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President-elect [the post election thread]

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#41 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:26 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 12 November 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Someone here said no one wanted an Obama third term? Maybe not, but he faced so much obstructionism it is hard to even know, besides dealing the 2007 economic crisis, the ACA, and repeal of DADT (all in the first 2 years), what Obama's presidency would have looked like if he hadn't faced unprecedented obstruction front he GOP the last 6 years.

I said I didn't want a third Obama term.

You're right, about the GOP obstructing Obama. I concede that point. Just like if the Democrats had taken the house or the senate, or both, I'm pretty sure they would be obstructing President Trump. That's what happens in a divided government. Now what's SUPPOSE to happen in a divided government is both sides get together, work their sh*t out, and come up with compromises. Essentially taking from both sides, to get something done, with neither side getting all of what they want. Sadly that's no longer how it works, now we have both sides literally digging in their heels, putting their hands over their ears like little kids, and saying "No, no, no". A prime example of that is what the GOP did about Obama's Supreme Court nomination....

Now part of we was happy that Obama didn't get to put another person on the bench; the childish part of me was the one that was happy. The realistic part of me shook his head and said: "This is going to come back and bite you idiots on the a$$, when it's the other way around." And it will, the precedent has been established. And when it's the democrats in power, and a republican as President...the democrats will probably do the same thing in a similar situation. Now what I, personally, would love to see happen is for President Trump, after taking the oath of office, to I guess renominate Merrick Garland. Let the Congress vote no on him if they want to, but at least give him the respect of a up or down vote.

No, I don't think it will happen. And truth be told, if Trump did do that, the conservative right would literally loosing their minds. So I really don't see it happening.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#42 sierraleone

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:40 AM

I just thought… some say this thread has become about bashing Trump. Um, does any disagree with how people are describing Trump? How appropriate or accurate words/language is in context is subjective, even if their definition isn't (though use and definition changes), and sometimes people feel like words/language are wielded to label negatively and insult and silence, instead of furthering dialogue. I think both sides feel hurt by this process, when people aren't treated as people.

With Trump though, yes, he is a person, but how does sexist or misogynist not describe the way he treats and talks about women? (And no, treating a couple women professionally and decently does not negate this).

Maybe I am in a liberal bubble, but please clarify what you mean by insult? Insults can be true, I guess.
ETA, or as the old adage goes: The truth hurts.

It can definitely have a negative effect of shutting down dialogue sometimes. Using the sexist and misogynist example again, people who have experienced or studied it, and understand the pervasiveness of it in our culture, understand that those terms describe a range of behaviours and ideas. But using it as short-hand term to describe something they know intimately, and perhaps rally like-minded/similarly experienced people, does nothing to forward the discussion with those to whom this experience or knowledge is alien to.

The questions is…. How can one explain this to them? Even if there wasn't the acrimony, and people didn't mind feel uncomfortable (which apparently is the worst thing ever), people don't know how, and/or don't have the time, to listen and learn from each other. People are also lazy, and don't want to have to do the work of thinking about and respecting other people's p.o.v and experiences, to think about issues that don't affect them, and how to take that into consideration in their day-to-day life and interactions. They feel they shouldn't have to do so, which is entitlement, IMHO.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 November 2016 - 12:05 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#43 Cait

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 11:58 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 November 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

But if this thread is going to continue being nothing but a echo chamber to bash President Elect Trump and his supporters, the title of the thread should be changed to reflect that.

Nope.  The thread title is appropriate for what was intended, and what occurred.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#44 sierraleone

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 02:33 PM

I am reading an article by a Russian-American journalist, who lived under Putin, titled "Autocracy: Rules for Survival". It describes why neither we, nor our institutions, should be acting as if this this normal, as many civil servants and institutions have been doing this week. And then gives six rules for surviving an autocracy, and then expanded on/gave explanations for said rules.

I will share a bit of each of the rules, go the link above for the full article.

Quote

Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable.

We have certainly seen lots of this. I think this human tendency could apply to many subjects.

