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Health care, repeal/replacement Republican legislation


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#1 yadda yadda

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:02 AM

I thought it might be a good idea to have a clearinghouse thread for discussion of the upcoming debates and votes to be held in Congress now that the Republicans have finally unearthed a replacement plan or two for the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare). TrumpCare, RyanCare, whatever you want to call it. What does the future hold for our citizen's health care options or lack of, and what will be the political effects of this issue felt into the 2018 midterm elections and beyond?

#2 yadda yadda

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:10 PM

Listening to Speaker Ryan right now, pimping his wonderful new American Health Care Act. It's quite an act, actually. Sugarcoating to idiots that you're trying to pull the rug out from under their health care, putting up his pie charts to show these 40-64 year old Republican voters and other Americans who don't matter that while they won't be able to have their piece of health care pie anymore, nor be able to even lick the pie tin, old smooth talkin' Eddie Munster hair Mr. Speaker will have paved the path to self reliance for them without having to lean on OPM (other people's money). And as Rep Jason Chaffetz says, everyone can afford health care as long as they give up their iPhone. Is that too much to ask?

And Mr. Speaker says his "patient choice" plan will give folks free access to the health care and Doctor of their "choice". Just like you and I have free access to the yacht of our choice, or the private Lear jet of our choice. FREEDOM of choice! It's to die for...

Edited by yadda yadda, 09 March 2017 - 12:15 PM.


#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:02 AM

I get that the GOP has a very limited window to get this done, but they are moving at breakneck speed here. And listening to Ryan (who I have to agree with Yadda, does remind me of Eddie Munster with his hair style)...I'm getting a deja vu feeling of the "We have to pass the bill before you see what's in it." vide.

Also hearing reports of President Trump telling Republicans that if they can't get their version passed then to just let Obamacare fail on it's own (Which it WILL do), and then blame Democrats for it.

I've been asked, before on this board, what it would take for me to break with Trump? I'm thinking on that particular course of action I have to break ranks with Trump. While just letting Obamacare fail does have a certain appeal, sort of a "I told you so" to all those who rammed Obamacare through...this is people's lives we're talking about. And while I've been known for taking the approach of: "My way or the Highway." people's lives weren't on the line. By no means do I think we should just keep funding Obamacare. It definitely needs to be repealed and replaced, but by a plan that actually works.

One approach might be to leave Obamacare as is, Don't touch it so that Democrats squarely own that. But at the same time provide an alternative Health Care plan that does work. Let that plan compete with the Obamacare. This way, all those screaming about not touching Obamacare can still keep it, with it's ever increasing premiums and deductibles. Those who want a different plan can then go with TrumpCare.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#4 Elara

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:05 PM

LotS, if you actually read the entire journey the ACA took, you would realize that Obama was handed a clusterf**k, but it was the best he was going to get since the morons in control were never going to work together. They were never going to come up with something that was for the good of the people, and if you believe that 45 will come up with something great, you are kidding yourself. I would say that 45 will be in the same position that Obama was in, sign something and hope for the best.

As far as leave the ACA alone? Considering how much worse the Republican controlled house and senate could make healthcare? Yes, please, leave it alone. It's not great, but it's not: "Take away women's right to birth control", horrible. Obviously, there are others. For instance: "Take away women's right to safe abortion", horrible. "Take away right to coverage of preexisting conditions", horrible. etc...
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#5 yadda yadda

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

View PostElara, on 10 March 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

LotS, if you actually read the entire journey the ACA took, you would realize that Obama was handed a clusterf**k, but it was the best he was going to get since the morons in control were never going to work together. They were never going to come up with something that was for the good of the people, and if you believe that 45 will come up with something great, you are kidding yourself. I would say that 45 will be in the same position that Obama was in, sign something and hope for the best.

As far as leave the ACA alone? Considering how much worse the Republican controlled house and senate could make healthcare? Yes, please, leave it alone. It's not great, but it's not: "Take away women's right to birth control", horrible. Obviously, there are others. For instance: "Take away women's right to safe abortion", horrible. "Take away right to coverage of preexisting conditions", horrible. etc...

