Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Health care, repeal/replacement Republican legislation


  • Please log in to reply
131 replies to this topic

#41 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 4,829 posts

Posted 27 March 2017 - 01:19 PM

Only a genius like Escher could wrap his head around such convoluted stupidity.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#42 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:04 PM

I figured this thread deserved a bump with the new round of trying to pass some repeal/replace healthcare bill.

The new tentative bill allows states to exempt health insurance companies in their state from having to provide the same-cost insurance to healthy customers and customers with pre-existing conditions. Which means of course the insurance premiums will sky-rocket for people with pre-existing conditions.

I don't know if it is cluelessness and/or a me-and-mine attitude, but they have a provision that exempted congress members and their staff (and presumably their covered family members) from any state-led exemption from Obamacare/ACA. Meaning, if the congress member and his/her staff lived in a state that decided to roll-back the protection of those with pre-existing conditions, that the insurance companies must still extend those protections to the congress member and his/her staff. Really.

http://thehill.com/p...ers-of-congress
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#43 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,447 posts

Posted 04 May 2017 - 03:52 PM

I went to my once a week Thursday breakfast get together with 3 old friends, even older than me, all of them rock-ribbed Republican 45 supporters who lorded it above me upon his unexpected victory. Their mood seemed glum, so I asked if they had all honored their President's dictate to say a prayer on today's National Prayer Day. I knew none of them are at all religious, so it was a joke. But one said that we're all going to need prayers if they pass the House GOP Health Care bill, which of course did happen a half hour later as we ate, watching CNN in the diner.

One guy in particular was really morose, as his wife is very sick and goes in for dialysis I think twice a week. And they're both in their mid 70's and on Medicare/MediCal so I wouldn't think would have too much to worry about. But evidently he's researched the ramifications of the bill's amendments and is very worried. He said his wife's dialysis would have already cost over $130,000 if he had to pay for it. One of the other guys who voted for 45 because he hated HRC and undocumented immigrants said he didn't understand why we just didn't go with socialized medicine like in Canada and England. I'm thinking like maybe you should have stumped for Bernie, dude.

This one guy with the sick wife was so upset in particular I didn't have the heart to stick it to the group as in "careful what you wish for!" when casting your vote, but I did try to ease their pain by telling them that this AHCA 45Care had little to no chance to pass the Senate on to 45's desk. But I did offer my opinion that the 217 lemmings who followed 45 off this cliff of public unpopularity will have their day of reckoning in the upcoming midterm election. Wait till the CBO scores it (which of course 45 / Ryan wouldn't) and the thing dangles in the wind as the fake media lays it out for all to see how and who it hurts. And how it was hustled through without any examination or debate, a WORSE and more viciously regressive form of the first misbegotten and panned measure. And yet 45 bussed the whole contingent over to the Rose Garden for a victory dance and spiking of the football. Part way through the second quarter of the game.  ;)

#44 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,520 posts

Posted 04 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

From his utterances, it's obvious 45 has NO idea of what's in the bill.  Nor would he care if he did.
Cats will never be extinct!

#45 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 04 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

Putting this here as there was a lot of WTFJHT stuff about health care today, but I felt it should go here.

WTFJHT - Day 15: Health care?

Health care? Bill:
- House Passage: Republican controlled House barely passed (217-213) their Health care? bill to repeal/replace the ACA/Obamacare with no assessment on how much it would cost. No Democrats voted for it, and not all Republicans did.
- Senate: It goes to the Republican controlled Senate now, where Democrats are confident that some provisions of the bill will not comply with the special budget rules the Republicans must follow in order to skirt a Senate filibuster. Several Senate Republicans have said they will set aside this bill and create their own health care? bill. Senate Republicans are opting to use the special budget reconciliation rules to try to pass the bill by a simple majority, as they control the senate only by 52-48, and without this rule will need 60 votes.
- Pre-existing conditions: The bill will only protect 5% of people with pre-existing conditions. The MacArthur-Meadows Amendment would allow the following to be considered pre-existing conditions: sexual assault/rape, postpartum depression, cesarean sections, surviving domestic violence.
- Essential Benefits: Last minute amendment will allow states to waive 10 essential benefits, and potentially affect everyone not covered by Medicare or small-business plans. Among these essential benefits at risk are out-of-pocket costs for catastrophic illnesses, maternity care, prescription drugs, mental health treatment, and hospitalization. Companies can also deny coverage for gynaecological services and mammograms.
- Congress & Staff Exemption: There is still an exemption from the roll back of above Obamacare/ACA provisions for Congress and their staff members. A republican lawmakers has vowed to close the loophole in separate legislation.
- Special Education: Little noticed in the bill was that it has a target to cut special education by 25%. For nearly 30 years medicaid has helped school districts to provide services for students with disabilities and medicaid-eligible students.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,447 posts

Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:57 PM

I wonder if at some point in the future if 45 is asked to clarify, maybe on his way to prison, how he meant that his health care bill would be cheaper and better, he would cowboy up and be honest for once and say...well it IS, for the government!

