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The Courts Vs. Muslim ban

2017 Executive Orders Muslim ban District Judge Ann Donnelly Separation of Powers

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#21 sierraleone

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:03 PM

Senate confirmation vote for Jeff Session, Trump's pick for the U.S. Attorney General, is scheduled for tomorrow.

Acting U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates has said the Justice Department will not defend the new travel restrictions as she isn't convinced that they are lawful.

I bet Bannon and gang are chomping at the bit to get Jeff Sessions in there…. I assume if the vote is for tomorrow that floor discussion on Sessions is supposedly done.

http://www.reuters.c...SKBN15E1DE?il=0
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#22 sierraleone

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:26 PM

View PostCait, on 30 January 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

This is unacceptable.  This is not our country.

Did you hear about the five year old boy detained and kept from his mother for several hours? From my understand he (an American citizen) was overseas visiting family, one of those family members was escorting the child back, and when his mother (an Iranian) came to the airport to pick him up, found out that he was detained. I assume the family member that escorted the child was Iranian too? This was at the Dulles airport, so the one having the most difficulty.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#23 sierraleone

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:02 PM

AND the Acting Attorney General has been fired.

http://www.reuters.c...n-idUSKBN15E1DE

Quote

Yates said she did not believe defending the order would be "consistent with this institution's solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right."

Hours later, she was fired. The White House said Yates "has betrayed the Department of Justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States" and portrayed her actions as political.
...
"Ms. Yates is an Obama Administration appointee who is weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration," the White House said in a statement.

The White House said that Dana Boente, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, would be acting U.S. attorney general until Sessions is approved.

Boente said in an interview with the Washington Post that he would enforce the immigration order.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#24 Omega

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:00 PM

That statement was 100% Trump: poorly worded, lacking in any sense of prose, and factually inaccurate.

Trump bypassed the normal chain of succession in the DoJ to pick Boente. So much for the independence of the Justice Department.

Trump clearly plans to punish anyone who tries to hold him to his oath. He needs to be impeached, now, while anyone still can.

#25 Cait

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:08 PM

View PostOmega, on 30 January 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

  He needs to be impeached, now, while anyone still can.

I agree.  He's going to purge all the cabinet departments, and then replace them.  The only criteria for a job will be loyalty--to him--not the constitution or the people.  We have to act now while there are still civil servants willing to stand p to him.  This si why they are moving so fast.  Wipe out any inside resistence.  They do not care about our resistance--yet.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#26 sierraleone

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:14 PM

View PostOmega, on 30 January 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

Trump bypassed the normal chain of succession in the DoJ to pick Boente. So much for the independence of the Justice Department.

Thank you for that tidbit, I didn't know that.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#27 sierraleone

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:18 PM

View PostCait, on 30 January 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

This si why they are moving so fast.  Wipe out any inside resistence.  They do not care about our resistance--yet.

Trump has already complained about Democrats being obstructionist for political reasons… About dragging out/holding up the confirmation hearings/votes over his cabinet picks.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#28 yadda yadda

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:41 PM

View PostOmega, on 30 January 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

That statement was 100% Trump: poorly worded, lacking in any sense of prose, and factually inaccurate.

Trump bypassed the normal chain of succession in the DoJ to pick Boente. So much for the independence of the Justice Department.

Trump clearly plans to punish anyone who tries to hold him to his oath. He needs to be impeached, now, while anyone still can.

Yeah, it was "weak".

#29 Cait

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:43 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 30 January 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

View PostOmega, on 30 January 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

Trump bypassed the normal chain of succession in the DoJ to pick Boente. So much for the independence of the Justice Department.

Thank you for that tidbit, I didn't know that.

Neither did I.  I wonder if he was the only one that would accept the job.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#30 Cait

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:20 AM

Republicans in Congress are in for a big surprise.  Trump consulted Congressional Aides without the knowledge of the actual Congressmen and Senators.  Trump made them sign non-disclosure agreements.  Is anyone confused about where the loyalty of people who work for Trump lies?  It's not with the People of the United States, and it's not with the Constitution.  A NDA would literally mean that if they saw or heard anything inappropriate, and disclosed it, they would be sued by Trump.  If they protected the people, or the constitution, Trump would sue them. If they told a member of Congress, Trump would sue them.  Does this sound right?

