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POTUS 2017: pre-impeachment/resignation discussion

Comey obstruction memos Intel drop to Russia

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#1 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:06 PM

I think it's time to start a thread on the quickly coalescing events and revelations that seem as harbingers of president 45's eventual removal from office. Granted, he's shown an unbelievable ability to shed and survive public humiliation and controversy that would have destroyed any other public figure many months ago. But I feel that with events of this past week, the net is drawing closer and more tightly around 45, and that the tipping point is past for the expectation or hope that his presidency may survive. Already there is one Republican congressman calling for 45's impeachment, in addition to a chorus of Democrats taking up the chant. Today we have a link from FOX NEWS, repeating an editorial from The Wall Street Journal, owned by fervent 45 friend and backer Rupert Murdoch, titled "Loose Lips Sink Presidencies". Can the end be too far away from now?

https://www.wsj.com/...cies-1494977056


Just in the past week we've seen 45 fire James Comey, then admit on tv that he was thinking about Comey's purview, the Russia-Trump thing as he decided to let him go. Then we have incriminatory reports of 45 demanding Comey's loyalty as a requirement of continued employment. Then another count that 45 urged Comey to drop the investigation of 45's just fired NSA, Gen. Mike Flynn because he was a "good guy". I believe these will turn out after further investigation and confirmation to be the predicates for articles of impeachment for criminal obstruction of justice as even his stone cold staunch Republican enablers in Congress begin to thaw from the incredible heat and public light generated by these revelations.



I believe this president's days in office are now numbered, many less than the full 1460 granted by a full term. Impeachment or resignation...which outcome has the better odds??


ETA: I'm not able to access the link I put up to Fox News. It kicks me over to some spam thing about winning prizes from Google. So I'd advise not opening it just in case there's something "phishy" about it. Should've known better than to link to Fox. :( Update---I changed the link from Fox to the WSJ's original editorial....which unfortunately wants you to subscribe to read it in its entirety. If you search the link title there are other sites that disclose most of the editorial's main content. I suggest Mediaite or CNN.

Edited by yadda yadda, 17 May 2017 - 06:45 PM.


#2 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

Now we have the first Republican Senator, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, to state that a special prosecutor or independent commission is needed to investigate Russia-Trump-FBI interrelated goings on. The first breaking of ice presaging an avalanche. Look out below!

#3 Cait

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

If public opinion stays as negative as it's been, Republicans will welcome a commission.  Why?  Because they can spin that come election time in 2018.  They can spin it either way in fact.  if they delay, or fail to act, they own the consequences.  Much easier to turn it over to a commission and wash their hands of it all.

They are holding on the get their legislative agenda passed [if possible] and to keep their base happy for as long as possible.  It's nice to know that the law, competence, and national security don't factor into their decisions.  I feel so much better now.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#4 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:55 PM

^ I agree that an independent commission would be the least effective route, with the politically salving benefits for Republicans that you've laid out. Which is probably why there are now seven Republican Congressional Reps endorsing it, plus Rep. Amash from Wisconsin who thought impeachment a valid path if the Comey memo plays out true. The seven Republican Representatives are Curbelo from Florida, Comstock from Virginia, Coffman from Colorado, Paulson from Minnesota, and Issa, Knight, and McClintock from California, all in electorally vulnerable districts won by HRC in 2016. In addition to Sen. Murkowski, in favor of a Special Prosecutor or Independent Commission, Senators Collins, Graham, Heller, and McCain have spoken in favor of a commission.

Appointing a Special Prosecutor would be better and a clearer path to the truth, and is the choice and responsibility for appointment by Dep. Atty. General Rosenstein. I'm hopeful that pressure can be brought to bear politically and by evolving events (Comey's open Congressional testimony) and subsequent disclosures to open his mind to this investigative avenue.