#47 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:07 PM

WTFJHD had health care stuff today too (4 items), but nothing that was neither unknown, surprising or new, to me anyways.

I was reading that pre-existing conditions may include acne, many mental health issues, menstrual irregularities, pregnancy, sex-reassignment/trans-sexualism, among just about any condition, they might as well add human to the list of pre-existing conditions.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#48 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,624 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 01:05 AM

Don't worry: "If you like your Obamacare plan, you keep your Obamacare plan. Period. If you like your Obamacare Doctor, you keep your Obamacare Doctor." Oh wait, that's right...a lot of places only have one insurance provider in the exchange. In Iowa like 94, or 95 counties out of 99 only have one insurance provider. In Virginia, the one insurance provider, Aetna I believe it is, is planning on pulling out of the Obamacare exchange, which would leave that state with no insurance providers. Hey, at least Paul Ryan did trot out the whole "We have to pass this bill so you can find out what's in the bill." :sarcasm:

As for the GOP plan....Granted, it does leave a lot, and I do mean a lot, to be desired. IMO the GOP is making the exact same mistake the Democrats made when they rammed Obamacare down our throats. Only Democrats voted for Obamacare, and we see how well that is turning out. A lot of place with only 1 provider, and that one provider seriously thinking of leaving. Premiums rising up to, and in some places passing, the 100% increase mark. What really needs to be done is for both sides to stop the partisan BS and work together on a damn plan; but, of course, that won't happen. The Democrats are so set in their racism of Trump they won't work with him on anything.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#49 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 06:34 AM

^ Which is why you guys should have universal/single-payer health care.

The Republicans are so sure they know better… for the rich and for insurance companies that is. Do you know how this bill cuts taxes for the 1%? This is a transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1% which will leave more of the 99% with bankruptcy (seeking medical cost to avoid disability/death, not always successfully, leaving family with the bills), and either untreated illness (leading to disability and unemployment in some cases, to death in others).

It doesn't have to be the party in power, or even the second largest party which creates/compromises on important legislation. I have seen in a comments in a couple of the CBC articles on this Republican health care? legislation saying "Thank god for Tommy Douglas". I will save you the googling ;) He reformed health insurance, then fought for the first universal/single-payer health care program to North America (his successor ended up doing it the next year, in 1962). After Tommy Douglas moved into Federal politics as a party leader, and despite his party only having 17 seats out of 265, and despite it not being in the top two parties platform (though it was in his party's platform), universal health care went to a vote, and it passed in 1966, at the Federal level.

Edited by sierraleone, 06 May 2017 - 10:06 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#50 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:15 AM

High-risks pools (which will be horribly underfunded unless something changes) is another way to privatize profits (the insurance companies get the healthier more profitable people on their rolls), and socialize losses/costs (the government paying into costly high risk pools to try to cover people with pre-existing conditions).

Edited by sierraleone, 06 May 2017 - 07:19 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#51 Omega

Omega

    Nous sommes tous Franšais

  • Moderator
  • 3,985 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:55 AM

Every Republican representing Tennessee voted for this bill. For a while there I was half-way considering trying to primary one of them. I think I could stand having an ® next to my name if I made enough noise about how disgusting and immoral and anti-Christian the others were. But then I realized the time away from home wasn't worth it.

#52 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 09:55 AM

^ I hope there is someone that is primary-ing all the Tennessee republicans when their congressional district elections start that you can put your support behind instead :)

NYT has a list of how all the Congressional House members voted. Of course, if your representative is a democrat, no need to consult the list as they all voted no. If you want to know how a Republican represented voted take a lot. They have a number of lists, each of them are ordered by the state abbreviations of the house members, hopefully that assists you in finding your member.