Quote

The work of the committee aides began during the transition period after the election and before Donald Trump was sworn in. The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter. Trump's transition operation forced its staff to sign these agreements, but it would be unusual to extend that requirement to congressional employees. Kathryn Rexrode, the House Judiciary Committee’s communications director, declined to comment on the nondisclosure pacts.

http://www.politico....ss-order-234392

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#31 Niko

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:40 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 30 January 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:


https://twitter.com/...127124692090881

I think this is a depressingly spot-on explanation of some of that "shrugging off" (and is the explanation for some posts around here, imo).

The basic gist (in probably more characters than the linked tweets :p ) is that the nature of the identity politics going on with donnie's supporters means that many of them honestly don't care whether their boy's eo's are successful, and don't really care about the issues at all...  at the core, they're only, ONLY driven by wanting to "hurt" liberals, and they've deemed that the most effective way to do that (when so many liberals are part of some theoretical "elite") is by harming vulnerable groups that will stir up liberal outrage.   "Harm is not a lamentable cost of the policy. It is the purpose of the policy. And the angrier it makes you the happier it makes them."

It's pretty abhorrent from a morality viewpoint, but also really depressing.  How do you ever expect to find common ground when the only thing the other person truly wants is to see you hurt so much that they're willing to harm innocent bystanders to make that happen.  Like something out of a frickin' superhero movie.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#32 sierraleone

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:38 AM

^ A very interesting read, thank you for sharing. That doesn't apply to everyone who supports/ supported Trump, but someone who cheers about flowing liberal tears/outrage due to 3rd parties is being harmed... A clearer diagnostic criteria for the "deplorables" couldn't be made.

Edited by sierraleone, 31 January 2017 - 07:47 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#33 sierraleone

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:45 AM

Apparently when the (now former) Acting AG Sally Yates.... When she was having her confirmation hearing two years ago... Apparently someone asked her, if the views the President wants to execute are unlawful should the AG or deputy AG say no? Her answer was basically they have an obligation to follow the law/constitution and give independent legal advice to the President. (So yes, without saying the word yes).

Guess who the Senator was that asked that? Jeff Sessions, the current AG nominee that will probably be voted on today/tomorrow.

Edited by sierraleone, 31 January 2017 - 07:45 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#34 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 08:43 AM

View Postgsmonks, on 30 January 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

It is NOT a Muslim ban, no matter how the Left tries to spin it.

That's a lie and you know it. It's not a matter of spin. It's a matter of actuality. Muslims- banned.

really? Then how come India, one of the world's largest Muslim populations isn't on it? There are also a lot of other Muslim countries not on it. Like I said, it is NOT a Muslim ban, no matter how the Left and Trump haters try to spin it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#35 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 08:49 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 31 January 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Apparently when the (now former) Acting AG Sally Yates.... When she was having her confirmation hearing two years ago... Apparently someone asked her, if the views the President wants to execute are unlawful should the AG or deputy AG say no? Her answer was basically they have an obligation to follow the law/constitution and give independent legal advice to the President. (So yes, without saying the word yes).

Guess who the Senator was that asked that? Jeff Sessions, the current AG nominee that will probably be voted on today/tomorrow.

I'm just glad to see Government officials actually being held accountable for their actions. This acting AG apparently thought she could take on Trump, and their wouldn't be consequences. So far EVERYONE that has gone up against Trump has lost, and lost HUGE! (pun intended)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#36 Omega

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 10:23 AM

It doesn't have to ban ALL Muslims to be a ban targeted AT Muslims. You're not stupid, stop parroting and think.

The acting AG enforced the law, and Trump fired her for it. Why are you cheering for that?

#37 Cait

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 10:37 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 31 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

This acting AG apparently thought she could take on Trump, and their wouldn't be consequences. So far EVERYONE that has gone up against Trump has lost, and lost HUGE! (pun intended)

Do you ever look at a news item and think?  I mean that sincerely.  Do you ever use some logic?