I think all sorts of pressures will start to press on the recalcitrant, calcified by partisanship Republican Congress. Testimony and disclosure of evidence against 45, a continual drop in and bottoming out of support for and confidence in this administration, the seemingly never ending series of presidential gaffes, unwitting confessions to ethical missteps and potential crimes. All these pressures will fall on Congress and they will transfer that pressure and call for intense scrutiny onto 45. Impeachment, I'd predict a pretty good chance even if it  has to wait for a 2018 change in Congressional party control. But I think that political and investigative pressure and ego crushing assault through mockery and disdain will get to 45 and prompt his resignation before the 2018 midterm, maybe even much sooner.

ETA: Add Illinois Republican House Member Adam Kinzinger to the list endorsing a Special Prosecutor or Independent Commission.

Edited by yadda yadda, 17 May 2017 - 05:09 PM.


#5 yadda yadda

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:23 PM

Well, hallelujah! That didn't take long. Ask and ye shall receive!  Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein has just appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as Special Prosecutor for investigation into Russia and our 2016 election! Have at it Bob! Give it your best shot. A shot of unvarnished truth for once. Next stop, Impeachment! All aboard! :)

ETA: Special Counsel, Special Prosecutor, I've heard it reported both ways. Not sure of the difference yet.

ETA again...evidently Special Counsel is what they nowadays call a Special Prosecutor. The Special Counsel reports to and is under the Deputy Atty General. I think he's independent, but as we all know if 45 can fire the FBI Director, I'd assume that the AG and DAG serve at POTUS's pleasure as well. Not sure how much insulation of true independence there is. After all, Nixon told his AG and DAG to fire his Watergate Special Prosecutor and they refused, resigning in protest instead. Then he appointed Bork, a stooge AG to fire Cox, the SP. Didn't help him in the end though...he resigned in disgrace. Deja vu time? :)

Edited by yadda yadda, 17 May 2017 - 06:15 PM.


#6 Cait

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

Well, thank the goddess....

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#7 sierraleone

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:54 PM

There were 10 Presidents who served less than one term. They either a former VP who had stepped in to finish their President's term, they were Assassinated, or they Died:
John Taylor/VP (Served as President 1,430 days), Andrew Johnson/VP (1,419), Chester A. Arthur/VP (1,262), John F Kennedy/A (1,036), Millard Fillmore/VP (969), Gerald Ford/VP (895), Warren Harding/D (881), Zachary Taylor/D (492), James Garfield/A (199), and William Henry Harrison/D (31).

The "ignoble" Presidents, that had been, or were facing, impeachment hearings: Clinton was impeached by the House ~2 years into his 2nd term (and acquitted by the Senate) and finished his 2 terms, while Nixon had resigned 1.5 years into this 2nd term to avoid impeachment hearings.

Trump has already outlasted poor William Harrison. Any bets on how many he'll out last on the short elected Presidencies? Or if he'll end up with less consequences for his behaviours than Nixon or Clinton?

Edited by sierraleone, 17 May 2017 - 10:57 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#8 yadda yadda

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:10 AM

I'd say he'll come in between Garfield and Taylor, doubtful he'll serve a full year, at least in office. Maybe he'll serve ten to fifteen in an orange jumpsuit after his presidency. And his curtain call may be a joyous holiday gift to the nation, except for that fervent MAGA contingent so dedicated to a supremely white Christmas.

#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:23 AM

 yadda yadda, on 17 May 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

Well, hallelujah! That didn't take long. Ask and ye shall receive!  Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein has just appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as Special Prosecutor for investigation into Russia and our 2016 election! Have at it Bob! Give it your best shot. A shot of unvarnished truth for once. Next stop, Impeachment! All aboard! :)

ETA: Special Counsel, Special Prosecutor, I've heard it reported both ways. Not sure of the difference yet.

ETA again...evidently Special Counsel is what they nowadays call a Special Prosecutor. The Special Counsel reports to and is under the Deputy Atty General. I think he's independent, but as we all know if 45 can fire the FBI Director, I'd assume that the AG and DAG serve at POTUS's pleasure as well. Not sure how much insulation of true independence there is. After all, Nixon told his AG and DAG to fire his Watergate Special Prosecutor and they refused, resigning in protest instead. Then he appointed Bork, a stooge AG to fire Cox, the SP. Didn't help him in the end though...he resigned in disgrace. Deja vu time? :)

So if the Special Prosecutor finds wrong doing, President Trump gets impeached. That's one possible outcome.

