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Trump Fires Director Comey


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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:24 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...ctor-comey.html


:facepalm-f7e:

If President Trump had fired Comey immediately upon taking office, that would be one thing. Comey definitely deserved it after laying out the case against Hillary in the press conference, then pulling the 180 and saying "But no charges recommended." But to fire him now, when the FBI is investigating possible connections between Trump Camaign and Russia....The optics are SO bad here, and it seriously puts doubt on ANYONE President Trump nominates as Director.

Granted the whole Russia story was never going to go away, because the Left will refuse any outcome that doesn't say "Trump is guilty."; but by firing Comey now, President Trump has guarenteed that the news will lead with nothing BUT Russia.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#2 sierraleone

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 07:51 PM

So Trump has fired two people for lying now? No sense of irony there Donnie boy? ETA: or rather hypocrisy.

Edited by sierraleone, 09 May 2017 - 08:14 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#3 Omega

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:06 PM

He's fired three people who were investigating him. If the Republicans block a special prosecutor, they're traitors, straight up.

#4 sierraleone

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:23 PM

View PostOmega, on 09 May 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

He's fired three people who were investigating him. If the Republicans block a special prosecutor, they're traitors, straight up.

I only count former Acting AG Sally Yates, and now former FBI director James Comey…. Who am I missing? *scratches head*… Is it Preet Bharara, the former U.S. Attorney of Southern District of NY? (along with all the other district attorneys at the same time, but the SDNY Attorney was told initially that he would be staying on, as I recall).
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#5 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:59 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 09 May 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

I only count former Acting AG Sally Yates, and now former FBI director James Comey…. Who am I missing? *scratches head*… Is it Preet Bharara, the former U.S. Attorney of Southern District of NY? (along with all the other district attorneys at the same time, but the SDNY Attorney was told initially that he would be staying on, as I recall).

He fired Yates because of her refusal to follow his Executive Order. The AG serves at the pleasure of the President. Bharara was fired, along with all other district attorneys, as is custom. Obama did it, just like all other Presidents have. No conspiracy here.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#6 sierraleone

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:36 AM

LOTS - Do you believe Trump, from what is publicly know about him, is incapable of knowingly colluding with the Russians to interfere in the election?

See, if there is collusion, I think it is possible that one or more of Trump's associates in the campaign/transition/administration could have done it without Trumps permission/knowledge, just because there is so many unknowns. Lots of smoke of course, but we haven't found the fire (if there is one), and we know very little about these people's character as they are not in the spot-light.

Trump's character we know about. He cheated many business associates out of their pay. He swindled his customers out of their money. He is extremely litigious, even for a real-estate mogul. These all speak to character. Though he plays them off as part of doing business, including pay-to-play. He is a bully, arrogant, cocky. He is also ignorant. The only reasons someone could think his is incapable or, or wouldn't have, colluded with the Russians is they either believe that he didn't have the opportunity (based on what?), or they trust this man.

I don't trust this man; I see no reason to, based on what has been revealed about his character over and over again.

I am willing to say it is definitely possible that he didn't collude, and that if there was collusion if was one of his campaign officials/associates. But I am not willing to say that there is no possible way that a person like Trump would refuse to knowingly collude with Russia/Russians to interfere with an event, including an election, that would benefit Trump. Would you be willing to say that (and believe it)? If so, why?

It is really funny (well, maybe ironic, if one has lost their funny bone in relation to Russia interfering in the election), to look back at Trump's campaign. Was he projecting oftentimes when he smeared his opponents, and when he said the election was rigged?

Edited by sierraleone, 10 May 2017 - 08:04 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 cade

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:58 AM

LOTS, the most powerful person on Earth is blatantly obstructing justice and yet the primary concern you're expressing here is over how this looks for him.

Look at what Trump has done to you.

#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:33 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 10 May 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

LOTS - Do you believe Trump, from what is publicly know about him, is incapable of knowingly colluding with the Russians to interfere in the election?