Nice description, Elara. It was a clusterf**k and a weakened, watered down compromise...crafted and heavily influenced by health care insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies, as is the model for comprehensive government plans intersecting with business interests. But before someone points out that the morons in control handing off the C-F to Obama were Democrat morons, let it be known that it took every ounce of cajoling, even political bribery to get the ACA approved because politicians as a class are greedy, self-absorbed aholes. This crop of Republican servants of the people in Congress are just as if not more fractured, greedy, and worried about their own precious a$$es getting reelected. They may be the current bunch of morons in charge but that doesn't mean anything is going to get done.

And we can all just sit back and enjoy the show as these fools who unexpectedly got the brass ring they craved find it's not so easy to fool their people with craven lies and platitudes when the rubber hits the road and they're driving poor, older GOP voters off of health care completely or making it so prohibitively expensive it might just be easier to get sick and die. Hopefully enough of them will still be alive in 2018 to register their disapproval of the "patient centered" Republican health care scam.

Edited by yadda yadda, 10 March 2017 - 04:00 PM.


#6 sierraleone

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:32 PM

Did you hear about a recently proposed side-heathcare bill regarding employer wellness problems?

https://www.washingt...m=.1a07c1861ee4

Quote

Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.

In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.
...
...if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act and the 2008 Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA).
...
...the House legislation would allow employers to impose penalties of up to 30 percent of the total cost of the employee's health insurance on those who choose to keep such information private.

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Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 Elara

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:15 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 12 March 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Did you hear about a recently proposed side-heathcare bill regarding employer wellness problems?

https://www.washingt...m=.1a07c1861ee4

huh. So a marker for a disease crops up, it's a preexisting condition, and they don't have to cover it when it finally manifests. Seems like something that most of the Republicans will love, so I'm guessing it will be approved.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#8 sierraleone

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

View PostElara, on 12 March 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

huh. So a marker for a disease crops up, it's a preexisting condition, and they don't have to cover it when it finally manifests. Seems like something that most of the Republicans will love, so I'm guessing it will be approved.

Or the insurance company ups your premiums. Or, your employer sees an increased health risk down the road, affecting either premiums and/or work productivity (whether slower work, or taking time off for medical issues), and they start nitpicking at your work so they can document a valid reason to fire you.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 March 2017 - 02:22 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#9 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

CBO says....American Health not Care Act, 14 million not insured by next year. 21 million by 2020. 24 more million by 2026.  America not so great again...

Edited by yadda yadda, 13 March 2017 - 07:44 PM.


#10 Themis

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:57 PM

But - health care is complicated!

I'll be dust by then but this country WILL eventually go for single payer/Medicare for all/whatever they want to call it.  Yes, it will be on a bigger scale than any other country but it's the only thing that's fair to everyone.  Meanwhile I'll have to hope I'm dust before they screw with current Medicare.
Cats will never be extinct!

#11 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:46 PM

We'll both be dust before they'll get into single-payer, unless Bernie or Warren win the presidency and a slew of Dems take over the House and Senate after this GOP debacle-in-the-making. But it will happen eventually because as we turn to dust so will a generation of old GOP Fox brainwashees, and a new generation of more diverse, more tolerant Americans begin to grow and take over. It's inevitable, no matter how the white supremacists squirm, spray paint swastikas, and topple headstones out of hatred and frustration. So maybe my daughter and grand kids will enjoy single-payer, Medicare for all. If our so- called president doesn't get us all vaporized first



#12 Mark

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:14 AM

Mark: I suggest the Republicans slow themselves down a bit, and just rewrite the bad portions of the Affordable Health Care Act that everyone agrees does not work. Big egoes be damned.
Mark
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#13 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:08 PM

View PostMark, on 14 March 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

Mark: I suggest the Republicans slow themselves down a bit, and just rewrite the bad portions of the Affordable Health Care Act that everyone agrees does not work. Big egoes be damned.

They could try and do just that, and if by some chance their American Health Care Act (nothing affordable about it) should make it through the House it's doubtful it would ever pass the Senate without wholesale changes. Problem is, besides every Democrat opposing it on principle, there are moderate GOP Senators who are horrified at how austere and cost cutting to the point of throwing their needy, older, less affluent, and VOTING constituents off of health care coverage entirely. Any steps taken to ameliorate this carnage will cost money, require revenue which was the reason for existence of the individual mandate.

