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The Flash: Flashpoint

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#1 Virgil Vox

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 09:02 AM

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WHAT WOULD YOU SACRIFICE TO HAVE EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED? - Barry (Grant Gustin) is living his dream life - his parents are alive, he's asked Iris West (Candice Patton) on a date and he can finally be a normal guy as Central City has another speedster, Kid Flash (Keiynan Lonsdale), running around saving the city. When Barry starts forgetting parts of his old life, the Reverse Flash (guest star Matt Letscher) taunts his nemesis and tells him that there will be serious repercussions for Barry and the ones he loves if he continues to live in this alternate universe. In addition to losing his memories, his powers will also start to fade. When disaster strikes, Barry must decide if he wants to continue to live in this world as Barry Allen or return to his universe as The Flash.

"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
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#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:35 PM

Loved this episode.

Loved the difference in the characters, and how their lives changed. As far as villains go though...While Zoom was more creepy, and more menacing, Reverse Flash is just more bada$$. Making Barry ask him to go back and kill his mother...that is just SO wrong, and oddly so right for that character.

Here's my problem though....

If they went back and restored the original timeline, then why the change in Joe and Iris's relationship? And if that's changed, God only knows what else has changed?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#3 Virgil Vox

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:51 AM

I thought this was an okay premiere. The hype about Flashpoint didn't really live up to the actual event. There weren't as many changes as I thought there would be, and the changes that did exist weren't really explained, like why Joe suddenly became a bad cop and father.

The episode also didn't feel like it earned Barry's decision to put things back by letting his mom get killed again. This new reality wasn't horrible. His parents were alive. He had scored a date with Iris. He was doing great at his job. Wally was saving the city as Kid Flash. Cisco was a billionaire. Caitlin was happy. Yes, Wally didn't have the team in place like Barry did but he was still doing a good job of protecting everyone. Seriously, Wally getting hurt was really what made Barry decide to put things back, and even then that felt like a cop-out. We weren't given a reason for why Wally wasn't speed-healing. He just wasn't, and so would probably die. It would have had a greater impact if Wally did actually die from getting stabbed, I think.

Okay, the night of Nora's murder has become extremely convoluted. You have original Flash and RF there fighting it out and RF killing Nora. You have season 1 Flash going back in time but not stopping her murder. Then you have season 2 Flash going back to stop RF. Then season 3 RF and Flash go there to make sure Nora is murdered. Let's hope this is the last time her murder is revisited.

There were some good parts of the episode. It was nice seeing Barry just loving his life and living with his parents and just being so completely happy. Wally as Kid Flash rocked, and I hope he becomes KF in the real timeline as well.

The fight against the Rival was great. They really went all out there. Loved the two tornadoes.

Hmm, very interesting ending. I'm not sure if that was Mirror Master writing on the mirror and he's just working for Alchemy, or if that was Alchemy himself writing. Either way, it was a creepy scene and it looks like he's going to make the guy into the Rival in this timeline.

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As far as villains go though...While Zoom was more creepy, and more menacing, Reverse Flash is just more bada$$. Making Barry ask him to go back and kill his mother...that is just SO wrong, and oddly so right for that character.

I agree. Reverse Flash was so perfectly evil here. You could make the argument that he was on the right side, since he was trying to convince Barry to return the timeline to its original setting, but even that was self-serving. If this timeline became set, then it would probably completely change RF, maybe even wipe him from existence.

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If they went back and restored the original timeline, then why the change in Joe and Iris's relationship? And if that's changed, God only knows what else has changed?

I'm not sure why the change, though I doubt it will be the only one. I bet there will be subtle changes to the entire show. It makes sense that messing with the timeline will result in changes, and there has to be consequences for Barry creating the Flashpoint. However, that's why I didn't like the show doing the Flashpoint thing anyways. We've spent two years getting to know these characters and seeing their relationships grow and now random things have been changed and that could potentially end up sucking quite a bit.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#4 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:40 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 05 October 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:


The episode also didn't feel like it earned Barry's decision to put things back by letting his mom get killed again. This new reality wasn't horrible. His parents were alive. He had scored a date with Iris. He was doing great at his job. Wally was saving the city as Kid Flash. Cisco was a billionaire. Caitlin was happy. Yes, Wally didn't have the team in place like Barry did but he was still doing a good job of protecting everyone. Seriously, Wally getting hurt was really what made Barry decide to put things back, and even then that felt like a cop-out. We weren't given a reason for why Wally wasn't speed-healing. He just wasn't, and so would probably die. It would have had a greater impact if Wally did actually die from getting stabbed, I think.

