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The Courts Vs. Muslim ban

2017 Executive Orders Muslim ban District Judge Ann Donnelly Separation of Powers

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#41 yadda yadda

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:39 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 31 January 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 30 January 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

I just have to say...If any terrorist does wind up getting into the US because of these Protesters BS, then let's hope only those Protesters family and friends are the ones that get killed by the terrorist they let in.

Yes, let's hope protestors of what we happen to believe along with their families and friends, and pets, and Facebook acquaintances, and fellow churchgoers, and the Brownies and Boy/ Girl Scouts in their kid's troops, and the people standing in line at the store or DMV, or alongside them in an elevator, car, bus, train, or airplane also get killed. After all, It would only be right and fair.

And also, since it's fair and ok to root for the deaths of those who protest against what we believe in if it tangentially involves a public danger...for all those who loudly protested Obamacare and demanded its repeal let's  hope that all the horrible cancers, heart disease, diabetes, and other afflictions no longer covered for our fellow citizens will only befall the ones who voted for Trumplethinskin to repeal the ACA, and of course their family and friends too since that just makes sense.

#42 gsmonks

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:47 PM

I'm just loving this cartoon right now.

Few realise how dangerous Bannon is.

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#43 Nonny

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:48 PM

*
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trump and his supporters are all insane monsters.  FRIEND OD MINE FROM THE VETERANS WRTITING RETREAT who happens to be a great comedian, has been harassed, called a camel,jockey told to go home andand such. Unlike that coward Trump, Armen was a soldier and he was a ranger. and the jwrks harrasssing him being stupid have no clue thT Armenians were ChristiAns first well before their evangelical preachers began their lies, nor will they ever learn because they are stupid and love their false witness.
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#44 Elara

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 02:13 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 31 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

I'm just glad to see Government officials actually being held accountable for their actions. This acting AG apparently thought she could take on Trump, and their wouldn't be consequences. So far EVERYONE that has gone up against Trump has lost, and lost HUGE! (pun intended)

Okay, I have to ask: What is the pun?
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#45 sierraleone

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:12 PM

You know, I thought it was incompetence before, but I think they want this chaos. Besides distracting from other things, it really allows them to separate the boot lickers from those with principles. Which will allow them to clean house all that much quicker.

Roughly 900 State Department officials signed an internal dissent memo critical of the travel ban:

Quote

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said on Monday he was aware of the memo but warned career diplomats that they should either "get with the program or they can go."

Also in todays news, some of the seven countries affected by the travel ban will not be taken off the list anytime soon, and some may be barred indefinitely Homeland Security Secretary says.

Here is a Reuters article with an update on legal challenges to the travel ban. Mentioned in another article is tech companies filed an amicus brief(?) with some of these challenges.


You know how Trump claimed that Obama and Clinton founded ISIS? Well Trump's administration will have a hand in forming the next generation of terrorists. And not all of the even Muslim….
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 sierraleone

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:23 PM

That still very strong divide in America I mentioned, using an article showing quotes from regularly people in middle America… Well, the divid has been quantified in a poll:

Quote

The Jan. 30-31 poll found that 49 percent of American adults said they either "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with Trump's order, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed and another 10 percent said they don't know.

But the responses were split almost entirely along party lines. Some 53 percent of Democrats said they "strongly disagree" with Trump's action while 51 percent of Republicans said they "strongly agree."

The link has further questions and numbers.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#47 gsmonks

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:54 PM

Keeping in mind that I'm a Conservative:

You'd have to be lobotomised to be a Republican these days. Siding with Stoopid and siding with lies has turned the GOP into a cesspool of excrement and filth.
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#48 243Skunk

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:53 PM

You guys must really hate Jimmy Carter.

#49 gsmonks

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 09:34 PM

View Post243Skunk, on 31 January 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

You guys must really hate Jimmy Carter.

Carter signed an arms deal, back in the 70's, with Indonesia's Suharto, who at the time was committing genocide in East Timor.

A friend of mine and a cousin managed to escape the carnage, but many friends and acquaintances of theirs were not so lucky. Foreign-aid workers, priests, nuns, journalists, teachers, doctors, medics, nurses, were slaughtered.