Is Trump incapable of colluding with Russia, during the campaign? Of course not. One thing I've learned is that anybody is capable of anything, given the right circumstances. However, having said that, this investigation has been going on for how long now? And no evidence, whatsoever, that Trump or any of his staff colluded with Russian officials.

Quote

I am willing to say it is definitely possible that he didn't collude, and that if there was collusion if was one of his campaign officials/associates. But I am not willing to say that there is no possible way that a person like Trump would refuse to knowingly collude with Russia/Russians to interfere with an event, including an election, that would benefit Trump. Would you be willing to say that (and believe it)? If so, why?

Again, anybody is capable of anything, given the right circumstances. But the investigation has been going on for a very long time, even longer then we knew if it's True former Director Comey and the FBI had been investigating collusion before we knew about any possible connection. If there was anything to be found, any proof at all, surely they would have found it by now?

Quote

. Was he projecting oftentimes when he smeared his opponents, and when he said the election was rigged?

Smearing his opponents was Trump's way of fighting back against them. As for his comments about the election being rigged, I've already given my thoughts on that in another thread, awhile ago. I believe that despite Trump's claims to the contrary, he and his team believed Hillary was going to win. The claims of election rigging was nothing more then Trump's excuse to his supporters about why he lost, it was his way out of the election without, in Trump's mind, being a loser.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:34 AM

View Postcade, on 10 May 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:


Look at what Trump has done to you.

What has Trump done to me?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#10 sierraleone

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:05 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 10 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 10 May 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

I am willing to say it is definitely possible that he didn't collude, and that if there was collusion if was one of his campaign officials/associates. But I am not willing to say that there is no possible way that a person like Trump would refuse to knowingly collude with Russia/Russians to interfere with an event, including an election, that would benefit Trump. Would you be willing to say that (and believe it)? If so, why?

Again, anybody is capable of anything, given the right circumstances. But the investigation has been going on for a very long time, even longer then we knew if it's True former Director Comey and the FBI had been investigating collusion before we knew about any possible connection. If there was anything to be found, any proof at all, surely they would have found it by now?

Investigations are not like they are on TV shows, where a new case is tidily wrapped up every week.

And sure "anything is possible, given the right circumstances", but I was speaking to Trump's character, not the "his kid is kidnapped / the Russians are coercing him / etc" scenario. What is normal Trump? His character, what would he naturally be inclined to do or not do, under otherwise typical circumstances for the situation?

Based on the balance of information available, what I know of Trump, do I think he would turn down Russian help to influence the election either against Clinton or for Trump? No. I haven't seen any sign that this man has integrity. So I don't trust that he feel morally disinclined to such voluntarily offered assistance from Russia/Russians. You?

Seek it out is another matter. I am not sure if he has the intelligence, but I am sure he has the slimy-ness. Though an associate could have sought it, and could have brought it to him. Ambition and cunning can certainly make up for lack of traditionally measured intelligence in cases.

Edited by sierraleone, 10 May 2017 - 09:08 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#11 cade

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:37 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 10 May 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

View Postcade, on 10 May 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

Look at what Trump has done to you.

What has Trump done to me?

I was hoping you'd ask yourself that, given the standard you held Obama and Hillary to. Imagine how you would've reacted if they'd fired someone who's leading an investigation of their campaign/administration. I don't want to make this personal. The focus should be 100% on Trump. But unfortunately he has so much support now, with all three branches of government controlled by Republicans, his corruption will be protected and concealed as much as possible until a substantial amount of his supporters start caring more about the rule of law than the optics for Trump.

Edited by cade, 10 May 2017 - 09:37 AM.


#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:49 AM

View Postcade, on 10 May 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:


I was hoping you'd ask yourself that, given the standard you held Obama and Hillary to. Imagine how you would've reacted if they'd fired someone who's leading an investigation of their campaign/administration. I don't want to make this personal. The focus should be 100% on Trump. But unfortunately he has so much support now, with all three branches of government controlled by Republicans, his corruption will be protected and concealed as much as possible until a substantial amount of his supporters start caring more about the rule of law than the optics for Trump.