Quote

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Consider the financial markets this week... Confronted with political volatility, the markets become suckers for calming rhetoric from authority figures. So do people. Panic can be neutralized by falsely reassuring words about how the world as we know it has not ended. It is a fact that the world did not end on November 8 nor at any previous time in history. Yet history has seen many catastrophes, and most of them unfolded over time. That time included periods of relative calm.

Life has boring moments, it will not be four years of sheer terror, but don't let that make you complacent.

Quote

Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed. The capture of institutions in Turkey has been carried out even faster, by a man once celebrated as the democrat to lead Turkey into the EU. Poland has in less than a year undone half of a quarter century’s accomplishments in building a constitutional democracy.

Of course, the United States has much stronger institutions… Both Clinton and Obama in their speeches stressed the importance and strength of these institutions. The problem, however, is that many of these institutions are enshrined in political culture rather than in law, and all of them—including the ones enshrined in law—depend on the good faith of all actors to fulfill their purpose and uphold the Constitution.

The national press is likely to be among the first institutional victims of Trumpism. There is no law that requires the presidential administration to hold daily briefings, none that guarantees media access to the White House. Many journalists may soon face a dilemma long familiar to those of us who have worked under autocracies: fall in line or forfeit access. There is no good solution (even if there is a right answer), for journalism is difficult and sometimes impossible without access to information.

Trump wanted to drain the swamp so he could flood it with raw sewage, as is evidenced by his inner circle and the talk regarding cabinet picks as well as other posts.

Quote

Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock. This will lead people to call you unreasonable and hysterical, and to accuse you of overreacting. It is no fun to be the only hysterical person in the room. Prepare yourself.

We are adaptable creatures and will become accustom to new norms. We have already seen this campaign normalized increasingly outrageous things. Ensuring that we don't become numb to these things, and maintaining the capacity for outrage, is going to be hard work….

Quote

Rule #5: Don’t make compromises. Like Ted Cruz... Republican politicians have fallen into line. Conservative pundits who broke ranks... will return to the fold. Democrats in Congress will begin to make the case for cooperation, for the sake of getting anything done—or at least, they will say, minimizing the damage. Nongovernmental organizations, many of which are reeling... will grasp at chances to work with the new administration. This will be fruitless—damage cannot be minimized, much less reversed, when mobilization is the goal—but worse, it will be soul-destroying. In an autocracy, politics as the art of the possible is in fact utterly amoral.

And people will be called out on it when they do, and those in power will try to silence people by ignoring them, talking over them, talking down to them, insulting them, destroying reputations, and ruining people's livelihoods. Until they have position themselves enough to have the power to do worse.  

Quote

Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either. Failure to imagine the future may have lost the Democrats this election.

:(

Edited by sierraleone, 12 November 2016 - 03:05 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#45 sierraleone

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 03:20 PM

Do you know what is going to be the worst…. (ok, that statement denotes a total lack of imagination….).

The Republicans have been acting like the Democrats and Obama were trying for an autocratic abusive take over for the last 8 years, despite no evidence…. They have been proven wrong (or I suppose, will be so Jan 20), but I imagine that they will, un-ironically in their view, try to make the opposition into chicken-littles, and laugh at the opposition, and mock them for being chicken-littles, with no insight that that is close to how they have been for 8 years.

I really really hope we are being chicken-littles.

However, based on who Donald Trump has told us he is and what he is for, I will not be dismissed into silence, or made to feel shame for recognizing the obvious potential for disaster and crisis ahead.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 November 2016 - 05:15 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 Elara

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 04:05 PM

View PostOmega, on 11 November 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Wait, wait. NOW you're concerned about disrespecting the office of the President?  I think you must be joking, and if so, hysterical!

To be fair to LoTS, he was kind to Obama and happy that he won:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 04 November 2008 - 11:11 PM, said:

Anything I would say right now could be considered gloating...and I really don't want to do that. So all I'll say is: I'm glad Obama won.