That's what I think of Jimmy Carter.
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#50 sierraleone

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 07:54 AM

New update/article:

U.S. judge orders Trump administration to allow entry to immigrant visa holders

This isn't just for people being held, but for people who have been, or could be, refused entry to the U.S., such as people turned away from boarding a plane.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#51 gsmonks

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 03:09 PM

So now that it's been established that the Trump cabinet is run by inept losers who don't know what they're doing . . .
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#52 yadda yadda

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 03:27 PM

...that's what happens when you have an ignorant buffoon pick the "smartest and best" people he knows.

#53 gsmonks

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:08 PM

It's something you often see with spoiled rich kids. No grasp of Logic whatsoever. Living in their own world. Too stoopid for words. Very much like bigots, but for different reasons.
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#54 sierraleone

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:46 AM

Read a couple more horrifying stories about families being separated or harmed by this ban.

A women (Sudanese, legal permanent resident) was separated from her breastfeeding baby (U.S. citizen) for hours at the Dallas-Fort Worth airport.
An Iran(?) couple with a baby and travel visas. The infant needs high-risk open heart surgury. They were stopped before boarding their plane.

One site I was reading ask, is this the party of family values?


One thing I remember thinking mid-week was that airports/airlines are caught in the middle, and I was wondering whether they'd listen to a court ruling if the government was telling them to continue with their old orders. Because they face large fines and other consequences if they don't follow government policies and procedures. Of course there could be a time lag during the period of time the government is reviewing a court ruling and drafting their new orders. It looks like even as the government is revising their orders though that some airlines are still nervous/uncertain (not surprising).

Some airlines board barred passengers after blow to Trump travel ban

Quote

Citizens of seven mainly Muslim countries banned from the United States by President Donald Trump can resume boarding U.S.-bound flights, several major airlines said on Saturday, after a Seattle judge blocked the executive order.

Qatar Airways was the first to say it would allow passengers from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen to fly to U.S. cities if they had valid documents.

Air France, Spain's Iberia and Germany's Lufthansa all followed suit after the federal judge's ruling, which the White House said it planned to appeal as soon as possible.
...
U.S. Customs and Border Protection told airlines they could board travelers affected within hours of Friday's ruling, but budget airline Norwegian, which operates transatlantic flights including from London and Oslo, said many uncertainties remained about the legal position.

"It's still very unclear," spokeswoman Charlotte Holmbergh Jacobsson said. "We advise passengers to contact the U.S. embassy. We have to follow the U.S. rules."
...
The State Department said on Friday that almost 60,000 visas were suspended following Trump's order. It was not clear whether that suspension was automatically revoked or what reception travelers with such visas might get at U.S. airports.

The Washington state lawsuit was the first to test the broad constitutionality of Trump's executive order. Judge James Robart, a George W. Bush appointee, explicitly made his ruling apply across the country, while other judges in similar cases have so far issued orders concerning only specific individuals.
...
Robart said no attacks had been carried out on U.S. soil by individuals from the seven countries affected by the travel ban since that assault. For Trump’s order to be constitutional, Robart said, it had to be “based in fact, as opposed to fiction.”

The White House said in a statement: “At the earliest possible time, the Department of Justice intends to file an emergency stay of this outrageous order and defend the executive order of the president, which we believe is lawful and appropriate."
...
But the fluid legal situation was illustrated by the fact that Robart's ruling came just hours after a federal judge in Boston declined to extend a temporary restraining order allowing some immigrants into the United States from countries affected by Trump's three-month ban.

Edited by sierraleone, 04 February 2017 - 08:47 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#55 Chakoteya

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:46 AM

How can someone who has sworn to uphold the Constitution be so uninformed as to the consequences of his actions in the light of the 14th Amendment? (as well as the 1st and 4th, I think it is.) By saying effectively - don't worry, we'll let Christian refugees in, just not Muslims, he has tried to drive a HumVee straight through it by favouring one religion over another.

Tut, tut, Mr President. I think you might need better advisers.
Or not, because the Supreme Court will most likely back you as usual even before you make your appointment to it.
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Just because I didn't post a reply doesn't mean I wasn't tempted to.

#56 sierraleone

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:07 AM

Are previous executive orders legally binding on the executive branch *if* the president hasn't rescinded an executive order? Assuming constitutional of course.

