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POTUS 2017 - ? [the post inauguration thread]


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#41 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:37 AM

View PostElara, on 23 January 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

LoTS, while you have every right to be annoyed with gsmonks (because what he said was wrong), but I do wish you had done so without dragging "Liberal" into it. While you say this is the problem, etc... you prove the other problem. You are calling someone a "Liberal" as the fall to attack. Well, he disagreed and said bad things about me, he is a dirty Liberal. Why isn't he a rude person all on his own?

I'm not a Liberal, but every time I disagree with some people, that is their first response (and with others, the first response is to call me a Conservative). As if that was the coup de gras. You could have posted that whole thing and done a better job by simply going after gsmonks for what he is, not for whatever group you think he belongs to.

You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal".
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#42 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:47 AM

View Postgsmonks, on 23 January 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:


He said, and I quote, "Liberal mainstream media," unquote. There is no "Liberal mainstream media". That is a lie. That is propaganda. That is Righty disinformation.

I disagree. MSNBC, NBC, CNN, are IMO most definitely Liberal leaning PR machines. Just as FOX news is most definitely Right, or Conservative leaning PR machine. Chris Matthews, Rachael Maddow, Chris Hayes, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson...all of those people aren't "Reporters" or "Journalists". ALL of them put their own personal spin on the stories they cover. The age of actual unbiased reporting is dead and buried.

Quote

I'll point it out again, for those that somehow missed it: BOTH sides of the freaking aisle are Liberal, by definition.

Perhaps strictly speaking, going strickly by dictionary definitions. But society doesn't go by that. For quite awhile now the term Liberal has been used to "label" or "describe" those on the left.

Quote

Using the term "Liberal mainstream media" is on a par with calling non-whites niggers. It's a derogatory term that has no meaning beyond being a derogatory term. Capiche?

I couldn't disagree more with this comment. The two are no where NEAR the same thing.

Quote

The thing about bigots and their terminology is that you can listen to them forever and never learn anything meaningful about the subject of their bigotry. Like bigots who don't know any people of colour personally, LoTS obviously doesn't know anyone working in the media industry.

People working in the media industry are trained, and train themselves, to not have a bias of any kind, because bias interferes with the news-gathering and reporting process. They are pretty damned impartial, and pride themselves on the fact.

I don't know what news programs you're watching, but ALL of them are biased. As I pointed out earlier in this post, the age of unbiased reporting, and reporters, is dead and buried.

Quote

The media over-all are not Left-leaning. It only appears to Righties to be that way because they're idiots, and when idiots aren't having their own idiot way, they lash out, and harangue those that point out their idiocy. So in their tiny, wee, pea-brains, the media become Left-leaning because the media aren't siding with themselves- the idiots and morons in society.

And again with name calling for those who don't agree with your position. If they don't agree with your position they are idiots???
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#43 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:50 AM

I also want to apologize for cursing in my original response to GSMonks. I really should've waited til I had calmed down before posting. GSMonks didn't curse at me, I shouldn't have cursed at him. Although I do stand by my comments in my response, minus the cursing.

And for anyone offended by the curses, I apologize.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#44 Omega

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:17 AM

^Whatever you had for breakfast this morning, can I get you more?

#45 Omega

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:21 AM

I think there's a lot that can be said about the impact of labels. Racist, liberal, fascist, socialist, feminist, nazi... they all get overused to the point of meaninglessness. And then how can we communicate? Part of the Trump/anti-PC phenomenon has been that people are tired of not being able to express ideas for fear of being labeled.

When labels are used to shut down discussion, the use of that label damages all of society. And I'm probably guilty too. We need to actually discuss ideas. If the idea is "race A is worse than race B", the correct solution isn't to shout "RACIST"! It's to say "evidence says otherwise, your position is therefore wrong." Discussions must be about evidence, not about labels, or we end up... where we are right now.

Edited by Omega, 23 January 2017 - 09:22 AM.


#46 gsmonks

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:57 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 January 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 23 January 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

He said, and I quote, "Liberal mainstream media," unquote. There is no "Liberal mainstream media". That is a lie. That is propaganda. That is Righty disinformation.

I disagree. MSNBC, NBC, CNN, are IMO most definitely Liberal leaning PR machines.

Bollocks. Provide examples instead of asking everyone to go on your say-so.

You've seen the definition of Liberal posted, by me, many times now. So I challenge you, right here and now- post examples of "Liberal media bias". No claims of such. No say-so. Provide actual examples, and explain how they entail as much.

