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Orph's random interesting thread


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#1 Orpheus

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:36 AM

I've tried this kind of thing before. Maybe this time it'll take off.

Here's the twist I'm trying this time: if you think an article is worth discussing,
1) hit "Quote"
2) copy the result from the Reply window (i.e. copy the quote of my post)
3) start a new thread and past the quote in
4) Comment away!

Don't worry if you forget. I can start a new thread and move your comment into it.

#2 Orpheus

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:42 AM

"Insects may have had basic 'consciousness' more than 500 million years ago"

They're only positing "basic egocentric consciousness", but even that has always been a fascinating possibility.

From ants to bees to Than: Were/Are insects conscious enough to trigger the Observer Effect in quantum physics?

#3 RJDiogenes

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 05:11 PM

I got a "Page Not Found" error.  Maybe the bugs don't want us to know.  :egads:

But I've wondered about this for a long time, probably since I read "Come And Go Mad" by Fredric Brown when I was a kid.  Anybody remember that one?
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#4 QueenTiye

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 04:09 PM

Another version of the same article:

http://phys.org/news...sciousness.html

It is indeed interesting, but I haven't anything to say about it at present.

QT

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#5 RJDiogenes

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 06:11 PM

^^  Thanks.

I don't doubt that bees or ants have consciousness-- I would imagine that any animal with a brain has that. As they said, all that takes is a midbrain, or the equivalent.  The really interesting question here, is whether a hive or colony of insects (or other creatures) can function as a neocortex to all those little bitty midbrains.
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#6 Orpheus

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:52 PM

After thinking about it, I decided we can even discuss consciousness/awareness meaningfully until we define it better for humans.

While I planned this as more than a one-a-day thread, I don't have a post today. My feeds are clogged with interesting Prince videos to watch.

So I'll leave you with these two videos. While you may be familiar with (or at least be able to identify) many of the individual scenes, I  hope that you will find more than a few that are particularly satisfying, mystifying -- or provoke questions. Don't be afraid to ask!





#7 RJDiogenes

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 06:14 PM

I feel like I've just come back from the Escherverse.
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#8 Orpheus

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:46 PM

And all I got was this damn Tesseract-shirt

#9 Orpheus

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:41 PM

I thought the details of the conversation in this video would be totally obvious to any interested layman. Mme OdJ disagrees.

So tell me, is this in-flight conversation:

a) pretty much common sense
b) largely comprehensible,
c) mostly comprehensible, but challenging and instructive
d) I caught most of the words, but I have a lot of questions about specific lines
e) Dude, I totally got it -- they were speaking English, right?



#10 RJDiogenes

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:21 PM

That's one of those Star Track things where they say all that technobubble stuff alla time, right?  Posted Image
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#11 Orpheus

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 11:48 PM



#12 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
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Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:59 AM

I wasn't able to view the link put up by Orpheus, about insect consciousness, but was able to look in on the one posted by Queen Tiye. I'll admit that I never gave the subject much if any thought before, but it does rather tickle my curiosity. It kind of takes me back to a sci-fi book I read as a kid about some people caught underground in a giant ant colony with larger than human sized ants who were anthromorphized for the sake of the story ( heck, even I wrote a short story about fleas in the same vein!).

    Anyway, the subject takes me back to a day at Lake Tahoe, maybe 15 years ago, where my wife and I were hiking a trail through the forest. I stepped off the trail to answer nature's call and inadvertently stepped on a built up hump of dried leaves and pine needles. Underneath the hump was a nest of wasps, the yellow jacket kind, and their angry buzzing gave me the hint that whatever consciousness they had at their disposal was aroused and directed at defending the homestead against the clumsy interloper. They came after me as I beat it back to the trail, yelling at my wife to run! Run we did but the wasps followed us for at least 20-30 yards, stinging me once, but getting my wife several times through her sweatshirt and once near her ear. We got my wife some stuff they recommended at the pharmacy in the village, Benadryl I think. It helped a little bit, but my wife had bouts of vertigo, nausea, and pain from the ear bite for several days.

    Were those wasps exercising and operating from a consciousness, group or otherwise? I'm guessing so, though I hadn't stopped to consider it at all at the time. But I'd tend to agree with Orpheus about better understanding our own awareness before endeavoring to psychoanalyze the insects. Where was my consciousness in stepping on the wasp's home in that careless manner like some Brobdingnagian lummox?

yadda

#13 Orpheus

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:28 PM

I need to try harder. Pretty much every day, I come across interesting things I mean to share, but they just sit in my to-do list, unposted.

