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#45 reveals highly classified info to Russians

Trump National Security 2017 Impeachable offenses

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#21 yadda yadda

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:57 PM

I remember how back when 45's Muslim ban was blocked by federal judges there were 45 supporters, thousands of them dancing on rooftops, and screaming that these judges would be responsible if even one terrorist got in and killed Americans. The blood would be on their hands was the chant that went up.

Now that the clock strikes twelve for 45, and he turns into the rotten pumpkin who disclosed classified secrets to his Russian handlers that jeopardize an allied intel operation into stopping ISIS plans to blow up airliners with laptop bombs I find myself wondering. Wondering why we're not hearing those same screaming 45 supporter's outrage at their president's treasonous stupidity and claiming that if one civil airliner gets blown out of the sky, maybe soon as ISIS realizing its infiltration accelerates it's campaign and evil goals, that all that blood will be on the president's tiny hands. The rooftops are empty, and conspicuously silent.

Edited by yadda yadda, 15 May 2017 - 10:22 PM.


#22 sierraleone

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:10 PM

Trump is soon doing his first international trip as POTUS….  Starts in the Middle East, and by next weekend he will be at a NATO summit… From what I've read they are child-proofing the summit (and I don't mean against him getting in contact with intel, as this being planned for before the topic of this thread became common knowledge. I mean they are dumbing it down for him).

Edited by sierraleone, 15 May 2017 - 10:13 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#23 yadda yadda

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:17 PM

Hopefully he won't come back. Maybe he can defect to Russia while he's over there, one step ahead of the posse.

#24 gsmonks

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:42 PM

I've had this discussion RE secrets on other forums, and I am of the stance that there should be none, ever, that there should always be 100% full disclosure.

Secrets are only necessary when you get sucked into playing the smarmy spy-game.

A hold on sensitive information is okay, such as during warfare, but only a temporary hold.

Secrets are for liars, weasels, and scumbags.
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#25 sierraleone

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:04 AM

Gawd, he is tweeting about it this morning.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump



As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump



...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.


So, he has basically admitted to the credibility of the content of the WaPo story. And is using a line of reasoning his feels his supporters will lap up. Does he have this right, if the intelligence was shared under an agreement that the access be highly restricted? Well, we all know he has trouble with the concept of consent, so I can see why he doesn't see the problem. What about his supporters? Or do they see him as a King? And/or are they going to go "Are you punking us Donald? Oh, your punking us! Good one. Never believe the media! Only believe in King Donald, all hail King Donald! Oh, you did do it? Oh, I am sure you had a good reason King Donald."

Edited by sierraleone, 16 May 2017 - 07:15 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#26 yadda yadda

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:22 AM

So now that 45 has dealt with and admitted the "IF IT'S TRUE" question, I wonder how that fact will settle in with those Fox watchers and 45 apologists? And what I can't understand, even if you believe that the POTUS has the "right" to declassify top secret information, what gives him the right to pass it on directly to agents of an adversarial foreign state? And if this info is now declassified by his de facto action, can anyone petition/file to have it publicly released under the Freedom Of Information Act? I mean thank the gods that the Washington Post has shown restraint, but what's to stop Buzzfeed  or Breitbart from getting it and plastering it all over the internet?

#27 gsmonks

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:16 AM

The death of truth = the end of democracy. Where we're at right now is eerily similar to the 1930's rise of Nazism and Fascism.
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#28 Virgil Vox

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:33 PM

I get that as President he has the right to share this information but just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean they should. This was apparently classified intelligence gathered by someone or someones that wanted it shared with only a limited number of people and Trump just didn't care. He told the Russians because it was, in his mind, a great way to show the awesome intelligence he gets as President.

It also was a dumb move because the Russian story isn't going away, in part because of Trump's actions. He fires Comey and then says in an interview he fired him because of the Russian investigation, which is basically admitting to obstruction of justice. He then gives highly classified intelligence to the Russians which just makes him look guiltier to a lot of people.

As for Fox News, as far as I can tell they're downplaying it but saying Trump was doing the right thing and trying to blame the "mainstream media" for being hypocritical and being too hard on Trump. Never mind how hypocritical they were during Obama's administration and never mind how they were the ones being harder on Obama. The biggest lie Fox News has ever told and gotten people to believe is that they're an impartial news channel when they're nothing more than a state run media for Republicans and Trump.