OTOH, if the special prosecutor finds no wrong doing, no Russian collusion, the Democrats and the Fake News media is done. The Fake News networks, like CNN and MSNBC, have been pushing this alledged Russian collusion conspiracy as if it were fact. If the special prosecutor proves that wasn't the case, they will loose ALL credibilty. Same with the Democrats.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#10 gsmonks

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:12 AM

Said the Trump surrogate.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#11 sierraleone

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:42 AM

 Lord of the Sword, on 18 May 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

So if the Special Prosecutor finds wrong doing, President Trump gets impeached. That's one possible outcome.

OTOH, if the special prosecutor finds no wrong doing, no Russian collusion, the Democrats and the Fake News media is done. The Fake News networks, like CNN and MSNBC, have been pushing this alledged Russian collusion conspiracy as if it were fact. If the special prosecutor proves that wasn't the case, they will loose ALL credibilty. Same with the Democrats.

There are other options besides them finding wrong doing (collusion between Russian and Trump), or not. Journalists have been going where the facts uncovered during their investigation journalism take them, and they report on the pieces of the puzzle as they find it. Even if Trump specifically hasn't (or can't be proven) to have colluded with Russia doesn't mean all their reporting is false news.

If one, or a significant portion of one, of the U.S. branches of government (or the fourth estate) lose nearly all credibility, it is a tragic blow to the U.S. republic. Hopefully not a fatal one, as it has already happened to the executive branch.

Edited by sierraleone, 18 May 2017 - 05:32 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#12 cade

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:04 PM

If Nixon had Fox News, pervasive right-wing talk radio and a Republican Congress, I think he would've finished his second term. Nixon had to cede to reality in ways that Trump doesn't even have to contemplate. He just creates his own realities, often totally conflicting ones, traverses them at will and has a massive propaganda machine selling his lies and misrepresenting reality as fake news. It doesn't even phase his supporters that he sends surrogates and even his own VP out to lie for him and then totally contradicts them the very next day. Of course it wouldn't phase them, since Trump routinely contradicted himself throughout the campaign and often in the same sentence and yet they kept saying they love how he just "tells it like it is." How do we possibly break through this level of indoctrination?

No doubt many Republicans in Congress are asking themselves the same question. They want Pence to take over but they can't turn on Trump when their voting base is lapping up fake news and whipped up into hysteria over how "persecuted" Trump is. As many others have pointed out, this is the monster they created.

#13 yadda yadda

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:26 PM

 Lord of the Sword, on 18 May 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

 yadda yadda, on 17 May 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

Well, hallelujah! That didn't take long. Ask and ye shall receive!  Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein has just appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as Special Prosecutor for investigation into Russia and our 2016 election! Have at it Bob! Give it your best shot. A shot of unvarnished truth for once. Next stop, Impeachment! All aboard! :)

ETA: Special Counsel, Special Prosecutor, I've heard it reported both ways. Not sure of the difference yet.

ETA again...evidently Special Counsel is what they nowadays call a Special Prosecutor. The Special Counsel reports to and is under the Deputy Atty General. I think he's independent, but as we all know if 45 can fire the FBI Director, I'd assume that the AG and DAG serve at POTUS's pleasure as well. Not sure how much insulation of true independence there is. After all, Nixon told his AG and DAG to fire his Watergate Special Prosecutor and they refused, resigning in protest instead. Then he appointed Bork, a stooge AG to fire Cox, the SP. Didn't help him in the end though...he resigned in disgrace. Deja vu time? :)

So if the Special Prosecutor finds wrong doing, President Trump gets impeached. That's one possible outcome.

OTOH, if the special prosecutor finds no wrong doing, no Russian collusion, the Democrats and the Fake News media is done. The Fake News networks, like CNN and MSNBC, have been pushing this alledged Russian collusion conspiracy as if it were fact. If the special prosecutor proves that wasn't the case, they will loose ALL credibilty. Same with the Democrats.

