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Trump Fires Director Comey


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#41 sierraleone

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:40 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 May 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

http://www.foxnews.c...over-leaks.html

I'm going to give President Trump the benefit of the doubt and say that this was Trump's humor gone horribly wrong. I'm guessing Trump was irritated by the media's constant comparison between him and Nixon, he just tweeted what he thought would be a funny joke. Not really sure how I feel about a President joking about a very serious situation like this though.

As for cancelling the Press Briefings....Absolutely, positively, the worst idea possible.

So your concerns is that he possibly has a inappropriate sense of humour here, and that you think that cancelling the Press Briefings are a horrible idea (or it that his inappropriate humour again - not likely consider other rumblings early on about changing things around with Press Briefings).

So are these your utmost concerns here? Leaving completely aside the possible Trump/Trump campaign Russia connections/collusion. You are more concerned about those than:

- the incompetence shown by Trump and his administration has shown this week
(which seems funny until you realize the powers they have, and the consequences of mis-using them)

- their relationship with the truth
(which seems funny until you realize they are suppose to lead or support congress in fixing problems, while communicating as clearly and truthfully as possible to citizens what their plan is, and why they are doing it).

- their relationship to each other
(" ", and using DAG to come up with a pre-text to fire someone, then throwing DAG under the bus, then when that came back to bit him in the ass, throwing his VP & the rest of his press people under the bus. And, related to the incompetence bit, didn't even have to the decent to be professional in Comey's firing, and there was already a review on Comey's behaviour/actions vis-a-vis the email investigation that they did not wait for, if that was the reason for his decision. Which it was not)

- appears that Trump wanted an independent subordinate agency head to pledge complete loyalty to him.
Unspecified/blank-check loyalty pledges really shouldn't be a thing, for anyone….
(which, with the flip flop on kindness to Hillary, seems funny, until you realize that Trump is acting like a King, or even an autocrat, and doesn't care for checks and balances. To create a pretense that there are checks and balances he used DAG to create a letter provided pre-text to fire Comey different from the real reasons Trump fired him).

I mean, Conway even said this week that it was "inappropriate" to question Trump. I rather think it is inappropriate for her to think it is inappropriate. There is no sense in having any trust, or even a pretense of trust, in their decency and/or that they are working for the good of American people. Heck, the Trump administration have dropped the pretense of that this week, which is why it would make no sense that anyone else if giving them any benefit of the doubt on their decency. Entirely sychophantic, all of them, without a moral fibre in-between them.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 May 2017 - 04:07 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#42 Elara

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:42 PM

And who would know best why recording is a bad idea? John Dean:

Quote

John Dean‏Verified account @JohnWDean


John Dean Retweeted Donald J. Trump

Obviously, President Trump is confused. He is the one who must hope there are no tapes. Honest people don't have problems being taped.


View PostLord of the Sword, on 12 May 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

http://www.foxnews.c...over-leaks.html

I'm going to give President Trump the benefit of the doubt and say that this was Trump's humor gone horribly wrong. I'm guessing Trump was irritated by the media's constant comparison between him and Nixon, he just tweeted what he thought would be a funny joke. Not really sure how I feel about a President joking about a very serious situation like this though.

As for cancelling the Press Briefings....Absolutely, positively, the worst idea possible.

I just don't buy that it was his humor. I think he did what he has always done, resorted to threats. I don't think it even occurred to him that he is speaking as the President of the US.

Of course it's a bad idea to cancel the briefings, but in his case, he simply has to. He can't keep his story straight from one time to another, and it happens every time. If he keeps speaking, everyone will notice, and accept what he is, eventually.
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#43 gsmonks

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:55 PM

The reason Twitler isn't in the slammer right now is because GOP members A) don't give a rat's arse about the truth, and B) think the ends justify the means. The lack of honesty makes no impression on them.

The other part of the equation is that they're in office, and for sociopaths like Mitch McConnel that's good enough.

The  big question right now is, Is the GOP's desire to cling to power greater than their desire to do something about Twitler? If, as I suspect, that it's the former, then Twitler will gradually turn the US into a Fascist regime.
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#44 Omega

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 05:56 PM

The thing is, even if they impeach Trump, they still have a Republican President Pence! The only rational calculation they could possibly be making is that Trump supporters will run them out of office if they turn on him.

OR, the Russians have blackmail on all of them.

#45 gsmonks

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:05 PM

One thing never mentioned about Trump, and the desire on the part of uneducated louts who think it would be good for a businessman to be in office, is any awareness whatsoever about big businesses and how they're run:

Democracy is anathema to corporations and how they operate, and vice versa. Corporations, within the context of Democracies, are run like Feudal fiefs, which is, in fact, what they are. They are prevented, from varying degrees, from operating like full-blown Feudal fiefs, by the machinery of the Democracies in which they reside (oversight in place to protect workers' rights and to monitor corporate practices).