Remember "Liberal" as defined in every dictionary:

Noun: Liberal:

1) A person who favours a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

2) A person who favours an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets

Adjective: Liberal:

1) showing or characterized by broad-mindedness

2) Having political or social views favouring reform and progress

3) Tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition

4) Given or giving freely (eg: "a liberal backer of the arts")

Now, you, or anyone else for that matter, who likes tossing the term "Liberal mainstream media" about: put your money where your mouth is. Post examples from the aforementioned outlets: MSNBC, NBC, CNN: and explain how those examples entail any kind of "Liberal mainstream bias".

And remember- you don't get to invent your own "facts" re the definition of Liberal. The definition is as I've posted it, straight from the dictionary.

Or if you want another dictionary, try this:

http://dictionary.ca...english/liberal
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#47 sierraleone

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 12:23 PM

Posting from my phone.

Global gag rule is back in place. Or likely is. I haven't gotten manysources on this yet, but considering this rule is deactivated every time their is a democrat in office and resctovated every time a republican is in office it would be no surprise.  And it is a gag rule, as there are already separate rules around providing the services, which are controlled by congress as I understand it.

My biggest beef with the rule is it says that it can't talk about it, even when, or especially when, it is relevant. Even if the people counselling women or couples is not actually providing the banned services. I assume even if asked.

That is bollocks. That is like the rule that schools can't acknowledge gay people exist.

So, the government isn't just preventing their dollars going towards services, the government is actively silencing people.

What is the old saying? Silence equals death? Or silence equals consent/violence (if used in response to injustice)? As for forced silence, I am pretty sure that is fascism.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#48 sierraleone

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:13 PM

Trumps deeds / executive actions today:

- Interfering in the doctor-patience relationship (not to mention the 1st Amendment), and increasing the likelihood of adverse health-outcomes for those patients. By re-enacting the Mexico City Policy.
- Pulls out of the TPP.
- Doing a hiring freeze in the federal department, except one federal department, the largest IIRC.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#49 sierraleone

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:34 PM

Regarding the argument that has happened in this thread, it is giving me a headache. Discuss ideas, not people. Not saying that there was no discussion of ideas.


Any word can be used, or perceived, as an insult. Who hasn't heard "men" or "women" used exasperatedly or even derisively? Tone and context can obviously make any word an insult.

And sometimes it doesn't even make sense. I had a co-worker say "bleeding heart liberals" derisively a couple months back. Are they trying to insult compassion, I don't get it! I asked my brother and he thinks it is code for "pussy", which I think it probably closer to the mark.

But certainly, sometimes people use relatively neutral terms, like liberal or conservative, derisively. And I think we need to resist that. That is why near always when I am referring to a group I use a modifier, like "some", or maybe "most".

gsmonks - conservative isn't so scary when one looks it up in the dictionary either.

LOTS - is "liberal mainstream media" supposed to be an insult, in how you mean it or use it? What is it suppose to mean?


I want to thank everyone that is, or has been, civil.


My point of view (no, I haven't look up facts, and don't have time, so this is based on my own narrow and faulty observation) is that the news media is not liberal. I expect many people in the media are socially liberal, and I think that comes through. But economically? Just like the democratic party they have been taken over by corporatists (or at least get their talking points from the corporatist up the food chain). And that is a big problem.

Edited by sierraleone, 23 January 2017 - 09:34 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#50 gsmonks

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 07:24 AM

Sierraleone, I am a Conservative, but a real cone, like Richard Painter or Ana Navarro.

If you listen to people like the aforementioned, they are pro separation-of-church-&-state, pro small government, anti big business-taking-everything-over. True Conservatives are, well, conservative. That means limiting the size of business, stopping the formation of cartels, keeping businesses small and local, that sort of thing. Unlike Chicken Little and his dad, and Trump, true Conservatives are about limiting the power and influence of government and big-business, not allowing fascist kooks to hijack the country.

Notice that no one responded to the challenge of posting examples of "Liberal media bias"? I can pretty much guarantee that there will be no response. You can't form a legitimate response to something that doesn't exist.

Edited by gsmonks, 24 January 2017 - 07:25 AM.

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#51 sierraleone

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:19 PM

Regarding labels:

Labels are just words attempting to describe something with our limited brains to try to make sense of the word. But when they are used as insults or slurs to demean as opposed to trying to objectively describe something you run into problems.

