Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Star Trek Beyond

Star Trek Kelvin Timeline Better than STID

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,226 posts

Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:34 PM

Posted Image


I loved this movie. Absolutely loved it. I'm still hyped from it. If you've hated the previous two movies I'd recommend giving this one a try because it's just so good. If I rated movies I'd give this one a 9/10.

The crew of the Enterprise is in the third year of their five year mission. After a rather disastrous attempt at a peace mission, the crew is heading to the new starbase named Yorktown for some R&R. Kirk is considering taking a vice admiral position because he's become tired of the missions on the Enterprise. He's also having something of a mid-life crisis because he's about to be older than his father ever was. They don't get to stay at the base long because an alien arrives saying her ship crashed on a planet in an unexplored nebula. The Enterprise heads out to offer aid when they are attacked by Krall and his horde of ships. The Enterprise is destroyed and the crew spread out across they planet. As they try to come together Krall starts to launch his final plan to attack the Federation.

This is definitely the best of the three Kelvin timeline movies and I'd even go so far as to say it stands next to some of the best Star Trek movies, period.

I know people thought this would be all action based on the trailers and while there's a lot of action in the movie, there's also a lot of character work and some good Star Trek themes as well. I'd say this movie does more and better with the characters than the previous two movies. It's still the Kirk/Spock/Bones show, but Chekov, Scotty, Sulu, and Uhura get a good amount of screen time as well and some nice character moments.

The action is simply stunning. Justin Lin definitely knows how to stage riveting, unique action set-pieces. The initial attack on the Enterprise is amazing. It's thrilling and exciting and sad all at the same time. A firefight featuring Kirk and Chekov in the crashed saucer section of the Enterprise is very cool. The final fight between Kirk and Krall takes place in Yorktown and is very inventive.

All that amazing action wouldn't matter though if we didn't care about the characters and the movie does a good job of making us care. There's great banter and energy between the characters and it feels like they have been together for three years and developed strong bonds. There's great moments of levity (this is a seriously funny movie) and drama between them all. Sulu's husband and daughter are briefly seen at the beginning of the movie at Yorktown, and when Sulu learns that Krall is targeting the station for destruction you can tell he's anxious to get there and stop the attack. It's subtle, but it's there.

The movie does pay tribute to Leonard Nimoy. The movie has Ambassador Spock die, and it affects Spock greatly and has him start to look at making changes in his life, especially in regards to Uhura and staying on the Enterprise. There's a nice scene between Spock and Bones when they're talking about Ambassador Spock and it feels like they're really talking about Leonard Nimoy.

There's a small scene at the end that I won't spoil but it's a nice tribute to not only Leonard Nimoy but the entire TOS cast. It definitely moved me.

The movie was also sad because Anton Yelchin is no longer with us, and he probably has more screen time in this movie than he had in the first two. There's a scene towards the end, and I'm sure this was unintentional, where Kirk gives a toast to absent friends and the camera looks at Chekov. It's a fleeting moment but made all the more poignant because of the real life tragedy. The film is dedicated to him and Nimoy.

The two new characters, Krall and Jaylah, are great additions to the movie universe. Krall is one of the better Trek baddies because he's not just a crazed conqueror. He has very real and understandable reasons for why he's going after the Federation. Not only that, but his reasons strike at the main themes of the Federation and Star Trek in general. ST has always been about humanity overcoming its limitations and bettering itself and achieving peace and finding strength in unity. Krall believes unity and peace are weaknesses that will doom the Federation. Considering the climate of 2016 so far (at least in America) a movie that embraces unity and peace as strengths is one that is desperately needed. Krall can also be a decently terrifying villain as well.

Jaylah is an awesome character. Yes, she's a great fighter but there's more to her character than that. She's also a really good engineer and she and Scotty form a bond. She has a tragic back story that was easy to guess but it works. I really hope she returns in future installments. She's not just here to provide eye candy.

For those that hated the Beastie Boys song in the first trailer I warn you that it's used in the actual movie but it's in probably one of the most awesome scenes in the movie and has a purpose and if I had been alone in that theater I would have been jumping out of my seat and cheering.