However, to expect any of us to be polite about a "man" that has said the things he has about women/all minorities, and has been elected as our president, is kidding him or herself. It's bad enough that most Republicans have been saying for years that women have no right to their own body, but this creep has flat out said that he has a right to have any woman's body. This is not my president.
El
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#47 Mooky

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 04:19 PM

View PostNorville, on 11 November 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Well, Mark, be happy that the ACA will likely be repealed. Too bad that doesn't make everyone happy.

Like the thousands of people who signed up right after Trump got elected (in protest, I'm guessing), according to TIME.

Also, according to ObamaCare Facts.com, B4 the ACA, 47 million people were uninsured, and as of February 2016, roughly 20 million people are insured.

Edited by Mooky, 12 November 2016 - 04:34 PM.


#48 sierraleone

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:10 PM

You know, some people say that Trump is incompetent. Consider who he surrounds himself with, that doesn't give me any heart.
And people thought the same thing about G.W. Bush.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#49 Cait

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:10 PM

I'll point it out again.  This election is not business as usual.  Trump got elected by going outside the political norm and now his voters expect the rest of us to go back to the norms.  Really?  Shatter all of our norms, normalize sexual assault, normalize racism, normalize hatred of immigrants, normalize back channel discussion with bad world players, normalize the crudest behavior I've ever seen in politics, but now that he's won, we all go back to antebellum-Trump and accept that he will now be a regular President?  Really?  What rock have you been hiding under for the past 18 months?

Look at this reaction.  I mean look at it.  I've been through a lot of elections and the losers never took to the streets for days.  People never gave advice on medical care they should get now, before it goes away [advice from PP is to get an IUD now before the inauguration] .  Families never had to plan what to do when the family was torn apart by ICE sweeps.  People are afraid and for good reason.   LGBT may have all their gains wiped away. Women .. women now have the king of rape culture as a President, which will only lead to more sexual assaults in the future for all of us.  I don't care if you can't see this, it will happen.  Who will stop it?  The leader of our country is proud of his ability to get whatever he wants from a woman regardless of consent.  Others will take their cue from him.

People are afraid and for good reason.  it's not just liberal policies vs. conservative ones?  I wish it was.

This is not the normal aftermath of an election, so STFU about your normal expectations.  This can't be compared to anything in our past.  So don't try.  Don't try to normalize an election that was never even close to normal.  Don't tell me what to do now that Trump is President.  It is not like accepting Bush 43 or Obama or hell even Clinton42.  Please do not reach into your hip pocket and pull out your euphemisms for how we should act after this election.  

It is not business as usual.  Stop trying to wrap your head around this by hiding your head in past post election cycles.  You're gonna miss the point.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#50 Cait

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:14 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 12 November 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

You know, some people say that Trump is incompetent. Consider who he surrounds himself with, that doesn't give me any heart.
And people thought the same thing about G.W. Bush.

Good comparison.  Look what happened in Iraq.  Look at 9/11.  Look at the financial meltdown of 2008.  We've been paying for it all ever since.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#51 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:44 PM

I just find it highly ironic that the Democrats, and the left in general, lost their minds when Trump wouldn't say he would accept the results of the election if he lost. And now it is the Democrats and the Left who have lost their minds, and aren't accepting the results of the election.

As for those protesters...I'm wondering how many of those people out in the streets, rioting and crying like little b**ches, actually went and, you know, voted?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#52 sierraleone

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:58 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 November 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I just find it highly ironic that the Democrats, and the left in general, lost their minds when Trump wouldn't say he would accept the results of the election if he lost. And now it is the Democrats and the Left who have lost their minds, and aren't accepting the results of the election.

Point? With that statement/action of his (among many others) he represented a dangerous deviation from the civic American norms. He still does.

Quote

As for those protesters...I'm wondering how many of those people out in the streets, rioting and crying like little b**ches, actually went and, you know, voted?

Again, point? How does that refute their points? That is like arguing that if someone uses any oil products that not only are they not serious about climate change, that they are wrong about climate change.