Even if funds were found in a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow to finance the Act without the individual mandate, there will probably be enough extremely conservative Senators opposed to the idea of spending ANYTHING on public health care to derail passage of any ObamaCare-Lite style compromise. These dedicated folks are the embodiment of the mythical "death panels". To them it's sink or swim, stay healthy or die for older or poor people unable to afford health insurance. This is the dichotomy faced by the GOP, their binary choice. Succeed in passing this crap repeal/replace legislation and be despised by their own betrayed constituency, or dither at it and fail...going back on their promise and failing in their Holy Grail quest to strip public health care. Either way they piss off their and 45's gullible voters and risk endangering House and Senate control in 2018.

#14 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:09 AM

View Postyadda yadda, on 13 March 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

and a new generation of more diverse, more tolerant Americans begin to grow and take over. It's inevitable,

Yeah, the riots at Berkley show just how "Tolerant" the Left is.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#15 Elara

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:46 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 16 March 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 13 March 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

and a new generation of more diverse, more tolerant Americans begin to grow and take over. It's inevitable,

Yeah, the riots at Berkley show just how "Tolerant" the Left is.

We've gone over this. Any extremist is bad, doesn't matter is they are extreme right, left, up, down, whatever. Thing is, you do not know if they were left or right. You do not know. What is known, is that the peaceful protestors were just that, peaceful. That doesn't mean that they aren't tolerant, it means they are voicing their concerns in a peaceful, lawful manner.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#16 Jorgasnarova

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:28 PM

Article on the types of medical coverage members of Congress enjoy:

http://www.snopes.co...ss-health-care/

Obviously, this might have influenced their reasoning when "AHCA" was drafted.

#17 yadda yadda

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:52 AM

Well, today is the day for a House floor vote on the so- called "repeal and displace" Republican health care legislation aimed at defunding and crippling care for seniors and the economically disadvantaged. Unless Speaker Ryan loses his nerve and pulls the bill in the face of a potential loss due to lack of GOP member support. Win, lose, or withdraw in the House vote it appears to be a big win for Democrats politically since this late term abortion of a health care act will burden 45 and the GOP with its political consequences... no matter which way the dice roll.

Just another snowball in the building avalanche of failure for 45 due to ignorance, incompetence, and complete blindness to political reality...or any reality for that matter. Sad.

Edited by yadda yadda, 23 March 2017 - 02:53 AM.


#18 yadda yadda

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:54 AM

So House Republicans couldn't gather enough Republican support to pass their American Health Care Act on schedule, yesterday March 23rd, and will pose a take it or leave it vote this morning at 45's behest (unless 45 quails under the pressure and they decide to pull it again, of course). The so-called president supposedly wants it over and done with one way or the other so he can launch his Twitter blamestream assault on Ryan and GOP recalcitrants in the wake of his potential failure. What is truly ironic and telling is that the hasty rush job of trying to get this legislation to a vote yesterday was pushed along so that the GOP could give a big collective middle finger to President Obama (and America's sick and poor) by repealing the ACA on the 7th anniversary of its implementation. Oh well, the best laid plans of rats and men...

I'm almost hoping the House Republicans pass this legislative atrocity and every one who votes for it will be bathed in the stink of failure and cloak of stark indifference to constituent needs when the Senate would kill the bill in its next stage of evolution. Gee, I wonder if those 45 supporters are tired yet of all the winning, winning, winning their candidate promised them? So much winning.

#19 yadda yadda

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 04:02 PM

Repeal / replace has been rejected and ejected. Whoever would have guessed health care could be so complicated?  Now we are stuck with and must wait for ObamaCare to both explode and implode simultaneously, per our Fearless Leader's own words. SAD....yet nonetheless I rejoice.  ;)

Edited by yadda yadda, 24 March 2017 - 04:34 PM.


#20 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 04:55 PM

I'm also rejoicing. Obamacare is squarely OWNED by Democrats, so when it does implode, when premiums increase past the 200 or 300% increase mark, when the last health care provider leaves the plan, and people find they have NO coverage...the Democrats, and those Republicans in the Freedom Cacus, are going to have to answer for that.

For those looking for someone to beat Trump...Congrats, you managed to beat him on the healthcare bill...Now you own that. And when Obamacare does implode, you'll own that also.

I'm really glad President Trump is washing his hands, until Obamacare dies. These career politicians were probably expecting the President to try again, essentially begging them. F that sh*t. They had their chance to repeal and replace, they choked on it, now they own it.

On to taxes and building the wall.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.


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