Oh, the Yorktown looks amazing. It's gorgeous and the design is crazy and stunning. I wouldn't mind an entire movie set on that starbase.

There's some nods to Star Trek: Enterprise in here with mentions of the Xindi, the Romulan War, the M.A.C.O.s and of course the NX-class. I was rather surprised by that but it was a nice way to tie the new timeline into the broader Star Trek mythology. Plus, as someone who loved Star Trek: Enterprise I appreciated the nods.

I think this was a great movie to help celebrate the 50th anniversary of the franchise. It felt more like Star Trek than Into Darkness did. It was a fresh, fun, action-packed, engaging movie with great characters and some stunning visuals. IMO, Justin Lin did for Star Trek what he did for the Fast and Furious franchise: he gave it a much needed boost and put it in a great spot to keep the franchise going. I really hope he directs the next movie.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#2 Omega

Omega

    Maktel shcree lotak meta setak Oz!

  • Moderator
  • 4,027 posts

Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:03 AM

He toasted absent friends? Damn. That's some subtle callback. And I just now realized that the three main actors missing from this scene have all died...
Posted Image

#3 RJDiogenes

RJDiogenes

    Idealistic Cynic

  • Demigod
  • 13,214 posts

Posted 22 July 2016 - 05:22 PM

^^ How I hate entropy.

View PostVirgil Vox, on 21 July 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

I loved this movie. Absolutely loved it. I'm still hyped from it. If you've hated the previous two movies I'd recommend giving this one a try because it's just so good. If I rated movies I'd give this one a 9/10.  
The trailers look absolutely awful, but I'm not surprised that it's the best of the three. Something about Simon Pegg makes me feel like he's really on the level.

Quote

The movie does pay tribute to Leonard Nimoy. The movie has Ambassador Spock die, and it affects Spock greatly and has him start to look at making changes in his life, especially in regards to Uhura and staying on the Enterprise. There's a nice scene between Spock and Bones when they're talking about Ambassador Spock and it feels like they're really talking about Leonard Nimoy.  
That's very nice.

Quote

The movie was also sad because Anton Yelchin is no longer with us, and he probably has more screen time in this movie than he had in the first two. There's a scene towards the end, and I'm sure this was unintentional, where Kirk gives a toast to absent friends and the camera looks at Chekov. It's a fleeting moment but made all the more poignant because of the real life tragedy. The film is dedicated to him and Nimoy.  
That must be tough to watch.

Quote

Considering the climate of 2016 so far (at least in America) a movie that embraces unity and peace as strengths is one that is desperately needed.  
That's for damn sure.  Good selling point.

Quote

There's some nods to Star Trek: Enterprise in here with mentions of the Xindi, the Romulan War, the M.A.C.O.s and of course the NX-class. I was rather surprised by that but it was a nice way to tie the new timeline into the broader Star Trek mythology. Plus, as someone who loved Star Trek: Enterprise I appreciated the nods.  
Good for them.  I loved Enterprise, too.
Please visit The RJDiogenes Store. Posted Image   And my Gallery. Posted Image And my YouTube Page. Posted Image And read Trunkards. Posted Image  And then there's my Heroes Essays.  Posted Image

#4 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,624 posts

Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:59 PM

Very enjoyable with the action not canceling out lots of room for great character moments. Jaylah would be a terrific addition to the crew and, not to be ghoulish, her skillset would make her a valid replacement for Chekov, however they intend to write him out of the films.

I liked that the film's essential conflict touched on a central paradox of TOS. Kirk believes that humans only thrive if they struggle and have obstacles to overcome but he's also in service to an organization dedicated to solving conflicts peacefully.
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#5 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 24 July 2016 - 06:56 AM

Typical Jerk-Jerk Abrams puke-fest. It's all shtick, overblown special defects, poorly paced, poorly written, bashes and thrashes around aimlessly. Regurgitated-barf CGI from every other bad sci-fi movie of the last 20 years, regurgitated-barf sound-defects from BattleFight L.A., Transfornicators, you name it.

The movie overall has the look of the junk you see in a K-Mart 99¢ clearance-bin, an endless, flashy poster with zero substance.