Enough with the put-downs and red-herrings. Clearly explain how Trump has consistently shown he will respect American civic norms and people's rights, and that there is absolutely no reason to be critically worried about a Trump Presidency. If that is your position and you can't clearly explain it. Stop. wasting. our. time.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 November 2016 - 06:12 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#53 yadda yadda

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 06:27 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 November 2016 - 12:58 AM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 12 November 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

YADDA: Mark, the thing you don't seem to understand is that while you are forming your strategies to deal with the election aftermath and extend your advice to the rest of us here is that you evidently consider this man, this president-elect, sane and rational, with some level of personal integrity and self control. I think the majority of us here to whom you are condescending and lecturing about observing protocol and to stop being so outraged have adjudged the man bereft of those qualities and a significant danger to our livelihoods, civil rights, and quite possibly our lives. In fact I must tell you that as far as I'm concerned you popping up here after a year or more of absence to trot out Trump campaign drivel has increased my level of outrage exponentially and am toying with telling you how I truly feel  about your contribution in two short and terse words not within the protocols here. I'll bow to civility this time by rebutting your proffered advice by extending my own to you. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson from a movie I liked, "go peddle crazy somewhere else. We're full up here."

And THAT right there is why Trump is President elect right now. The Liberal Elite, who feel their opinions matter more then everyone else's (Not necessarily you Yadda) but you are espousing the Liberal Elite line, so pardon me for lumping you in with them. But the Liberal Elite, with their superiority attitude, just don't GET how angry the average middle class, small business owner, and non business owner, feels. Every time we complain about the way things are under Obama we get called racist, bigot, and what not. When Hillary was running, we were called sexist, deplorable, homophobic, and what not...all because we didn't agree with a female criminal. Which left us with only Trump to choose.

LoTS, I'm not all that liberal, I'm a moderate. I actually envision some aspects of conservatism as helpful to the political discussion. And I am not by any stretch a member of any elite, unless it's the group of Americans that try to stay studiously informed. My opinions aren't superior to anyone elses, but they ARE mine...that's a right guaranteed me by equal protection provisions of our Constitution...for the next couple of months anyway. I am average middle class, so don't tell me that I don't know how I feel. I realize you don't favor or embrace logic, but your feelings of having been accused or perceived as racist, bigot, whatever for complaining about Obama are just that, feelings. Not fact. You've yanked out that whiny mantra many times here before, that people call you racist and bigot because of your Obama complaints. Who ever did that? Anyone? The only time you were slightly tarred with the brush of racism was for uttering racist terminology, offending many here, not for complaining about Obama's presidency or policies.

As for whether or not during this past campaign if you felt you belonged in Hillary's basket of deplorables, that's on you. She was referring to the Trump supporters who were also KKK. And the ones shouting JEW-S-A!! And the ones flocking to and screaming in full-throated unison for Trump's message of race and religious hatred, misogyny, gay bashing, Second Amendment electoral remedies, and ignoring the tenets of the Constitution. Those were/are the deplorables. Because that's what defined that basket's contents. Not because they didn't agree with a female criminal, who by the way has no criminal record. Since you're so appalled that we "liberal elitists" are such cranky-face sore losers, critical of your CheetoPrez, maybe you could set a proper example for us and apologize for your lie of labeling Hillary as a criminal. I won't hold my breath.

#54 Cait

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 06:37 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 November 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I just find it highly ironic that the Democrats, and the left in general, lost their minds when Trump wouldn't say he would accept the results of the election if he lost. And now it is the Democrats and the Left who have lost their minds, and aren't accepting the results of the election.

As for those protesters...I'm wondering how many of those people out in the streets, rioting and crying like little b**ches, actually went and, you know, voted?

You do know there is a big difference between a candidate not accepting the results, and people being afraid of the consequences of the results don't you? I mean, tell me you know the difference.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#55 Mark

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 06:39 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 12 November 2016 - 02:22 AM, said:

View PostMark, on 12 November 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 12 November 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

View PostMark, on 12 November 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

Mark: I guess the Democratic party will have a better choice for us to vote for next time? :smirk:   I pray the Republican party will also have a better choice in mind for Presidents to elect of the future.