We should not use words/labels prejudicially to blind us to nuance & context that challenge our understanding of things.

We should also remember sometimes people accept/adopt labels with enthusiasm and zeal and hate it when people disrespect their identity, on both the left and the right. Religious labels being the most obvious ones on the right.


There is something rotten in the state of the Conservative party. And in the current state of conservatism. I totally agree. And we are seeing it. It is not traditionally conservative.

I am not trying to create false equivalency, but there is something rotten in the state of the Democratic party too.

Both parties got taken over by corporatists. The corporatists I think just find conservatives easier to manipulate. Money in politics is a huge problem, on both sides of the aisle.

I came across something on my internet travels in the last week, I don't know if I can find the link now. They were talking about the history of the corporatist take-over of the democrat party. Basically it was saying the first hole in the dam regarding the influence of the money in politics was due to a law (or court decision?) around 1976-1978. The corporatists had already taken over the Republican party readily, but soonish after that decision the Democrats join them, because of course they wanted that bribery money too.

When you look at that date… that was right around when Carter was in office. That was right around the time that the middle and lower classes stopped seeing income growth and income inequality started to grow.

Yes, Democrats have nibbled around the edges on progress, and do okay on the social front (more so on the state front in states they are strong), but rarely do they go against their corporatist masters. Neither of course do Republicans.


I think part of the problem is people often don't know what the identities and ideologies they adopt or assume actually are, or mean.

I think there are people who don't realize they are unintentionally or unconsciously facetious, because they have swallowed lies hook line and sinker, and just can be taken seriously anymore. They are serious, and if their world view is implemented there will be serious consequences, but their world view is not supported by facts and there world view is so untenable is it hard to take seriously (other than as a threat). If I were to use a metaphor I might think of these people as sheep in wolves' clothing, being led by wolves in a sheeps' clothing.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#52 sierraleone

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:49 PM

Trump's deeds today:

- Executive orders to move forward with DAPL, and to revive Keystone XL from death.
- Pushes automakers to keep jobs in the U.S. (the trends of automation and depressed wages are killing the middle class more IMO).
- Executive order directing that the permitting process and regulatory burden for manufacturers to be streamlined.
- Retaining James Comey as head of FBI

http://www.reuters.c...s-idUSKBN1582JP

Edited by sierraleone, 24 January 2017 - 06:50 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#53 gsmonks

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:58 PM

The problem, when it comes to labels, is that the Repellican Party is a label-generating propaganda/disinformation machine. They're at it incessantly.

It's a nasty habit they got into back in the 1930's during their strike-breaking, union-busting, scabbing days. They, aided and abetted by corporate swine, went on a disinformation/propaganda campaign that has continued, unrelenting, to this very day.

Take the term "Liberal media bias" for example. It's propaganda, not fact. All such terms (which have their roots in the Righty propaganda of the 1930's, are 100% meaningless. I'm not the first person to say, "Enough! No more such allegations! Show examples or shut up!"

That has always been the way to make the Righties put a sock in it. You can't back up what has zero basis in reality. It's exactly like the religion thing. "God exists!", they say. "Prove it!", is the appropriate response.

These terms, dating from the 30's, should be familiar to everyone: pinko, commie, liberal as a derogatory term, and every other term echoed by the Archie Bunker character in All In The Family. All the hate-concealing euphemisms and corrupt-minded sleight of hand- it all started back then.

See, unlike the alleged meaning of "Liberal media bias", these things can be named. You can put a finger on them. You can even pinpoint where they came from, who said them, who invented them.

The Democrats do have a propaganda machine, and they do engage in campaigns of misdirection and disinformation, but Righties are lying when they conflate it with the Righty variety, which is turned full-on, all the time, and has been so since the 30's.

When it comes to propaganda, the Democrats pretty much save it for elections. They'll paint their opponents in the worst possible light. They'll try to smear them with innuendo in some cases. And yes, they'll spread disinformation in order to discredit their opponent in the minds of voters. Politics is, after all, a dirty, filthy business.