I agree, they should've explained the changes more, and explained why Wally wasn't healing. I would've also loved to know why Joe was a drunk and bad father. The reason, I think, they didn't go into that much detail is the other CW shows. If the Flash was a single show, which technically it is, then we would've had at least 3 or 4 episodes of Flashpoint. But since the CW is connecting all the shows together, they couldn't do that long of a Flashpoint story, without it running into the other shows; since character from one show often appear on the others. Even so, I was expecting a 2 episode Flashpoint story arc.

Although, perhaps we'll still get that...sort of. only instead of actual Flashpoint, it will be Barry trying to undo the changes Flashpoint brought about????

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Okay, the night of Nora's murder has become extremely convoluted. You have original Flash and RF there fighting it out and RF killing Nora. You have season 1 Flash going back in time but not stopping her murder. Then you have season 2 Flash going back to stop RF. Then season 3 RF and Flash go there to make sure Nora is murdered. Let's hope this is the last time her murder is revisited.

So agree. And we didn't even see the final Barry, just the final RF. And given how much time they spent on Barry crying about not saving his mother, I'm SO hoping they don't go the whole crying over asking RF to kill his mother guilt plot line.

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The fight against the Rival was great. They really went all out there. Loved the two tornadoes.

I also loved it. It was a nice throwback to the pilot episode. Cisco even threw out the name of Weather Wizard.

I'm in the middle of rewatching Season 2 on Netflixs, just got to the Earth 2 episodes. When Barry, Cisco and Wells go back to Earth 2, there is a scene between Wells and Cisco where Cisco says "I imagine a universe where I'm wealthy, sort of a (can't recall exact name he used). How odd that is what happened in Season 3

Oh, and a Easter Egg side note if you will. The new captain, in the Flashpoint, Julio Mendez...The actor playing him was the same actor the played Barry's lab assistant in the 90's series, and the lab assistant's name was Julio Mendez.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#5 Cybersnark

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:52 AM

I've been thinking Julio needed to turn up in this. Hopefully we'll see the non-Flashpoint version of him eventually.
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#6 sierraleone

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:34 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 05 October 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

I would've also loved to know why Joe was a drunk and bad father.

I wonder what happened in the new time-line with Iris's and Wally's mother?

I don't see how Barry's mother dying or not changes that time line, consider that happened after Iris's mom split....

Maximum change: Someway/somehow Iris & Wally's parents cross each other's path again while both of their kids are, well, still kids. (perhaps Joe's ex had checked in on Joe in both timelines, but in the one that Joe had taken on Barry she decided against inserting herself in Barry, Joe & Iris's lives again?).

Minimal change: Same as we know it, Iris & Wally meet as Wally is in his late teens when their mother is terminally ill. Perhaps Joe having his adopted-son Barry around helped Joe in numerous ways emotionally. Joe had wider support network with Barry and gang around, and Barry really helped Joe through processing the grief and self-directed anger over his lost time with Wally.

Either situation could cause emotional problems, that not handled could lead to what we saw. Though if it was maximal change, would'd think that would affect Iris too, because Joe's problems would have likely started sooner.

Edited by sierraleone, 06 October 2016 - 05:48 PM.

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#7 Virgil Vox

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:16 AM

Something I just thought of concerning the night of Nora's murder. When Reverse Flash originally traveled back to kill her, he lost all his speed and that's what made him impersonate Wells. However, that RF faded from existence when the Flashpoint RF showed up and killed Nora. He obviously still had his speed since he whisked Barry back to the present. If he didn't get stuck in the past, then did he impersonate Wells? That could account for any changes in the timeline. I really hope the show addresses that problem.

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I don't see how Barry's mother dying or not changes that time line, consider that happened after Iris's mom split....

I don't either. Everything should have gone back to normal, with the exception of whether or not RF became Wells. There shouldn't be any changes, unless for whatever reason Flashpoint created ripples in the timeline that screwed things up.

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If the Flash was a single show, which technically it is, then we would've had at least 3 or 4 episodes of Flashpoint. But since the CW is connecting all the shows together, they couldn't do that long of a Flashpoint story, without it running into the other shows; since character from one show often appear on the others. Even so, I was expecting a 2 episode Flashpoint story arc.

I think they could have gotten away with doing two or three episodes devoted to Flashpoint. The other shows wouldn't have to acknowledge it, really. I mean, Supergirl is in another universe. Legends of Tomorrow didn't interact with The Flash at all last season so they could avoid him. The only show that might have been affected was Arrow, and they can ignore The Flash until the big cross-over. That would have given the show a few episodes to devote to Flashpoint if they wanted to.

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Oh, and a Easter Egg side note if you will. The new captain, in the Flashpoint, Julio Mendez...The actor playing him was the same actor the played Barry's lab assistant in the 90's series, and the lab assistant's name was Julio Mendez.

Nice catch. I didn't recognize him at all.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman



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