I've never in my life seen two worse choices for the Presidency in a U.S election...at least if there was, I wasn't alive yet to know about it. But again, people need to stop over-reacting and acting so outraged. There is little or nothing they can do about it, unless they choose to leave the country. I'm sure President Trump will have someone holding a gate open for them to leave. :D

Believe me, there are things to be done about it, and you will be seeing that over and over in greater intensity as long as the freedom of the press and speech aren't the first things to go. And as far as your laughing little face at the prospect of your President Trump having protesting citizens ushered out through an open gate, how much of a stretch is it till his thugs are holding open oven doors or gates to killing fields? Will you be there helping hold open those gates, Mark? With your snarky little smiley face?

Mark: Again, I think you are over-reacting. Donald Trump is many things, but a Hitler...I don't think so. And if he's insane, how has he become a successful multi-billionaire? If he's insane, why is he allowed to fly around in his own private jet, with his own private pilot. He's a tyrant, he's a megalomaniac, and he's often outrageous, but now that he's President, he'll have a host of people around him to keep him in-check. He can't just start ordering people to do things like Hitler did, without having to go through a plethora of other government officials to sanction it. It's not ALL run by one man, ya know. Just because he's President, he still must take an oath of office that limits some of the things an ordinary dictator could do. Also, if President Trump begins to show signs of true insanity, we do have a Vice President who is very qualified to take over and relieve President Trump of his duties. They just don't hand the Presidency to any old bum off the street, Yadda. Have a little faith in the rest of our government officials to keep things within acceptable tolerances.   And one last favor...stop making personal insults towards me, please?

Trump is a sociopath who probably suffers from BPD (borderline personality disorder). The latter is the opinion of a bunch of psychiatrist friends and acquaintances, some of whom I grew up with.

A good many CEO's are demonstrable sociopaths. Corporations are run like Feudal fiefs. Only a moron would consider such a person for public office.

There are endless examples of sociopaths in low-level government capacities. They act without conscience, are incapable of empathy, and paradoxically are like serial killers in that they tend to have fairly normals families and from the outside seem to lead normal lives.

But underneath it all they are manipulative and dangerous. And the thing that Trump is is only going to become more dangerous because of the gang of sociopathic enablers he's surrounding himself with. Only a fool can not see what's coming. Gingrich is a sociopath. Pence is a sociopath. Mitch McConnell is a sociopath. Giuliani is a sociopath and a nasty piece of work. Ben Carson is a sick sociopath who shouldn't be allowed with 1000 miles of a public office. Christie is a low-life opportunist and a crook.

Trump is putting together a cabal, not a cabinet.

Mark: Then WHY aren't there laws that require Presidential candidates to pass psychiatric evaluations before they can be President? Heck, why aren't there really any requirements regarding higher education, and strategic military training?
Why have so many other Presidents been womanizers ("sexual predators", as cade called them) who were cheating on their wives while in office? From FDR, JFK, to Bill Clinton, and probably a whole plethora of past Presidents I know nothing about. The truth is...we'll probably never know how many men who've held the office of President of the U.S. have been sexual criminals. The powerful get by with doing bad things, the office of the President used to hold enough power and prestige that incidents like Marylin Monroe and JFK constantly doin' the wild thang were kept hushed by the Secret Service, and J. Edgar Hoover himself...who was also a closet homosexual. Things regarding sex used to be hushed, and not talked about in polite high society.   Of course, we'll never know the full extent of Trump's sexual escapades, but I do know that when he became a candidate for President, his ALLEGED victims started coming forward like they were on The Price Is Right.

The guy has been elected by our own laws. Are all you who oppose Trump ready to start a revolution before the man even has a chance to do anything in office,...good or bad? He may turn out to the best President we've ever had. Nobody gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of beating Hillary in this election...yet here we are.
Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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#56 sierraleone

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    All things Great and Mischievous

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 07:48 PM

View PostMark, on 12 November 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Why have so many other Presidents been womanizers ("sexual predators", as cade called them) who were cheating on their wives while in office? From FDR, JFK, to Bill Clinton, and probably a whole plethora of past Presidents I know nothing about. The truth is...we'll probably never know how many men who've held the office of President of the U.S. have been sexual criminals. The powerful get by with doing bad things, the office of the President used to hold enough power and prestige that incidents like Marylin Monroe and JFK constantly doin' the wild thang were kept hushed by the Secret Service, and J. Edgar Hoover himself...who was also a closet homosexual. Things regarding sex used to be hushed, and not talked about in polite high society.   Of course, we'll never know the full extent of Trump's sexual escapades, but I do know that when he became a candidate for President, his ALLEGED victims started coming forward like they were on The Price Is Right.