Putting a CEO in charge of running a country is just asking for trouble. To begin with, Trump's tenure as CEO is an admixture of organised crime and proxy business dealings (the latter being an indicator or organised crime- EG: Mafia don's using legitimate businesses as a front or distraction to conceal shady and illegal business). Further, it's clear that this is the very reason for not publishing Trump's income tax history. Trump isn't the type to care about appearance, ergo it's the substance of those returns he's being a loathsome sneak about.

Edited by gsmonks, 12 May 2017 - 07:08 PM.

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#46 sierraleone

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:31 PM

I found a conservative Washington Post writer ripping apart the GOP for their non-response to this.

https://www.washingt...m=.80ff883e458a

Quote

One has to be free from shame to agree that it’s no big deal when Trump confesses he fired former FBI director James B. Comey because he decided Russian interference in the election was “just a made-up story.”

And here they are writing for The Salt Lake Tribune on the three dumbest defences of Comey's firing.

I hope to god that conservatives like this can convince *some* conservatives that shrugging this off is worse than just dumb...
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#47 gsmonks

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:44 AM

It would be nice if Conservatives weren't fundamentally morally corrupt, but they are. This is too big and complicated a subject for the here and now, but Conservatives plus money & religion is a whole entire area of study. Part of what we call modern Conservatism is a bad marriage between the Evangelical movement, business, and politics. Evangelists preach Christianity, money, and Conservatism all mixed together in a poisonous brew of religious, political, monetary, and social entitlement. It's basically a self-brainwashing programme to absolve its members of social responsibility, guilt, the need for a level playing-field, and the need to answer for their behaviour. It's the source of the sociopathic mentality of a Mitch McConnel, Ted Cruze, or Marco Rubio, all of whom want to turn the US into a theocracy, all of whom believe that they and only they have the right to run the country, if not the world.

You have to remember how many organisations associated with Conservatism are either Fascist or quasi-Fascist: the Neo-Cons, the NRA, certain layers of the GOP onion that collude with corporate America (which has its counterpart in the form of conservative Democrats), and much of Corporate America. Collectively, they want unlimited power at any cost, and always have. They will not willingly let go of it.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#48 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:18 PM

I posted an alternative slant on Trump's " threat to Comey" tweet over on the Potus, post-100 days thread. I also sent it in to the LA Times as an opinion letter to the editor in response to their front page article headed, 'Trump hints at secret taping in White House'. Here's what I said to the Times....

~Trump's tweet about Comey has a second possible context you have not mentioned. And since both Spicer and Trump have refused to discuss and clarify it further it is equally valid.

"James Comey better hope there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!"

Due to typical Trumpian rhetorical imprecision it could just as easily be construed as meaning Comey better hope that he himself had not "taped" Trump during their dinner or phone conversations. Because that would be illegal or improper per DOJ guidelines, and Trump has already manifested paranoia about minions of Obama "wiretapping" him. I don't think Trump,is smart enough to have set up this contextual ambiguity. But when his Twitter PR cleaning crew is done reworking the tweet's possible meanings I could see this being used to fend off Congressional requests or subpoenas for an imaginary White House taping system.

And in the meantime new cycle attention is deflected away from Trump's motivation for firing Comey.  ~

I'm not suggesting that 45 is sharp enough to have set up this potential tweet double entendre, at least without help from some smarter cookie. But if I can see it and point it out so can some Harvard educated White House counsel or even a PR hack brought over from Fox News.

Edited by yadda yadda, 13 May 2017 - 07:03 PM.


#49 sierraleone

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

^ Could be that he -or a place-holder- is, or will later, could try to claim that he suspects Comey was recording Trump. Outside of the authority/procedures/investigation of the FBI? Meh.

People say that Trump lies all the time. I read a comment elsewhere (maybe I'll see if I can find it later) that said, no. To be a liar is a craft, requires skill and planning and purpose to carefully place it among a constellation of other facts. Because liars care if they get caught, as getting caught has consequences they care about avoiding.

Trump, they argued, is a b*llsh*t artist. Lots more creatively available on that canvas, as it doesn't have to fit in with other facts. Trump and crew can use it to make useful narrative using what he or his crew might call truthful hyperbole or alternative facts. In other words b*llsh*t. If you were to call it lies, it would be of the insolent, dumb, and/or fun varieties, all which suggest no respect for the listener (unless it is intended purely for entertainment, in a context where b*llsh*t may be expected). Someone who crafts lies respects the fact that they could be caught, so they will formulate their lies well to well hide them.

Trump, being born with a silver spoon, never having a real job, being an autocrat as CEO, never had to concern himself with his b*llsh*t having real consequences.

Not saying Trump has never crafted lies, I am sure he has. But there has not been a huge need for him to do so based on his life experience. So, he is an b*llsh*t artist, that has what has helped him most in life.