She did it knowing she would be fired.  She knew!  She didn't go up against the President thinking she was David and he was Goliath.  She did it to make a point.  AND, the point is that no one is above the law.  We are a nation of laws, and Justice is the department that preserves the law.  She did her job.

Every Executive Branch appointee does indeed serve at the pleasure of the President, but they DO NOT serve the president.  They serve the people, and the constitution.

When they are sworn in, they do not pledge fidelity to the President.  They take an oath to preserve and defend the constitution.

She did her job, and your glee at her firing says you are too partisan to know the difference.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#38 yadda yadda

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:28 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

I just have to say...If any terrorist does wind up getting into the US because of these Protesters BS, then let's hope only those Protesters family and friends are the ones that get killed by the terrorist they let in.

Yes, let's hope protestors of what we happen to believe along with their families and friends, and pets, and Facebook acquaintances, and fellow churchgoers, and the Brownies and Boy/ Girl Scouts in their kid's troops, and the people standing in line at the store or DMV, or alongside them in an elevator, car, bus, train, or airplane also get killed. After all, It would only be right and fair.

#39 yadda yadda

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:36 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 31 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 31 January 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Apparently when the (now former) Acting AG Sally Yates.... When she was having her confirmation hearing two years ago... Apparently someone asked her, if the views the President wants to execute are unlawful should the AG or deputy AG say no? Her answer was basically they have an obligation to follow the law/constitution and give independent legal advice to the President. (So yes, without saying the word yes).

Guess who the Senator was that asked that? Jeff Sessions, the current AG nominee that will probably be voted on today/tomorrow.

I'm just glad to see Government officials actually being held accountable for their actions. This acting AG apparently thought she could take on Trump, and their wouldn't be consequences. So far EVERYONE that has gone up against Trump has lost, and lost HUGE! (pun intended)

You have repeated this falsehood after I already debunked it before for you. As I pointed out to you before, the plaintiffs in the Trump "University" fraud lawsuit did not lose. They got a HUGE $25 million award.

They could all build nice noise walls with that kinda dough.

Edited by yadda yadda, 31 January 2017 - 12:38 PM.


#40 Elara

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:35 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

I just have to say...If any terrorist does wind up getting into the US because of these Protesters BS, then let's hope only those Protesters family and friends are the ones that get killed by the terrorist they let in.

Well, they won't. After all, they stopped that American, 5 year old child from coming home. Who knows what he had on him or in him. Perhaps he might have had to go potty, which would mean stuff would be coming out of his whatever. And we all know what Trump thinks about stuff coming out of whatevers. Scary sh*t.

Let me ask you, LoTS. If that 5 year old child was yours, and he was detained by strangers for hours, which absolutely would have terrified that little kid, how would you feel about all of this? I'd bet that you wouldn't be LMAO-ing even slightly. And if it is not funny for you, then it is not funny for anyone, period.
I know what I would be feeling, and I know that they would be lucky if I didn't rip the hide off the first person I saw with my child. I also know that I would be taking it to the courts and it would start at the top, Trump. There would be no place he could hide, not when it comes to terrifying a child.

There is no explaining this away, there is no saying it is not Trump's fault, there is simply the proof that he did something without thinking it through and went too far.

View PostLord of the Sword, on 31 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

really? Then how come India, one of the world's largest Muslim populations isn't on it? There are also a lot of other Muslim countries not on it. Like I said, it is NOT a Muslim ban, no matter how the Left and Trump haters try to spin it.

Possibly because India is largely (almost 80%) Hindu. Not to mention, Trump has business dealings there.
Now, he has banned Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. Yet, there has been no fatal attack in the USA, carried out by a Muslim extremist from these countries in at least two decades. So why target them? Perhaps because Trump has no business dealings with any of those countries.

Yet the Sept. 11th attacks were carried out by terrorists from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon and the United Arab Emirates, which are not included in the ban. Countries which Trump does have business dealings.

Business dealings = no ban. Think about that.

Edited by Elara, 31 January 2017 - 01:51 PM.

El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS



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