*squints* I am not quite sure of what your point is. Please don't conflate sex, and assault that has a sexual component. I would like to think we have made positive strides on not confusing them, and how we treat them, culturally and legally. So I would expect and hope that our culture does not emulate all the ways that, in the past, consensual sex or sexual assault was viewed, judged, or handled.

Sexual assault victims rarely come forward. Even more so against a powerful, not to mention litigious, person like Trump. I assume you heard the Access Hollywood(?) tape with Trump and Billy Bush. How would you define those comments? What would you say they describe? I am not asking if you approve of the comments, I am asking you to define what he is describing.

There is a reason those allegations came out after that tape. It wasn't after he announced he was running, or even after becoming the Republican nominee. It was after the tape.

You know, it occurred to me a while back, how marital rape used to be an oxymoron legally (still is in other places). How the hell are people supposed to think they need to respect a woman's autonomy and agency over her own body, if a woman's husband needn't?

Quote

The guy has been elected by our own laws. Are all you who oppose Trump ready to start a revolution before the man even has a chance to do anything in office,...good or bad? He may turn out to the best President we've ever had. Nobody gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of beating Hillary in this election...yet here we are.

An unarmed revolution, or a robust opposition - loyal to the people, and to the nation's ideals and values.
Like I said before:
"Because it is much better to be prepared to face and fight what he said he would do, then react with no plan when he brings each item to the top of his agenda. Or Mike, if he succeeds Trump (Mike is horrible for women and LGBT, at the very least)."

Edited by sierraleone, 13 November 2016 - 10:53 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#57 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
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Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:03 PM

Funny how there are those here railing against protesters of the election and questioning whether CheetoPrez opposition is ready to start a revolution. Trump publicly called for just that, REVOLUTION, in the last 2012 presidential election after Romney lost because he mistakenly thought Romney had more popular votes than Obama, unfair!...he didn't, by 5 million. He may technically be President-elect, if the electors confirm him in December. But his ongoing hypocrisy and political shape-shifting is going to cost him the Ms. Congeniality award for sure, I'm afraid.



#58 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:08 PM

^ Isn't there a tweet from him around the same time saying we should get rid of the electoral college and go straight to the popular vote?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#59 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
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Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:21 PM

I think so. So many tweets, so little caring.

#60 KathyW2200

KathyW2200
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Posted 12 November 2016 - 11:31 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 November 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I just find it highly ironic that the Democrats, and the left in general, lost their minds when Trump wouldn't say he would accept the results of the election if he lost. And now it is the Democrats and the Left who have lost their minds, and aren't accepting the results of the election.

Clinton accepted the results of the election.  Obama accepted the results of the election.  Trump and some of his supporters made it very clear they had no intention of accepting the vote should it go to Clinton, and threatened to start lawsuits,  storm Washington, riot in the streets, etc., if he didn't win the "rigged" election.  So I find it especially hypocritical to hear them whine that Trump's opponents have to shut up and accept the results.  Why?  They weren't going to.  They're furious about violence in the streets, and we all should be--that's totally unacceptable.  But given that they threatened to do exactly the same thing (and weeks before the election even took place), once again we have a shining example of hypocrisy.

When I put the following question to the Trump supporters I know--"All of you condemning violence from anti-Trump protesters, would you say the same thing if the vote had gone the other way and it was Trump supporters behaving like that?"--their response, was "No, we would have a reason to riot in the streets if Clinton won."  So the people I"m talking to are just fine with violence as long as they're the ones perpetrating it.  Charming.   To the last.



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