What really makes me shake my head is how Republicans are trying to downplay something, that if Obama or Clinton did, they'd be foaming at the mouth to use to damage either of them and calling them traitors and un-American.

Don't get me wrong; Democrats can be just as hypocritical and can downplay the bad things their politicians do (I've been guilty of it) but it seems like it's been taken to a whole new level with Trump. Things that he does get defended that if other Presidents (Democrat or Republican) had done would have cost them a lot of support on both sides of the aisle. Trump really has created a cult of personality that blinds his followers to accepting that anything he does is great and that any attack against him is just sour grapes and that's truly frightening.
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#29 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:44 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 15 May 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

So you'd want him to face charges, but there would be none? Would that disappoint you then? Or not?

Also, just because something is legal, doesn't mean it is acceptable behaviour. It is currently legal to cheat on one's spouse, that doesn't mean the spouse has to accept the behaviour. Just like U.S. allies do not have to accept this behaviour. They can decide to either stop, or at least curtail, the amount of intel they share with the U.S. They shared it under a mutual understanding that the new POTUS does not respect.

Would I want him to face charges, IF a crime was committed? Yes. Nobody is above the law, not even the President. Do I think such charges would ever be brought, "No, I don't."
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#30 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:50 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 16 May 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

So now that 45 has dealt with and admitted the "IF IT'S TRUE" question, I wonder how that fact will settle in with those Fox watchers and 45 apologists? And what I can't understand, even if you believe that the POTUS has the "right" to declassify top secret information, what gives him the right to pass it on directly to agents of an adversarial foreign state? And if this info is now declassified by his de facto action, can anyone petition/file to have it publicly released under the Freedom Of Information Act? I mean thank the gods that the Washington Post has shown restraint, but what's to stop Buzzfeed  or Breitbart from getting it and plastering it all over the internet?

THAT is a good question, and one I would like to know the answer to. If he declassified it, then I would really like to know EXACTLY what intel was shared. Knowing what intel was actually shared would shed a lot of light on this whole story.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#31 yadda yadda

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 03:48 PM

Even trying to give benefit of the doubt to NSA H.R. McMaster, based upon his reputation for credibility and integrity, his story has holes that his assertions do not cover over. McMaster states that the only three people in the Oval Office besides the two Russians, their asset, and the Tass photographer were Sec. State Tiilerson, NSA Deputy Dina Powell, and McMaster himself. McMaster stated that the three witnesses just accounted for agree with McMaster's assessment that 45's communication with the Russians was "wholly appropriate", and besides that 45 had not even been briefed on the code- name classified intel, so how could he know?

For this to be true, how did Thomas Bossert, Advisor for Homeland Security, become alarmed enough to call the CIA and NSA to apprise them that the Great Pumpkin had revealed classified information about this closely kept secret file? Who told him? 45? McMaster or his two agreeable witnesses? Lazarov or Kislyak? The Tass photographer?  McMaster claims he hasn't talked to Bossert, can't imagine why he'd place these warning calls to intel agencies except maybe as an " over abundance of caution? Caution about what? What was he told or somehow overheard? Who could have told him? Did he read a post meeting transcript of the conversations? Why were the White House inner office memos of the meeting's conversations erased, as reported? Or do they still exist, does a transcript? That would seemingly clear the air about what 45 said, and allow a cross section of bi- partisan Congessional members or intel officials  other than McMaster, Tillerson, and Powell the opportunity to decide whether it was "wholly appropriate" or not. Credibility is a terrible thing to waste, General McMaster. Especially on behalf of a self-serving POS like 45.

Edited by yadda yadda, 16 May 2017 - 03:55 PM.


#32 gsmonks

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:49 PM

In terms of undoing evil-doers, Trump is the gift that keeps on giving. An intelligent evil-doer wouldn't've threatened Comey. A criminal mastermind wouldn't've called Comey into his office and tried to subvert his moral standing.

For a person who claims to be a brilliant judge of character, Twitler has a very low batting average.