Maybe that is why people like him. It is so apparent he did not get where he is in life on skills, or crafts, of actual weight or importance. If he could make it as far as he did just bullshitting there is hope for the rest of us…. They seem to forget that he started on 3rd base.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#50 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:50 PM

^^ I'd be willing to look at the source of your contention, but in my opinion that's just semantic shuffling of reality, substituting an extraneous made up definition for the more standard accurate and simpler one. A liar is one who lies, tells a falsehood with intent. The latter clause indicating intent or foreknowledge of the falsehood to differentiate between a liar and one who unintentionally passes falsities. To be a liar is not a craft, nor does it require an advanced degree or special training, practice, or apprenticeship to be a liar. A five year old kid who says he didn't eat the cake upon being confronted when the fact that his mouth and fingers and tongue are covered in frosting that belies the tale is still a liar and no rhetoric massaging expert. His assertion is not a crafted false response. It's an immature denial of reality designed to avoid incurring consequence.

45 is indeed a bullspit artist. But he is first and foremost a liar who lies bigly, and reflexively because he is a pathological liar. His lies are free flowing, not crafted, because he can't help himself. He lies to present himself in a world of reality as strong, forthright, of highest moral character and motivation. Since he is none of those things he needs to falsely portray himself and his actions and statements to mimic or fit in with reality as he sees it. That's why he changes his opinion and positions so frequently, to offer a false face more amenable or form fitting to reality and reactions to him. That's why his surrogates have to play such a contortionist version of Twister to try and match the pace of his ever changing lie-scape. Those who agree with his personal reality are great people, honest and honorable. Those who can't accept the reality of his wishful imagination are bad people, horrible enemies of truth and reason.But bottom line 45 is a liar who lies. Constantly.

Edited by yadda yadda, 13 May 2017 - 02:55 PM.


#51 sierraleone

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 03:21 PM

^ You are right. Both speak lies. It is just that crafty liars have a relationship with the truth. They know what the truth is. They even care about what the truth is, in the sense that they have to use an understanding of it to craft lies that people will believe, or at least think is plausible. Bullspit artists hardly even have a relationship with the truth, unless it is neglect (because they know the truth and just don't care), or ignorance  (because they are too delusional or obtuse to know the truth). Though, that means bullspit artists aren't always liars; if one makes/repeats a falsehood from a place of ignorance does that make one a liar? There is no intent there. Though, in a person in a position of power, that is probably scarier. There is no reasoning with them, they have to be made to care about the truth, and/or be able to be convinced that the truth is something they were too delusion or obtuse to realize in the first place.

An aside - I had wonder after my last post if it it looked like I was elevating the word/concept of craft over art. And then I reflected on the fact that craft is a verb (in additional to a noun). Art is not. Art is just a noun (at least in the typical use in the english language). Art just is.

Edited by sierraleone, 13 May 2017 - 08:11 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#52 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 13 May 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

^ You are right. Both both speak lies. It is just that crafty liars have a relationship with the truth. They know what the truth is. They even care about what the truth is, in the sense that they have to use an understanding of it to craft lies that people will believe, or at least think is plausible. Bullspit artists hardly even have a relationship with the truth, unless it is neglect (because they know the truth and just don't care), or ignorance  (because they are too delusional or obtuse to know the truth). Though, that means bullspit artists aren't always liars; if one makes/repeats a falsehood from a place of ignorance does that make one a liar? There is no intent there. Though, in a person in a position of power, that is probably scarier. There is no reasoning with them, they have to care what the truth is, and/or be able to be convinced that the truth is something they were too delusion or obtuse to realize in the first place.

An aside - I had wonder after my last post if it it looked like I was elevating the word/concept of craft over art. And then I reflected on the fact that craft is a verb (in additional to a noun). Art is not. Art is just a noun (at least in the typical use in the english language). Art just is.

It is true that passing falsity from ignorance, or false belief, is likely not actual lying. Like 45 and climate science, thousands  of  Muslims dancing on the roofs in NJ, celebrating 9-11, his super- duper record breaking inaugural crowd size, 3-5 million undocumented immigrant fraudulent voters for Hillary, every conspiracy he's repeated from Breitbart or the National Enquirer. It's probably just what he believes in his manipulated and cultivated ignorance, like the Seinfeld reference to George Costanza assuring Jerry "it's not a lie if YOU believe it!" But it could be, you just don't know. When 45 says climate change is a fraud perpetrated by the Chinese, is that because he believes it? Or is it because he's skeptical of climate science but is throwing in a lie about Chinese responsibility for political advantage? Is it a lie when 45 tells Fox that he never questioned Comey about his loyalty (as has been asserted) but wouldn't it be a good and appropriate question to ask? He knows whether he asked Comey for his loyalty or not. He's trying the tried and true strategy he used like when asked if he told Flynn to talk about sanctions with Kislyak. No, of course not. But if he did I don't have a problem with it. I probably should have told him to. That's his job. So probably just another example of 45 lying and covering his ample a$$ at the same time.

