Lord of the Sword, on 24 March 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:
I'm also rejoicing. Obamacare is squarely OWNED by Democrats, so when it does implode, when premiums increase past the 200 or 300% increase mark, when the last health care provider leaves the plan, and people find they have NO coverage...the Democrats, and those Republicans in the Freedom Cacus, are going to have to answer for that.
For those looking for someone to beat Trump...Congrats, you managed to beat him on the healthcare bill...Now you own that. And when Obamacare does implode, you'll own that also.
I'm really glad President Trump is washing his hands, until Obamacare dies. These career politicians were probably expecting the President to try again, essentially begging them. F that sh*t. They had their chance to repeal and replace, they choked on it, now they own it.
On to taxes and building the wall.
Doesn't that mean the Democrats also own the lives saved under the ACA/Obamacare? Obamacare has been around 7 years, and people who did not have access to affordable comprehensive health care (or at least much less so than now) now do, which has saved the lives (and health) of many.
So, to say that once Obamacare fails, this is the Democrats fault that people start dying (going back to how it was before the ACA/Obamacare), then isn't it also to be credited to them that the lives (and health) of so many have been saved?
Either one have to make up some twisted logic that that doesn't matter, because those people saved by ACA/Obamacare either: a)
should not have been saved/cured, b)
should not have been saved/cured by any government health care, c)
should not have been saved/cured by imperfect government health care (note, all health care is imperfect, private or public), d)
should have been saved/cured by profit-driven free-market health care (which we know wouldn't have happened, those that could be saved by that system already were, but it left many people with preventable health conditions to deteriorate and/or die), e)
should have been saved/cured by profit-driven health care market fixed/patched/tinkered somehow by government regulation/interference (isn't that what the ACA/Obamacare is?).
So, now that we have this system in place, *if* it is going to implode on its own…. What does: a)
destroying it (i.e. repeal without replace), b)
worsening it (i.e. repeal and replace with the recently pulled Trump/Ryan-don't-care bill), c)
abandoning/neglecting it as if an infant in the woods left to die (i.e. the current plan to let it implode on its own)….. What does any of these options do? And who owns it? I mean, if ACA/Obamacare took 50 years to implode, would it still be the democrat's fault?
So, until 2010, the U.S. largely had profit-driven health care. Due to various movements and compassion in the past there was a very basic social safety net for the very very poor or those without access to employer-health-care-plans (medicaid for the very poor, medicare for those over 65, emergency rooms could not turn people away). But this left a whole swath of people who couldn't access affordable comprehensive health care. That state of affairs put some people into debt to get healthcare, leading many people to bankruptcy, just to live. Many others who couldn't access credit couldn't even do that, and just succumbed to preventable health issues.
I'd say democrats and republicans were responsible for that state of affairs. Though democrats did try to do healthcare reform once before, in 1993. But considering at the time the Democrats were not united in passing it (and I do not know that plan's pros/cons), yes, both parties own the state of affairs.
In the lead up to the 2010 ACA/Obamacare vote both Democrats and Republicans contributed to the legislation. But the Republicans voted no on the legislation. So Democrats get a lot more credit for the lives (and healths) saved from 2010 to present day, by the ACA/Obamacare.
If it needs improvement/changes to ensure it doesn't implode and kill people, it is incumbent on the parties in power in the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, to do so, to ensure lives continue to be saved and the U.S. does not revert to how things were before 2010. Oh, I meant party, as there is only one holding the House/Senate/Presidency at the moment.
If ACA/Obamacare is better than what the U.S. had before, and is saving lives, but needs saving/fixing itself, why wouldn't it be the Republicans fault if they didn't do something to save/fix it when they are in the position to do so? OR, at the very least, why do the Democrats not get credit for saving the lives saved because the ACA/Obamacare is saving more lives than under the previous system?
Edited by sierraleone, 26 March 2017 - 08:24 PM.