Funny how the mouth that facilitated his rise to power is the same that will lead to his impeachment, leaving behind better safeguards in his wake that should prevent people like himself from abusing the office again.

That is, unless the GOP, as a body, closes ranks and allows the slide into the abyss to continue.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#33 yadda yadda

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:08 PM

^ Yes, a very weak judge of character. But when you buy loyalty or demand it by brute force rather than earning it, things are bound to get dicey. It makes one wonder, but I think after pressure is applied to his stalwart former lieutenants Flynn and Manafort and they trill like beautiful and revealing full-throated song birds, that 45 may take notes. And after adding that research to his own hard knocks / hands on experience in federal prison, maybe he'll come out with a sequel..." The Art of the Squeal".

#34 gsmonks

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:12 AM

The dark horse in this story is Pence, who unlike Twitler has far more to lose in the political sense. He has tied himself to a situation that in the end will force him to reassert his credibility. Situations like that turn men into deluded fools who think they're heroes, hapless victims who are along only for the ride, or monsters who wrest control, transforming democracy into tyranny in the process.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#35 cade

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:16 AM

As Jeremy Scahill said on Twitter today, "Mike Pence would be like if Dick Cheney merged with Jerry Falwell and became president." He's even worse than Trump on almost every policy issue, and far more capable of pushing his agenda through Congress and the courts, but for the same reason I preferred Cruz to Trump, at least Pence is mentally stable. He wouldn't start a nuclear war because someone hurt his feelings, but with Trump I think there's about a 20% chance he will. As he freely admitted in 2014:

"When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I'm basically the same. The temperament is not that different."

http://www.cnn.com/2...apons-dantonio/

Edited by cade, 17 May 2017 - 10:18 AM.


#36 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

So apparently now Comey is leaking a memo he supposedly wrote after his meeting with President Trump, in which he says the President tried to interfere with the FBI investigation into Flynn. First things first: I don't doubt Comey wrote a memo about this, I just don't know WHEN he wrote it. He could've written it after being fired for all we know. Hell, I could write a memo dated October 10, 2024...Doesn't mean I wrote it on that date. Second, and more importantly: For arguments sake, say he did write it after meeting with the President, and say this proves obstruction of justice. By not reporting the obstruction right away Comey has now opened himself up to criminal charges himself, and probably a nice jail cell complete with his very own Bubba cellmate.

If the memo proves nothing, as it is looking more and more like, then Comey comes across as nothing but a disgruntled fired employee...one step away from those ex employees that come back and shoot up their former place of employment. Either way, not very good for Comey.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#37 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:43 PM

;)

#38 Cait

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:05 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 17 May 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

So apparently now Comey is leaking a memo he supposedly wrote after his meeting with President Trump, in which he says the President tried to interfere with the FBI investigation into Flynn. First things first: I don't doubt Comey wrote a memo about this, I just don't know WHEN he wrote it.

You apparently know nothing about bureaucrats.  Comey circulated the memo right after the meeting.  What it establishes is a chain of evidence, and when it was written.  Others have already spoken about Comey's habit of doing exactly what he did in this case.  Think of it like police notes.  it refreshes the memory of someone if trial or depositions occur years later.  They are indeed considered "evidence".  But, Comey went one step further, he circulated it.  Each of the others is a witness to establish "the time it was written".

Quote

He could've written it after being fired for all we know. Hell, I could write a memo dated October 10, 2024...Doesn't mean I wrote it on that date.  

Learn to think LotS.  Really learn to take something apart and think about the components, instead of jumping to the conclusion that "he can't prove when he wrote it.  He's a former prosecutor, the former AAG under Bush 43, and the former Director of the FBI, do you think he doesn't know how to build a case of evidence?  Really?

He's the guy that produced a similar memo when he was testifying before Congress about the torture memos.  This is his MO.  he documents things.  He documents them to build a case, or just to refresh his memory if he gets asked a question by say, oh Congress, years after the fact.  I read somewhere that Comey has ALL the FBI do it now.

Quote

Second, and more importantly: For arguments sake, say he did write it after meeting with the President, and say this proves obstruction of justice. By not reporting the obstruction right away Comey has now opened himself up to criminal charges himself, and probably a nice jail cell complete with his very own Bubba cellmate.