How do you feel about your TN senators Omega? ;) Or at least Lamar Alexander:

Per CNN the Senate has just announced a group formed, of 13 Senate Republicans, who will be responsible for drafting the senate's health care? plan. Those 13 Republicans (all men, per the CNN article):

AR - Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas
CO - Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado
KY - Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky
OH - Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio
PA - Sen. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania
SD - Sen. John Thune of South Dakota
TN - HELP Chairman Lamar Alexander of Tennessee
TX - Sen. John Cornyn of Texas
TX - Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas
UT - Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch of Utah
UT - Sen. Mike Lee of Utah
WY - Sen. John Barrasso of Wyoming
WY - Budget Chairman Mike Enzi of Wyoming

Interestingly, three states have full senate representation here: TX, UT, & WY. All very reliably conservative states, especially on state-wide elections, I don't think they'd even be considered purple. Though I suppose members from safer districts are more likely to be able to gain influence in congress due to greater changes for gaining longevity and experience. (I wonder if that is part of what fuels the partisanship in congress, more congressman who are either more partisan, and/or representing more "politically" homogenous districts, are more likely to stick around and gather influence over time?).

Edited by sierraleone, 06 May 2017 - 10:24 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#53 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,520 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 09:56 AM

Is it going to take revolt in the streets to move us to single payer??  45 has no idea what is and isn't in this bill.  Maybe the house of unrepresentative wanted to move it to the  senate and let them do the work of hashing out details to make it more palatable?  Of course that would imply that they're able to think.
Cats will never be extinct!

#54 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,447 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:11 AM

I thought I could never hear as complete a liar as 45, but each and every one of the complicit GOP House members who lined up on TV to back his play and assure their simple and naive constituents that this was a dream bill and they had nothing to worry about should be lined up in a special corner of hell. And allowed to spin and roast there like the chickens at Costco, grease dripping off them, spattering and sizzling.

#55 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
  • Islander
  • 1,447 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:26 AM

Daily Kos is organizing a fund raising drive through their ActBlue program to help finance the campaigns of future Dem candidates in the vulnerable...(Hillary won or came close) 24 Congressional districts of Republicans who voted for this bill. They raised a million dollars in the first day. There are 5 or 6 California Reps on that list. I kicked in 50 bucks last night.

#56 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:27 AM

View PostThemis, on 06 May 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

Is it going to take revolt in the streets to move us to single payer??  45 has no idea what is and isn't in this bill.  Maybe the house of unrepresentative wanted to move it to the  senate and let them do the work of hashing out details to make it more palatable?  Of course that would imply that they're able to think.

Apparently the agitation at the town halls wasn't even enough for many Republicans to vote against this atrocious bill, a bill which is the opposite of movement towards single-payer….

Edited by sierraleone, 06 May 2017 - 10:28 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#57 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:42 PM

Not everything is Comey-related this week.

I found a video, of a constituent, at a town-hall, reaming out his Rep, Tom MacArthur, who, IIRC, authored an amendment named after himself that gut the protections for pre-existing conditions. It is on point, and takes apart all the Republican talking points on health care.

http://abcnews.go.co...h-care-47338603
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#58 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

CBO (Congressional Budget Office) has scored the House's Health Care? bill.

They do predict there will be less people uninsured in 10 years. Instead of 52 million Americans they predict it will be 51 million Americans. Basically back to what it was before the ACA.

Note: they predict even with the ACA that there will be 28 million uninsured in 10 years. There is 27 million right now that are uninsured. Considering that is only a 3.7% increase - from 27 to 28 - I assume that can be explained largely by factoring in population growth? And overall, the % of uninsured will change very little? As for why it is 27 million right now, wonder how many of those because of some states refusing to expand medicaid.

https://www.washingt...m=.50760f3d5323

Edited by sierraleone, 24 May 2017 - 09:54 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#59 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 8,804 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:51 AM

Bumping for today's developments.

From the WaPo
https://www.washingt...m=.1fe8519a4374

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#60 Omega

Omega

    Nous sommes tous Franšais

  • Moderator
  • 3,985 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:33 AM

So no individual mandate, but still requires insurance to cover preexisting conditions. In other words, it's nonsense, and would destroy the entire concept of health insurance if implemented.

With a seven year timeline, this is a bill that allows them to say "look, we repealed Obamacare!" without actually having to make sense. Those who pass it won't have to deal with the consequences. They know they won't be in power by then, and they'll get another decade to tell everyone to hate Democrats for passing single-payer in order to clean up the Republican mess.

Assuming we still have a country after another decade of this unamerican godless BS.


0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users