she's probably trying to reign in her temper and her threats so she can still operate as a hero. Second, it wasn't until the end of the episode that she learned about Cadmus. Before that she probably thought J'onn and Alex would get a fair hearing. Third is that once she did learn about Cadmus she teamed up with Lucy to take down Harper and free J'onn and her sister. Last, she's still working for the D.E.O. because I think she truly believes it can be a force for good and hopes that under Lucy's direction it will remain that way. Besides, she saw what happened when she didn't work for the D.E.O.: Indigo almost launched America's nukes to obliterate the planet.

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I do hope they explain how Siobhan got her powers. I guess she thought Cat would just take that email at face value. LOL. Sucks to be her.

In the comics they're simply part of her. Her family is tied to the banshee curse. My guess is the power has been dormant in her until a moment of extreme stress activated them, like falling off a building. Yeah, she didn't think her revenge plot out all that well. I have to say I do like how they've built up Siobhan and given her good reasons to hate both Kara and Supergirl. She's not a threat coming from out of nowhere.

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I don't watch the show, but occasionally I do read reviews of episodes.  And for this one, the reviewer observed just how crowded the episode was with plot points, and just how rushed everything felt as instead of focusing on only a couple of points, and follow up on the fall-out from last weeks misadventure, they instead touched on like a dozen points and never really developed them.  Is this a valid complaint?

I felt like the episode followed up on last week's fallout. We saw that the city is still afraid of Kara and that she's been afraid to go out saving people, that crime has risen dramatically, we saw Siobhan try to get revenge on Kara, and that the military has taken over the D.E.O. now since J'onn has been outed as an alien. They didn't sweep anything under the rug. This all follows from last week's episode and from threads that have been building for a while now. Sure it was a lot to take in but I think the episode handled it rather well.

Sure the episode was crowded so that might be a valid complaint. I think only having 20 episodes instead of 22 might be making them rush towards the finale at this point. Yet it didn't feel like any plot or character was getting under served. The episode focused on the main plot of the military taking over the D.E.O. and shipping J'onn and Alex to Cadmus and had Siobhan's revenge and Kara's reluctance to be a hero as sub-plots.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#5 Cybersnark

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 11:41 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 23 March 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

Okay, I was excited to see Jim Harper aka Guardian but this version was a far cry from his heroic DC counterpart. Here he was an extremely xenophobic butthole that you wanted to see get taken down.

[...]

Cadmus is definitely a darker place in this universe than in the comics. Sure there have been times in the comics it's done some questionable work but there always seemed to be good people there trying to steer it right. Here it sounds like a horror show. A horror show that might have Jeremiah Danvers as a prisoner.
I'm not so sure on that first point.

In the comics, Jim Harper was one of the people who shepherded Cadmus from its earlier dark era under psychotic lunatic Dabney Donovan and xenophobic bigot Paul Westfield (and Lex Luthor, who needs no introduction) and turned it into a force for (mostly) good --pretty much exactly as J'onn and Alex did for the DEO.

It's possible that taking them into custody was some sort of trojan horse gambit, so they could help him reorganize the place from the inside. It would explain why that image of Danvers was at the top of his thoughts, and why he immediately stepped down after his plan went pear-shaped, and appointed Lucy to keep the DEO working as it has been.

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How does the DEO know anything about Green Martians? Enough that they can build a device that shuts down all of J'onn's powers? Since he's the last green Martian, how do they know anything about him, since they never caught him to study.

Well, it seemed the D.E.O. already knew a lot about Green Martians. Remember in the flashback the real Henshaw knew about J'onn's weakness to fire and his ability to regenerate. So somehow they had knowledge prior to J'onn taking on Henshaw's identity.
Well, we know J'onn has met Superman in this continuity (he's mentioned Superman to Kara), and we know he was active before the DEO's Martian-hunt (because Kara had already been adopted). If J'onn's been maintaining his cover since replacing Hank, it's likely that the J'onn/Superman meeting happened before the flashback. It's quite possible someone (like Luthor, who likely exists just as Superman does) managed to learn something from their earlier team-up and leaked it to Cadmus and hence to the DEO.
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#6 Virgil Vox

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 10:42 PM

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In the comics, Jim Harper was one of the people who shepherded Cadmus from its earlier dark era under psychotic lunatic Dabney Donovan and xenophobic bigot Paul Westfield (and Lex Luthor, who needs no introduction) and turned it into a force for (mostly) good --pretty much exactly as J'onn and Alex did for the DEO.

It's possible that taking them into custody was some sort of trojan horse gambit, so they could help him reorganize the place from the inside. It would explain why that image of Danvers was at the top of his thoughts, and why he immediately stepped down after his plan went pear-shaped, and appointed Lucy to keep the DEO working as it has been.

Sure, maybe Harper was trying to recruit J'onn and Alex to help him fix Cadmus but we were given no real indication that that was what his intentions were. It's just as likely that he stepped aside and appointed Lucy because J'onn put the suggestion in his brain. I do hope Harper is/becomes the heroic Guardian but I just don't know at this point.

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Well, we know J'onn has met Superman in this continuity (he's mentioned Superman to Kara), and we know he was active before the DEO's Martian-hunt (because Kara had already been adopted). If J'onn's been maintaining his cover since replacing Hank, it's likely that the J'onn/Superman meeting happened before the flashback.

If Superman and J'onn did meet before the flashback it's possible that Superman told Jeremiah about the Martian, and those notes were in the files that Jeremiah gave to Henshaw in order to keep Henshaw from taking Kara.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman



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