You really have no idea how a case is built do you?  You collect evidence.  You pull strings.  You document events.  You painstakingly build a case that will stick.  Comey is a lawyer, and a former prosecutor, he knows how to make a case stick.

The better question is why are you deflecting this all back on Comey?  How Trump-like of you.  You're not looking at what #45 did, but how Comey reacted to what he did.  How convenient for you cognitive dissonance.

Quote

If the memo proves nothing, as it is looking more and more like, then Comey comes across as nothing but a disgruntled fired employee...one step away from those ex employees that come back and shoot up their former place of employment. Either way, not very good for Comey.

It means nothing to you.  But, you think it is fabricated, and even if it is true, Comey should be prosecuted for keeping it a secret.  It means a lot to people who can still discern reality from the #45 delusion.

Comey kept the memo from getting to any FBI investigators of the Russia/#45 investigation so they wouldn't be biased.  he wanted them to look at facts and not be distracted by internal politics in the WH.  Investigations that were important to the country btw.  Like I said, he knows how to build a case, and run an investigation.  he knows how to keep his mouth shut, and he also knows when to speak up.  And, when he speaks up, he has a lot of evidence to back his testimony up.  It's not a he said/he said.

A lot of people [Dems and Repubs] have no idea who James Comey is.  They take partisan stands and never really look at the life of a man.  There's a reason why the Acting Director said that the FBI rank and file had the utmost respect for Comey.  There's a reason why the FBI will push forward these investigations.  He is considered by insider and outsiders to be a man of integrity.  If anything, he is a bit [read a lot] egotistical about his integrity, but as a voter, I can handle that kind of ego any day of the week.  

He isn't lying.  he didn't fabricate any memo.  Congress may in fact do nothing about this, but that's on them, NOT Jim Comey.  He did his job.  he has always done his job.

And, this was the miscalculation of #45 when he fired Comey--he thought Democrats like me would applaud the firing because of Hillary.  That's why he used that as the initial reasoning.  He figured, Demos would be so happy they wouldn't care about the optics of it.  He guessed wrong.

Comey is a white hat, and you better get used to the fact that his ego won't let him be partisan while doing his job.  But, I'd rather have him do his job [even if I don't like the results] that be nothing but a weasley partisan hack.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#39 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

What a wonderful world we live in. Now Vlad Putin has stepped up in defense of his favorite bought and paid for puppet US President by saying that 45 had not passed any classified info to Russia in last week's Oval Office spy summit. In fact, Putin joked that if Foreign Minister Lazarov had failed to pass on any gleaned state secrets that Putin would be disappointed and have to reprimand Lazarov. LOL! :) And then Putin offered to provide Congress with the Russian transcript of the meeting's conversations.

This is so very helpful. And goes to show that Putin has more credibility than National Security Advisor McMaster who refused to discuss or reveal the classification aspect of 45's meeting conversation and offered no transcript of the event. It's comforting to know that our presidency is in such gentle, helping, and calming hands. Dance puppet, dance! 45 may be the first to go from b*llsh*t by day to the Bolshoi Ballet.

Edited by yadda yadda, 17 May 2017 - 02:26 PM.


#40 cade

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:40 PM

The main tactic I'm seeing from Trump supporters is to blame the media for even reporting the story, saying the intel, sources and methods wouldn't otherwise have been at risk of exposure. Putting aside the question of why they're so trusting of Putin's regime, it's true that this leak to the media is criminal and may well get people killed. We've heard reports before of how Trump's own allies and close employees leak things to the media just to get his attention when he continues to ignore their private advice. Erick Erickson is reporting that this was another such cry for help. I don't really trust Erickson, but what he's saying here fits perfectly with what we've seen of Trump and his administration so far.

"You can call these sources disloyal, traitors, or whatever you want. But please ask yourself a question — if the President, through inexperience and ignorance, is jeopardizing our national security and will not take advice or corrective action, what other means are available to get the President to listen and recognize the error of his ways?

This is a real problem and I treat this story very seriously because I know just how credible, competent, and serious — as well as seriously pro-Trump, at least one of the sources is."




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