You have a valid point, concerning the partisan politics. If Obama had fired someone in charge of investigating him, I would be highly suspicious. I'll concede that point.

I guess the reason I'm so willing to take President Trump at his word is partly because of the partisan hypocrisy of the Left. The Left had absolutely no problem whatsoever with Obama trying to interfere with Israel's election, but now are suddenly concerned about possible election interference??? Of course election interference is a bad thing, and should be investigated. But don't condone one blatant interference and then condemn a possible one, just because of politics.

As for one party controlling all 3 branches. Normally I don't like one party rule. However, politics are SO partisan now that having one party rule is really the only way anything will get done. It was the way Obamacare got ramned through. Not a single Republican voted for it, when Democrats had controll of all 3 branches. And let's face facts: Harry Reid created the nuclear senate, so Obama could pack the courts with Liberal Judges, because the GOP weren't working with the Democrats. Same holds true today. The Democrats, for the first time EVER, did a partisan filibuster of a Supreme Court nominee, all out of revenge for the way the GOP refused to give a hearing for Obama's nominee. Right now there is literally no way the Democrats will work with President Trump. Yes, the Congress did do a CR, to keep government funded til Sept, but most of that CR had been previously negogiated with the Obama administration.

So are partisan politics covering my perceptions a bit? More than likely. IMO, that's just the natural result of anytime I disagreed with Obama I was labeled racist, bigoted, etc. So 8 years of the Left trying to force me to comply by throwing negative labels at me has me looking at things through partisan glasses. It's the reason I've been labeling anyone who disagrees with President Trump a racist. Turn about is fair play afterall.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#13 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:51 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 10 May 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:


Investigations are not like they are on TV shows, where a new case is tidily wrapped up every week.


I'm not saying that they have to solve it within a 45 minute, or hour long, episode. But 6 to 8 months should be enough time to conduct an investigation.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#14 sierraleone

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 11:01 AM

This comment on a Washington Post column gave me chuckles:

Quote

I'm sure Trump has a perfectly treasonable explanation for firing the FBI director.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 Elara

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 11:12 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 09 May 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

He fired Yates because of her refusal to follow his Executive Order. The AG serves at the pleasure of the President. Bharara was fired, along with all other district attorneys, as is custom. Obama did it, just like all other Presidents have. No conspiracy here.

True, that is why he fired her, but you leave out that she refused to follow the EO because she felt it was unconstitutional (and it was). She was doing her job, as the people would expect anyone in government to do, protect the Constitution. Isn't that their job? Isn't ignoring our Constitution something a "dic"tator would do?
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#16 sierraleone

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:04 PM

Trump tweets today that Comey had lost the confidence of almost everyone in Washington, and that when the dust settles people will be thanking Trump for firing Comey. I may end up thanking him, but not in the way he thinks….  I think dust settles to him translates to the Trump Campaign-Russian possible connections being forgotten about. If there was collusion that gets found out, I will definitely be thanking Trump for increasing the scrutiny on him and the Russia investigation by making this decision.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#17 cade

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 06:28 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 10 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

You have a valid point, concerning the partisan politics. If Obama had fired someone in charge of investigating him, I would be highly suspicious. I'll concede that point.

I guess the reason I'm so willing to take President Trump at his word is partly because of the partisan hypocrisy of the Left. The Left had absolutely no problem whatsoever with Obama trying to interfere with Israel's election, but now are suddenly concerned about possible election interference??? Of course election interference is a bad thing, and should be investigated. But don't condone one blatant interference and then condemn a possible one, just because of politics.

As for one party controlling all 3 branches. Normally I don't like one party rule. However, politics are SO partisan now that having one party rule is really the only way anything will get done. It was the way Obamacare got ramned through. Not a single Republican voted for it, when Democrats had controll of all 3 branches. And let's face facts: Harry Reid created the nuclear senate, so Obama could pack the courts with Liberal Judges, because the GOP weren't working with the Democrats. Same holds true today. The Democrats, for the first time EVER, did a partisan filibuster of a Supreme Court nominee, all out of revenge for the way the GOP refused to give a hearing for Obama's nominee. Right now there is literally no way the Democrats will work with President Trump. Yes, the Congress did do a CR, to keep government funded til Sept, but most of that CR had been previously negogiated with the Obama administration.