But the Democrats do not have the continuous, ongoing propaganda machine of the Righties that keeps on grinding away at certain issues, like abortion, capital punishment, LGBTQ rights, and so on. It's a Hate machine, and it spins its poison 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

The thing about the Hate machine is that they do not have the right. They do not have the right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body. They do not have the right to marginalise and persecute members of the LGBTQ community. They do not have the right of Life or Death over the country's citizens. And they most certainly do not have the right to force their idiot religion and their beliefs on others.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#54 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:40 AM

View Postgsmonks, on 23 January 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 January 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 23 January 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

He said, and I quote, "Liberal mainstream media," unquote. There is no "Liberal mainstream media". That is a lie. That is propaganda. That is Righty disinformation.

I disagree. MSNBC, NBC, CNN, are IMO most definitely Liberal leaning PR machines.

Bollocks. Provide examples instead of asking everyone to go on your say-so.


Sorry about the delay in getting back to you, Real Life has been intruding again.

Here's a link to an article about Media bias: http://www.nytimes.c...-serious-effect

And then there was the CNN reporter who gave Hillary questions ahead of time, reporters actually submitting articles for approval by Hillary. But if you want something a little more recent. I just checked the MSNBC, NBC, sites and could find nothing about the woman who was kicked off a plane for berating a Trump supporter. You don't see that on Liberal news media.

http://www.foxnews.c...iral-video.html

Also havent seen anything on those liberal sites about this:

http://www.foxnews.c...eople-down.html

So now a candidate for DNC leadership wants to censor and "Shut up White People"??? I'm actually hoping she does get the job of running the DNC. It will guarantee more Democratic losses, as well as guarantee a second Trump term.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#55 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:41 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 23 January 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:


LOTS - is "liberal mainstream media" supposed to be an insult, in how you mean it or use it? What is it suppose to mean?


Not at all. I use that term to pretty much cover the majority of other news networks that aren't "conservative" like Fox is.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#56 Chakoteya

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:03 AM

So, is your POTUS (sounds so silly to my ears but yes I know what it stands for.....) going to solve two of his problems in one by shipping all the unemployed citizens down to the southern border to build his wall in the desert? That was the first thing I thought of when I heard that election promise, and he says he's signing an executive order (that's a Royal Decree for republicans) to get the Great Wall started.

And how do you think he'd react if his investigation into voter fraud shows that any fakery was in his favour?

Curious mischieveous foreigners want to know.

Edited by Chakoteya, 25 January 2017 - 09:04 AM.

Andromeda, Star Trek (all shows) and Doctor Who franchise episode transcripts.


Just because I didn't post a reply doesn't mean I wasn't tempted to.

#57 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:15 AM

View PostChakoteya, on 25 January 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

So, is your POTUS (sounds so silly to my ears but yes I know what it stands for.....) going to solve two of his problems in one by shipping all the unemployed citizens down to the southern border to build his wall in the desert? That was the first thing I thought of when I heard that election promise, and he says he's signing an executive order (that's a Royal Decree for republicans) to get the Great Wall started.

I seriously doubt if he'll do that. Building the wall is one thing, telling people what kind of job they will have is something else entirely.

Quote

And how do you think he'd react if his investigation into voter fraud shows that any fakery was in his favour?

Honestly, why Trump is letting his ego run wild on this issue is beyond me. He's actually the first person I've ever seen complain AFTER he won.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#58 Norville

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:54 AM

Oh, how interesting. It looks as if the Flint, Michigan water investigation has been shut down. (Sorry, was that already mentioned? I've lost track.) Well, of course, because Republicans care so much about people. Who cares about lead in drinking water? Safe, drinkable water is such an unimportant issue.
"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#59 yadda yadda

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:30 PM

View PostNorville, on 25 January 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Oh, how interesting. It looks as if the Flint, Michigan water investigation has been shut down. (Sorry, was that already mentioned? I've lost track.) Well, of course, because Republicans care so much about people. Who cares about lead in drinking water? Safe, drinkable water is such an unimportant issue.

Yeah, I'm surprised Trump didn't appoint that Republican governor responsible for poisoning Flint's water to head the EPA. Though the guy he did appoint (Pruitt?) is for sure bad enough.

#60 sierraleone

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:03 PM

Trump's deeds today:

- Executive Order (EO): calls for construction of large wall on southern border.
- EO: regarding immigration: it reinstates the Secure Communities Program which ICE uses to "target illegal immigrants for removal". The EO has other measures in it, including stripping federal grant funding from sanctuary cities. Don't know how what falls under the definition of federal grant money (vs other federal monies), and how that will get implemented and enforced.
- In interview released today Trump claims he has been told by the intelligence communities that torture works.

http://www.cbsnews.c...anuary-25-2017/
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


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