I could pull a better script out of my arse.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#6 zarkon

zarkon
  • Islander
  • 125 posts

Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:13 AM

Wow  :coolninja:

I see a new chance for a career shift here.

i would love to see what sort of different vision you would have, and I am ready to see your first movie.

New players in the movie business would be a great thing to have.   We can never have enough good entertainment.

:D

#7 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:27 PM

View Postzarkon, on 24 July 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Wow  :coolninja:

I see a new chance for a career shift here.

i would love to see what sort of different vision you would have, and I am ready to see your first movie.

New players in the movie business would be a great thing to have.   We can never have enough good entertainment.

:D

Should I tell you what I really think? ;)

Abrams stinks of shtick. When he gets his grubby hands on a project, he turns it into a made-for-television caricature of itself.

He's a lot like Steven Spewburg. Dumb as a bag of hammers, great at raising money for his projects, is a major suckhole when it comes to knowing all the industry insiders. Like Spewburg, his movies are amazing visually, but utterly lacking in substance.

Look what happened when Abrams got his grubby mitts on Star Bores. It was awful! I made myself sit through 3/4 of the movie hoping things would improve. When I realised I'd wasted my money, I got up and left. By all accounts I saved myself from the rest of that barf-fest.

I'm dead-serious when I say I could pull a better script out of my arse. On YooBoob, I said as much on one of the trailer videos. Lots of flaming and profanity erupted, of course, so I posted links to a few of my fan-fic stories and told them to suck on it.

Here's the kicker- not one of the flamers responded- STILL haven't responded- yet over 400 people have read my stories since then.

So what does that tell you, besides the fact that I can put my money where my mouth is?

Industry insiders have wrecked Trek. Wrecked Trek. H'm . . . has a woody kind of sound . . . wrecked Trek . . .
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#8 zarkon

zarkon
  • Islander
  • 125 posts

Posted 24 July 2016 - 11:04 PM

Well I do agree that I miss what was special about the original.

Now a lot of stuff on the screen is filled with special effects.

That does seem to bring bodies into the seats, so it would seem that is the direction we are currently stuck with.

I would hope a normal TV series could bring things back to the heart of the original, but now the crazy people in charge at CBS decided everyone watches TV on their iphone or ipad

Therefore, stick it on the internet and let people pay to watch.  I sure hope with paying, there are no commercials to break the flow of each episode.

I am not sure how all that works, since I still watch TV on an actual TV;-)

Hopefully, you get a chance to have what you create find it's way out to a larger audience.  

if nothing else, using the internet to show content doesn't require millions like a monster movie does  :piratebuds:

#9 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 25 July 2016 - 02:02 AM

Ah, but it's distribution that's the problem.

See, the big lie these days is that if you can't land a print publisher, or get your movie distributed, you can always go to Amazon.

But Amazon is lying through its teeth when it claims that you'll have access to world-wide markets.

Say you and your little crew make an independent movie. You write a great script, get a competent gaggle of actors together, gets your hands on the same crappy CGI that Trek TNG used. They used a store-bought CGI system you can buy at your local London Drugs. Hey, you're all set! You make a great sci-fi movie, and if you could just get it in front of people, you'd make money.

And therein lies the lies, and the problem. Companies like Amazon wheeze and chirp and try to suck you in with promises of access to markets.

But it's a steaming load of bollocks. Amazon will bury your product the same way that all the big players do. They'll make the pitch, suck you in, you'll go looking for your book, or video, or movie, and that's when the assholes at Amazon will tell you how the system really works. Only the top 100 or so get exposure in the form of free advertising (they don't need) on the Amazon websites. Your entry is there somewhere, if you go looking for it, but the only way to find it is to do a search of the exact title.

In other words, the chances of the public stumbling on to your masterpiece and discovering it are exactly zero. Zilch. Nada.

Companies like Amazon claim they're helping to level the playing-field. They're not. They're lying sacks of dog poo.

YooBoob is equally rigged. Ever upload something, then try to find it? That's how you find out the game is rigged.

The bottom line is marketing and distribution, and both cost big bucks. If you don't have deep pockets, you're not in the game. Period.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#10 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 25 July 2016 - 02:09 AM

Oh, and even if you can get something to go viral? I have on-line books that are going viral at this very moment. One Lost Summer has just shot through the 130,000-reader mark. We're not talking a cute animal or a nut-shot video here. We're talking a freaking book, and a cheesy romance novel at that.