LoTS, I've been basically ignoring you for the past two or three months. Blissfully, actually. Basically because I've decided carrying on a discussion with you is a waste of time. We don't share a common language or perspective of the world of reality. Your mindset seems to me to be averse to facts in the real world. Reason, logical development of thought, and rationality appear to be concepts foreign to you. For this reason I've erected a personal message board noise wall to keep out your distractions. It has been equally effective for me to the noise walls in common use on America's and the world's roads and expressways, in neighborhoods and retail centers....you know, the ones that you stubbornly deny existence of as being impossible to construct due to the inherent physical properties of material, its placement, and the physics of sound propagation. After my reply to you here I fully expect to close the gate on my sound wall to you again, as your further thoughts carry no import for me. I'm going to pick apart your "argument" to demonstrate your skewed and faulty excuse for reasoning  just for old times sake.

First off, you assert that "if the Special Prosecutor finds wrong doing, President Trump gets impeached. That's one possible outcome." Your OTOH contingency supposes, in your logic-less narrow focused binary thought process, that no wrong doing--Dems and FAKE NEWS media are done, and "loose" all credibility. By the way, it's "lose" all credibility, not "loose". To lose is to be deprived of something or someone, be misplaced or have it go missing. Or alternately as the antonym for win. "Loose" is the antonym of tight. As in some rappers wear loose fitting pants that fall down and reveal their buttocks. Or to indicate a variance from precision or established standards of reality, as in LoTS and his mentor entity FOX are loose in their presentation of factual argument or evidence. Vocabulary/grammar lesson over, free of charge.

There are many alternative possible outcomes to Special Prosector finds wrong doing than just Trump gets impeached, the only one you stipulated. Mueller could find wrong doing by Flynn, Manafort, Page, Sessions, Kushner, Pence, WH Counsel McGahn, and a host of other flunkies and stooges. He'd could find evidence of collusion by any or all of them and still report that Trump was a dupe, too stupid to participate in collusion...just a figurehead for illegality, corruption and treason. Trump could avoid impeachment that way, maybe limp on in a crippled Presidency until he resigned in utter disgrace like Nixon or hang on till his term was up like a political eunuch.

Special Counsel Mueller could find and report conclusive evidence of Trump's involvement and foreknowledge of these same crimes and Trump could still avoid impeachment and banishment from the WH if the gutless partisan Republican House members refuse to bring articles of impeachment or the Republican Senate failed to convict. That would be political party suicide, but it could happen.

But regarding your bold claim that an exoneration of Trump would be the undoing of the Dems and FAKE NEWS media, and a loss of all credibility. Loss of credibility with whom? You and your brainwashed brethren extend zero credibility in Dems or the FAKE NEWS as it is. That's why y'all have been conditioned by your Orange Messiah to call it FAKE NEWS. How can FAKE NEWS lose or loose credibility to you? You and your fellow lemmings already count it as being not credible. Your credulity has been strained, overtaxed, and ultimately fully disgusted by the FAKE NEWS. As your fearless leader said to black America, " what do you have to lose/loose?" It's all gone already.

Unless you're speaking for everyone else like me and most others on this board and out in Libtard America? You're predicting that the FAKE MEDIA in your mind is going to be less credible to us than what we consider a mostly objective reporting source we listen to with a few grains of salt and critical thinking and discernment instead of absorbing poorly dressed propaganda as if it was truth from on high like you Foxies do? Think about it if on the off chance there are still a couple or three unbrainwashed cells bouncing around in your head. Would YOU find your right wing sources that defend Trump like he was Jesus himself less credible or having lost all credibility if they were proven wrong by the Special Counsel's indictment of Trump for collusion or corruption leading to his impeachment? Would you? Or would you keep on listening to their music to your ears, that hateful heat and blame stream that keeps you warm at night like your old special security blankie from your baby days? I think we know the answer. Right-wing propaganda is like the nicotine in your cigarettes or your chaw that you can't quit. Or the caffeine in your soda pop. It will always be credible to you. Keeping you comfy and stabilized in this topsy-turvy world full of Liberal Elites harshing your mellow.