Apparently there is an executive order signed by President Kennedy, which George W Bush modified *very* slightly, and Obama modified to correct George's grammar on… I am not kidding. So this executive order is held very dear by recent Presidents. And apparently is an Executive Order on how Executive Orders are to be developed. Basically it says proposed Executive Orders are to be reviewed/etc by various departments first, before being finalized. One of the people who are suppose to review it is the Attorney General/Justice Department.

https://theintercept...ecutive-orders/

Just wondering if this, with all the other issues surrounding it, could come up in the legal battle. Even if Executive Orders are NOT binding (even before official rescinding of them), it just shows their incompetence and ignorance, and/or their disrespect for precedent.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#57 yadda yadda

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:37 PM

So now the wannabe Dictator-In-Chief has tweeted that the judge who issued the order halting his Muslim ban is a "so-called judge", whose "ridiculous" opinion is undermining enforcement of law and order and will be "overturned!"

This POS has no idea how our constitutional government actually works. The "so-called judge" is a George Bush appointee, Senate confirmed, and constitutionally affirmed to do his job as a part of the judicial branch of our government. Obviously Cheeto Hitler doesn't respect the office of any member of the federal judiciary, not just the "Mexican" ones. So now is the federal judiciary to be bumped up a notch on his enemy list to join the dishonest media?

This a$$hole needs to be impeached.

Edited by yadda yadda, 04 February 2017 - 01:21 PM.


#58 sierraleone

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:41 AM

'So-called judge' derided by Trump known for his fairness, work with youth

He seems like a really awesome guy, but I am sure that has to make him biased I guess, despite being appointed by George W Bush.

Quote

"He is relatively apolitical," said Douglas Adkins, a private equity investor and former investment banker who has known Robart since childhood. "He's not a conservative or a liberal. He's a man interested in the law and fairness."
...
"The work of the Judiciary, and this court, is limited to ensuring that the actions taken by the other two branches comport with our country's laws, and more importantly, our constitution," Robart wrote.
...
Adkins said Robart and his wife have no children but have been foster parents to several immigrant children over the years, primarily from Southeast Asia. Robart could not be reached for comment.

The judge served in the past as the president of the Seattle Children's Home and was a former trustee of the Children's Home Society of Washington, according to his official biography on the federal court website. Those organizations provide mental health services for at-risk youth and help troubled families.

"His involvement with children may have helped contribute to his understanding of the people impacted by this ruling but would not have shaped his interpretation of the rule of law," said Paul Lawrence, who was one of the attorneys who filed an amicus brief backing Washington State in the immigration case.
...
In 2011, Robart put a temporary hold on a state rule change that would have cut government funding for disabled children and families in Washington.

"When faced with a conflict between the financial and budgetary concerns ... and the preventable human suffering," Robart wrote in that opinion, "the balance of hardships tips in the favor of preventing human suffering."

Hey, well it is never going to happen under Bush, can Democrats nominate this guy to the Supreme Court the next chance they get?
(Actually, sadly no, he is 69 :(, but someone like him!)
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#59 sierraleone

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:49 AM

Justice Department appeals judge's immigration order

Quote

The government moved to reverse a federal judge's Friday order that lifted the travel ban and warned the decision posed an immediate harm to the public, thwarted enforcement of an executive order and "second-guesses the president’s national security judgment about the quantum of risk posed by the admission of certain classes of (non-citizens) and the best means of minimizing that risk."

The appeal now goes to a three-judge panel which can act at anytime to uphold the order or suspend it pending a full appeal. A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment beyond the filing.

A ruling could come at any time.

Appeals court refuses to immediately restore Trump travel ban

Quote

A U.S. appeals court late on Saturday denied a request from the U.S. Department of Justice to immediately restore a immigration order from President Donald Trump barring citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries and temporarily banning refugees.

The judge's order and the appeal ruling have created what may be a short-lived opportunity for travelers from the seven affected countries to get into the United States while the legal uncertainty continues.

In a brief order, the appeals court said the government's request for an immediate administrative stay on the Washington judge's decision had been denied. It was awaiting further submissions from Washington and Minnesota states on Sunday, and from the government on Monday.
​…
The Justice Department appeal criticized Robart's legal reasoning, saying it violated the separation of powers and stepped on the president's authority as commander-in-chief.

The appeal said the state of Washington lacked standing to challenge the order and denied that the order "favors Christians at the expense of Muslims."The U.S. State Department and Department of Homeland Security said they were complying with Robart's order and many visitors are expected to start arriving on Sunday, while the government said it expects to begin admitting refugees again on Monday.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#60 gsmonks

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:06 PM

There is more power in the hands of the Supreme Court justices than there is in the Presidency. The actual power of a President is limited.

In other words . . .

Trump just got his ASS handed to him! LMFAO! LOL! LOL! ROFL! Ha-Ha!

But I digress . . .
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.



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