Do the big publishers give a rat's arse? No, because even though up to 4000 people are reading my book per day, there's only certain hand-jobs and lap-dances the industry-incest buggers will look at. And who are they? Other industry-insiders, of course. They keep track of who's handing out the blow-jobs, and if it's not to something they know, they don't count it.

Worse- they're absolutely dismissive of anyone who's not playing their corrupt little insider-game. If you don't  jump through their hoops and hand out hand-jobs to people they know, you may as well not exist.

And as for the language I choose to describe the matter, yes, the business really is that crass and incestuous.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#11 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 25 July 2016 - 03:18 PM

And as far as Star Bletch Beyond goes . . .

If a movie is really good, you remember it. When a movie is really bad, you come away not remembering much about it.

The original series, I can still remember the story titles, most of the stories, endless exact details.

Abrams junk? The characters are only mugging and imitating the original characters. The original cast members were acting. The current cast is copying, which is shtick, about on a level of a Seinfeld episode, the lowest of the low.

They'd have done far better to start from scratch, with a new cast, new crew, new stories, million-dollar script, minimal special defects.

Edited by gsmonks, 25 July 2016 - 03:20 PM.

Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#12 zarkon

zarkon
  • Islander
  • 125 posts

Posted 26 July 2016 - 11:17 AM

That was an eye opening dialogue that I had no idea was happening.

Thanks for sharing how some of that really works.

Like most of us, we always figured, money talks and unless you are in the club, its pretty hard to get noticed.

i am hoping this new TV series does something from scratch, but it may not reach a large enough audience to count since they plan on hiding out in the Internet.

One can only hope   :shrug:

#13 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:16 PM

There is always hope with a series. A series gives the makers the ability to respond to praise/criticism. TNG was gratingly awful when it started out, and improved somewhat over the years. I could've done without Gates McFadden's perma-smirk. Jonathan Frakes always struck me as a lightweight. Will Wheaton is a good actor (Stand By Me) but had an awful plot-concept to deal with, later to live down.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#14 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 01 August 2016 - 11:33 AM

Hi Virgil! I loved it, too. It's not a TWOK-level masterpiece but I can't think of a single other Trek movie I think is actually better than Beyond.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#15 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,226 posts

Posted 03 August 2016 - 09:54 PM

Quote

Hi Virgil! I loved it, too. It's not a TWOK-level masterpiece but I can't think of a single other Trek movie I think is actually better than Beyond.

Hi back. Same here. Beyond definitely stuck with me, and it was such an enjoyable film. While it's an epic action-adventure, it's not striving to be an epic action-action, if that makes sense. It felt like Into Darkness was trying to be epic and grand and dark and bring in one of the more memorable Trek villains and it just became a mess. Beyond focused on telling a good story and didn't bother with trying to be this weighty entry in the Trek saga and I think that's what made it work. Well, that and the ensemble. I think this film, more than any of the others, utilized the entire cast better and more often. Yes, it's still the Jim/Spock/Bones show but everyone got a decent amount of screen time and they all offered something to the proceedings.

Quote

Very enjoyable with the action not canceling out lots of room for great character moments. Jaylah would be a terrific addition to the crew and, not to be ghoulish, her skillset would make her a valid replacement for Chekov, however they intend to write him out of the films.

Don't worry, I was thinking the same thing. It's horrible about Yelchin, of course, but at least with Jaylah they can bring in an already established character to join the crew instead of creating a new one from scratch. Plus it will add more women to the bridge crew, which would be nice.

Quote

I liked that the film's essential conflict touched on a central paradox of TOS. Kirk believes that humans only thrive if they struggle and have obstacles to overcome but he's also in service to an organization dedicated to solving conflicts peacefully.