Okay, time to close up the gate again in my cyber noise wall. Do your damnedest. I can't hear you. Have a nice day.  :)

Edited by yadda yadda, 18 May 2017 - 05:34 PM.


#14 Elara

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:45 PM

45's followers always find a way around the crazy, because 45 manages to explain things. As Scott Sharkey said on Twitter:

Quote

Scott Sharkey‏ @evilsharkey

WaPo: The president sh*t himself.

White House: The president would never sh*t himself.

Trump: I SH*T MYSELF ON PURPOSE

Every. F**king. Day.

Edited by Elara, 18 May 2017 - 08:39 PM.

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~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#15 yadda yadda

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:36 PM

There is another late report tonight from the NY Times by the same reporter who gave us the Comey memo story about 45 asking then then FBI Director to back off and let go of the Mike Flynn investigation. This story just broke within the hour on the Rachel Maddow Show at 6:00 PM my time in California, 9 PM EDT, and is on the NY Times website.

This story concerns 45 calling up Comey and asking him when he might be getting around to having federal authorities announce or release information to the effect that he the POTUS was not under personal investigation in the Russia-45 campaign collusion case. Apparently in another Comey written, detailed memo, the recently fired FBI Director told the president that he should not be calling him directly to ask about or discuss such matters, that is was inappropriate and he should have his White House Counsel contact the DOJ as to any questions he might want to ask.

A friend of Comey, a Mr. Wittes, spoke on the record for the NY Times and said that Comey had told him during a lunch meeting that he had gotten these persistent inquiring calls from both 45 and one from WH Chief of Staff Priebus asking Comey to put out statements to the press rebutting stories about 45 administration associates being in contact with Russian officials and those with Kremlin ties.. Comey was said to be disgusted by Reince Priebus' heavy-handed attempts at influence and 45's apparent lack of understanding about what was inappropriate direct contact with him or his office. That harkens back to when Priebus went on a Sunday show in February and swore he had spoken with the highest levels of the intelligence community ( Comey and Deputy FBI Director McCabe) and was told that the NY Times stories about the Trump campaign contact with Russians was complete garbage, totally untrue. Interesting that as of today's reporting by Reuters, there were 18 unreported contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia when Pence and everybody else swore there were none at all. These contacts, prior to 45's inauguration, were reportedly initiated with the aim of setting up back channels between 45 and Putin that circumvented established national security State Dept. protocols and guidelines.

It leads one to wonder if these phone calls by 45 asking Comey to go to bat for him, and announce 45 clear of investigation, plus the "loyalty oath" dinner request were what in 45's delusional head made up the supposed three times he "remembered" Comey telling him he was not under personal investigation. In any case just a few more logs on the fire to keep it burning bright and casting light on the activities and ongoing lies of these crooked sons of b*tch*s.

Edited by yadda yadda, 18 May 2017 - 10:16 PM.


#16 Cait

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:08 PM

For anyone wondering who Comey is, or who Mueller is, read this article.  It is a little long, but you'll feel much better about the future once you know that these two men are handling this crisis.  

http://www.politico....ller-fbi-215154

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#17 Omega

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:11 PM

Trump will go. The problem is, he won't go quietly, and neither will his supporters.

#18 yadda yadda

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:20 PM

^ That's why there are noise walls. :) And moats with alligators, razor wire, and baseball bats.

#19 yadda yadda

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:39 PM

View PostCait, on 18 May 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

For anyone wondering who Comey is, or who Mueller is, read this article.  It is a little long, but you'll feel much better about the future once you know that these two men are handling this crisis.  

http://www.politico....ller-fbi-215154

Wow, what a fantastic read! Looks like we've got just the man for the job. Fair winds to your back, Special Counsel Mueller. Go to bat for your country once more.

Edited by yadda yadda, 18 May 2017 - 10:40 PM.


#20 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:12 AM

Since everyone is swearing by Comey dutifully writing memos, I would love to see the memos he wrote after meetings with AG lynch, after she met privately with the spouse of a person she was "Supposedly" investigating. Those memos would be very interesting.

Of course the Democrats will never let THOSE memos see the light of day.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.




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