As far as a good or crafty liar as you put it lying more effectively because he knows the truth, and takes its existence into account when crafting a lie, that's true for a practiced liar. Someone like Paul Ryan or Mike Pence. Which must've been very crushingly disconcerting for Pence to have his carefully crafted lie about Rosenstein's predominant influence in canning Comey so spectacularly exposed when 45 gave his interview. Anybody seen or heard from Pence since then? :)

But aside from 45's fabulist bullspitting about stuff like the Wall, do you really think that he really thinks that a wall will ever be built? Or that Mexico will pay for it? I mean this guy is a builder, a real estate developer. That's one thing you'd figure in all his ignorance he would have some clue about its real life feasibility. So when he assures his crowds of slack-jawed droolers that they can bet their bottom dollar his Wall will be built, is he bullspitting or flat out lying?

To me a craft in the sense you used it refers to an acquired skill level that someone develops over time through practice, experience, and learning. As in the sense of a craftsman or tradesman, a professional cabinet or furniture builder, an artisanal baker, a micro-brewer. And craftiness has little or no relation to one who practices or plies a craft. Being crafty means one who is possessed of skills to plan ahead or deal quickly with situations, able to draw on experience and quick wit to plan or react to circumstance. Similar to being wily and able to draw and act upon ones developed wiles. By the way, I really enjoy passing ideas back and forth with you and letting them percolate through our consciousnesses. Good stuff!  :)

Edited by yadda yadda, 13 May 2017 - 05:41 PM.


#53 sierraleone

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:07 PM

According to business insider Comey willing to testify - if the hearing is public. If that happens I wonder if he will be the grandstand-iest showboater ;) No that that is what I would want, as amusing as that might be for a hot minute. I just hope he keeps his loyalty to the truth.

https://www.google.c...p-russia-2017-5
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#54 yadda yadda

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:19 PM

I heard that too, so happy! He may want to be subpoenaed, so he's compelled to peel this bloated orange down to just juice and pulp. I think Comey will kill him with coolness.

#55 gsmonks

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 09:55 PM

79% support from the GOP, despite everything. Seems the rise in Fascism is as much a reflection of the electorate.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#56 Omega

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

I think "support from the GOP" needs to be broken down. I'd like to see a poll of "would you like to see Trump resign and Pence to become President?" That would be the much more interesting number.

#57 gsmonks

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 03:35 PM

View PostOmega, on 14 May 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think "support from the GOP" needs to be broken down. I'd like to see a poll of "would you like to see Trump resign and Pence to become President?" That would be the much more interesting number.

View PostOmega, on 14 May 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think "support from the GOP" needs to be broken down. I'd like to see a poll of "would you like to see Trump resign and Pence to become President?" That would be the much more interesting number.

The 79% support is specifically that for Trump. Pence's numbers are much lower, in part thanks to Trump's handing out of talking points to his minions, then making fools of them by not following those talking points himself. It's a pathetically transparent ploy to make himself appear to be the only competent member of his cabal, and to further consolidate power in the form of his own person. Unfortunately, his supporters are too obtuse and too blinkered to see through it.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#58 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 08:55 PM

I'm very surprised to say that I watched the entire Chris Wallace Fox Sunday show this morning and have to report it was fairly objective with no punches pulled. The whole show was devoted to the Comey firing. Wallace said right up front that efforts were made to get WH reps on but when they were apprised of the subject that avenue was denied. They were willing to come on to pimp tax cuts or healthcare, but no go on Comey.

The panel they had was comprised of two conservatives, Karl Rove and Josh Holmes, a former McConnell chief advisor. Neutrality was represented by Julie Pace of AP and Bob Woodward of Watergate fame. Even Rove and Holmes had to admit that while within his power to fire Comey, the timing, admitted motivation, and method of execution were extremely problematic for 45. While the tone and passion was more mellow than our usual leftie-middle outlets, it had to be very aggravating and blood pressure elevating for the mango-in-chief as he likely didn't expect to hear such discouraging words from his usually friendly media home on the range.

Maybe Chris Wallace thinks it important to maintain the appearance of a being a truly objective journalist? If so, good for him.

Edited by yadda yadda, 14 May 2017 - 08:58 PM.


#59 gsmonks

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:27 PM

I tend to measure sanity by the degree and willingness to cross well-established lines. When lines are crossed willy-nilly without awareness and intent, it's a sure sign the person at the controls has either lost it or never had it.

My neighbour many years ago, dear old Mrs Klassen, said it best: she said, "Some people have no sense." That one word conveyed volumes of meaning. It takes a few moments of reflection to absorb the full implications.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.


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