This is a picture of the Serranía de Hornocal, a range of mountains that begins in the northern tip of Argentina, runs through the Alteplano (high plains) of Bolivia and into Peru. At points, it is as high as 4760 meters (15620 ft -- 2.9 miles!)

This isn't under any special lighting conditions, or through special filters. This is what it looks like, to the naked eye, pretty much every day.

a.jpg

It's particularly striking in contrast to the adjacent terrain.

a.jpg

Bonus trivium: This same "flatiron" geological structure gave rise to Semir Osmanagic's now-discredited claim of Bosnian Pyramids

#14 Orpheus

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 09:58 AM

I enjoyed this presentation on one of the major subtextual themes of Jurassic Park (and what's missing from the sequels)

Spielberg’s Subtext (by Mike Hill)

#15 Orpheus

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 07:42 AM

Rear Attachment point on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (modified 747 that carried the Space Shuttle)

a.jpg

b.jpg

#16 QueenTiye

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 02:06 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 05 June 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

I need to try harder. Pretty much every day, I come across interesting things I mean to share, but they just sit in my to-do list, unposted.

This is a picture of the Serranía de Hornocal, a range of mountains that begins in the northern tip of Argentina, runs through the Alteplano (high plains) of Bolivia and into Peru. At points, it is as high as 4760 meters (15620 ft -- 2.9 miles!)

This isn't under any special lighting conditions, or through special filters. This is what it looks like, to the naked eye, pretty much every day.

Attachment a.jpg

It's particularly striking in contrast to the adjacent terrain.

Attachment a.jpg

Bonus trivium: This same "flatiron" geological structure gave rise to Semir Osmanagic's now-discredited claim of Bosnian Pyramids

GORGEOUS!

QT

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#17 Themis

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 05:23 PM

Love the Argentina shots!!!
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#18 Orpheus

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 09:16 PM

It occurs to me that I don't post in this thread very much because I always want to say more, but rarely have time.

So I'm going to try ( again) to just post interesting/odd articles and if I don't have time to add background, so be it!

Which TV Shows Do Republicans [vs.] Democrats Rate The Highest?

#19 gsmonks

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 11:18 PM

The testing of animal intelligence has jumped by leaps and bounds recently due to better testing. Some animals are so intelligent that evidence of their intelligence didn't show up in tests.

For example, memory and food-location tests were set up for certain primates. In certain cases the primate in question seemed wholly unaware of the components of the test, making the test irrelevant. However, going back over the video evidence, a technician chanced to see what was happening when the test was no longer in session. Test food was buried with very little showing above-ground (I believe it was melons). The testers thought the primates were unable to notice the almost-buried food. It turned out that they were deliberately ignoring the almost-buried food so that they could come back later, uproot all of it, and scarf it down, without the others noticing.

Intelligence on this and higher levels has routinely been observed in birds belonging to the raven family. And there have been recent "discoveries" of tool-using fish. And Salticids (jumping spiders) have been found to have the same intelligence as crows/ravens/magpies, octopuses, cats, and dogs. As well, certain varieties of spiders also use tools. One species hangs rocks several feet off the ground, using them as anchor-points for webs built over large open spaces.

As I've said many times before, humans aren't all that intelligent. We humans have compartmentalised brains. While we have access to intelligence, this does not make us intelligent. Human behaviour is not the most sophisticated in the animal kingdom- far from it.

What humans do have, more than any other animal, is a huge abundance of arrogance and selfishness.
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#20 Orpheus

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 01:08 AM

A similar behavior has been seen in red squirrels, long believed to be flighty and forgetful --"squirrelly"-- about their nut stashes. Close observation by automated cameras has revealed that they are exquisitely aware of if hey are being observed (primarily by other squirrels, but apparently they don't trust human scientists/observers either) and deliberately bury their seed treasures in (less secure?) locations when observed, only to relocated them when they are confident hey are not being seen. Human scientists had assume they forgot the observed hiding locations and (if the scientists bothered to recheck the caches) attributed the missing nuts to random discovery/theft by other squirrels. Nope, the original squirrels just re-hid them.

Of course, I needn't dwell on the amazing physical/mental problem-solving of octopodes! Given their amazing physical skillset, they have never had any reason to develop their substantial problem solving abilities in most of the directions early human scientists crudely noted. Who cares about skyscrapers? They don't need them. They are 1000s of times as old as H. sapiens; we're just a blip on their radar, a mere transient challenge against whose depredations they still easily cope -- but I don't imagine that they aren't already adapting/changing.


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