I also liked that Kirk and Krall were similar, on some ways. Krall wasn't one for diplomacy, and didn't like the idea of a more peaceful organization. He was thrust into his role as captain and he was unprepared for it. The same could be said of Kirk. He had no intention of joining Starfleet and he definitely became captain before he was ready for it. Now, after several years in deep space, he's ready to call it quits. It's not hard to imagine a younger Kirk, one who had just become captain of the Enterprise, going down a similar route to Krall if the Enterprise crash landed and Starfleet didn't come to the rescue.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#16 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 04 August 2016 - 04:11 AM

Is it just me, or does Star Trek Beyond come across as an incomplete sentence? Beyond? Beyond what, exactly?
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#17 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,213 posts

Posted 06 August 2016 - 06:50 PM

Is it just me, or was it odd that the villain left his original ship he was Captain of, after Jaylay made it her home?

For example, he must have know where he ship was... and suddenly it disappears one day (sooner or later after Jaylay escaped). Maybe he didn't care to recapture Jaylay much, but a ship he knew where it was suddenly disappeared. At the very least it is cause for investigation to make sure there isn't someone or something encroaching on your planet that you don't want to be :D Perhaps he did and he and/or his minion(s) got caught or hurt by one of her traps, and since he had already abandoned his ship it was easier to just leave it alone.

Another explanation is that he is the one that hid his ship, and Jaylay stumbled across it already camouflaged and abandoned and just set up base.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#18 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,859 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:34 PM

I just this movie today.

I am going to begin by stating that I REALLY hated the two previous films for multiple reasons.

Now, a bit of a review from me.  Warning, some spoilers coming up...



I LOVED this movie!  First and foremost, it brought a sense of adventure and unity that the other two movies severely lacked.  When the crew were stranded on that planet, we saw little details that really gave a sense of wonder, like those swarms of insects flying around when Spock and McCoy were about to enter that cavern.  And the unity aspect... EVERYONE had some great character moments.  A very well rounded movie actually utilizing the entire cast.

The destruction of the Enterprise... going in, I was actually happy that I get to see this Enterprise destroyed.  I HATE how this one looks.  It looks too much like a hot rod than a starship of exploration.  And Engineering looking like an industrial facility of the 20th century, while ALL other sections of the ship look like a futuristic ship... that always bothered me.  And THANK THE PROPHETS there was no lens flare in this movie.

Having said all that, I have to say I felt very sad watching the Enterprise get gutted the way she did.  It truly was heart wrenching seeing it literally ripped apart like it was, a piece at a time.  I was actually glad they built a new Enterprise at the end.  I do wish it looked more like the original, though.  Or at least look like the movie version.  But now, I can accept it.

The cast brought their 'A' game here.  And Krall... great villain.  Very well cast, and you can actually see his side of the equation and understand it.  He even garnered some sympathy, given how he became that way.

This was a great way to celebrate STAR TREK turning 50.  It had a great message, a sense of adventure, and had the spirit of the series that was missing from the first two movies.

My only real gripe is with the Franklin... NX-326?  Saying it was the first Warp 4 vessel would put it before STAR TREK:  ENTERPRISE, and the design is slightly different than what we have seen of other NX class ships (Enterprise and Columbia).  Maybe it was built during the Romulan War and the dialogue was just a glitch, or maybe the crew just remembered it wrong, since it IS over 100 years ago.

I would honestly go see this movie again.  But more important... I actually can't wait to see the next movie.  Of course, hoping Simon Pegg is one of the writers.  I can actually accept this Kelvin timeline now because of this movie, and I am speaking as someone who STAUNCHLY hated the new timeline.

Edited by FarscapeOne, 13 August 2016 - 06:36 PM.


#19 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,859 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:00 PM

Another thing I loved... so many lines taken straight from the series or movies.  And they weren't really gratuitous, either.  Like Kirk saying to his crew, "There is no such thing as the unknown.  Only temporarily hidden."  And Chekov saying that Scotch was invented by a little old lady from Leningrad.

#20 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 5,034 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 07:13 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 13 August 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

Another thing I loved... so many lines taken straight from the series or movies.  And they weren't really gratuitous, either.  Like Kirk saying to his crew, "There is no such thing as the unknown.  Only temporarily hidden."  And Chekov saying that Scotch was invented by a little old lady from Leningrad.

Yeah . . . that's precisely why it's gratuitous shtick.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Star Trek, Kelvin Timeline, Better than STID

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users