So are partisan politics covering my perceptions a bit? More than likely. IMO, that's just the natural result of anytime I disagreed with Obama I was labeled racist, bigoted, etc. So 8 years of the Left trying to force me to comply by throwing negative labels at me has me looking at things through partisan glasses. It's the reason I've been labeling anyone who disagrees with President Trump a racist. Turn about is fair play afterall.

Credit to you for being honest about your bias. It's because of how biased his supporters are that Trump seriously thinks they can be fooled into believing he fired Comey in part because Comey was unfair to Hillary, when in fact Trump touted Comey's criticism of her ad nauseam and celebrated Comey for his interference in the election just 11 days from the vote.

I've never actually believed that Trump colluded with Russia, but it's obvious that he has something terrible to hide here. An innocent man would be welcoming an investigation so he'd be exonerated. It's not like he's some poor minority unlikely to get a fair hearing. He's the President. The power of that office has so many incredible advantages and is treated with almost religious deference in this country, yet Trump is still so terrified of what might be found that he fired the lead investigator.

As for Democrats not working with Trump, what has he given them to work with? He's gone very far to the right and not even attempted to work with them on anything other than ostensibly the budget, but there his hand was forced and he was basically shut out of negotiations anyway because his proposals were so extreme even to GOP leadership.

Conversely, Obama went out of his way to compromise with Republicans. His health care plan was very much in line with what Republicans proposed in the '90s and far to the right of Nixon's plan. I can go on and on with examples of how Obama tacked to the right to appease Republicans. For just one more, he offered them big cuts to Social Security and Medicare if only they'd agree to raise $1 in taxes on the wealthy for every $10 in spending cuts. That wasn't far-right enough for Republicans. Their obstructionism on judges and any significant legislation was completely unprecedented.

#18 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:07 PM

View PostElara, on 10 May 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:


True, that is why he fired her, but you leave out that she refused to follow the EO because she felt it was unconstitutional (and it was). She was doing her job, as the people would expect anyone in government to do, protect the Constitution. Isn't that their job? Isn't ignoring our Constitution something a "dic"tator would do?

We have yet to find out whether or not the EO is constitutional. Yes, it was blocked by a court, and the 9th circuit (which has a 95% overturn rate by the USSC) upheld that block. We'll have to wait til it goes to the USSC to discover whether or not it was unconstitutional.

Her job was to uphold and follow the law. She didn't do that. The courts hadn't blocked the order when she refused the EO. And when you refuse to do what your boss tells you, you usually wind up unemployeed.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:16 PM

View Postcade, on 10 May 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

For just one more, he offered them big cuts to Social Security and Medicare if only they'd agree to raise $1 in taxes on the wealthy for every $10 in spending cuts. That wasn't far-right enough for Republicans. Their obstructionism on judges and any significant legislation was completely unprecedented.

OMG! Flashback. I do remember seeing that GOP debate, when they were asked if they would support the 10 for 1, and not one of those morons would. Yes, they should've. But that is exactly my point about the massive partisan politics at play. The GOP refused, under Obama, to work with him at all. They saw their job as being party of No. Now the tables have turned, and the Democrats are viewing their job as being Anti Trump, no matter what.

Hell, just a few months ago the Democrats were calling for Comey to either be fired or resign. Now that he is fired, the Democrats flip flop and are outraged. The back to back showing of those clips, where a few months ago they want Comey gone, and now where it's Trump being a tyrant, showcase their hypocrisy perfectly. In fact, I'm actually starting to wonder if that is why Trump did it the way he did, so the Democrats would flip flop and their hypocrisy would be on stage for all the world to see? Not that that would be a good reason for firing someone.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#20 Omega

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:27 PM

The 9th circuit does not have a 95% overturn rate. It has a 95% overturn rate of those appeals the USSC accepts. That is an entirely different statement.


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