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President Trump's first overseas trip as President


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#41 sierraleone

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:39 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 May 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

I understand where you're coming from, on this issue. I don't know that I agree, completely, with it though. IMO, the terrorist's really don't care what we label them. IMO, any label, even "losers" is a badge of honor to them.

Thank you for listening, and understanding.

I don't care about the terrorist here. The President, by saying the first thing that comes to his mind here (and elsewhere), is debasing himself, debasing the office, and debasing civil discourse.

If the President had said that in a moment of regular human vulnerability / "weakness" (such he got caught in the choke of tears or anger) I wouldn't have minded nearly so much, as it just shows how he was affected by it. But I watched his remarks (in the same video I linked in my previous post), he does not appear moved by events. From what I recall it was a very measured, dry, unemotional, response (though maybe it just seems that way anytime he is on a teleprompter because it contrasts so much with his usual style). So, it seems he was, just by reflect, using his stand-by, school-yard-taunts.

Quote

I would rather find a way to refer to them similar to a flash flood warning from the weather man. Not to many really pay attention to those warnings, in my experience. And those flash flood warnings are usually forgotten almost as soon as they are heard. Now how someone can refer to a suicide bomber like a flash flood warning, without really glorifying them? I don't know.

We change their name (how's dry rot?), and eventually we either turn callous, and/or we start responding to the new term as we did the old one. If we did, whatever the new term/label is should be one we choose for us, not for them.

Edited by sierraleone, 23 May 2017 - 07:34 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#42 Elara

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:35 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 May 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

Oh I do have concerns regarding the sheer number of EO's President Trump has issued. A number of those, I believe, were to reverse Obama's garbage orders, so on those EO's I'll give Trump a pass. Since I think only a EO can overturn a prior President's EO. But you're correct, President Trump is issuing a lot of EO's...way too many, IMO.

I don't agree about all of Obama's EO's being bad, but some were lacking.
For me, it feels as though 45 believes that all he has to do is write an EO and get whatever he wants, but it doesn't quite work that way, and shouldn't. We have checks and balances for a reason. What worries me is that his whipping out EO's like they are gumballs falling out of a broken gumball machine, is that this opens things up for the next president, and the next, and so on. I feel that this will lead to chaos.


View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 May 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

fair enough.

Thank you.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#43 Elara

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:47 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 23 May 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 23 May 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

I would rather find a way to refer to them similar to a flash flood warning from the weather man. Not to many really pay attention to those warnings, in my experience. And those flash flood warnings are usually forgotten almost as soon as they are heard. Now how someone can refer to a suicide bomber like a flash flood warning, without really glorifying them? I don't know.

We change their name (how's dry rot?), and eventually we either turn callous, and/or we start responding to the new term as we did the old one. If we did, whatever the new term/label is should be one we choose for us, not for them.

Yep. Unfortunately changing what we call them won't work, but if we are going to give them a name to annoy/demean them, let's call them floating, pink bubbles. Though I much prefer we simply call the what they are: Murderers. Not terrorists, not suicide bombers, not rebels, etc... they are murderers.

I can't say that I know of anyone who ignores a flash flood warning, but do agree that some will, which is simply foolishness.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#44 sierraleone

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 06:28 PM

WaPo: Following Trump's trip, Merkel says Europe can't rely on 'others'. She means the U.S.

Quote

But many European leaders emerged from their meetings with Trump filled with fresh worry. Trump was far more solicitous toward the autocratic king of Saudi Arabia earlier in the week, telling him and other leaders of Muslim-majority countries – many of them not democratically elected – that he was not “here to lecture.” Days later in Brussels he offered a scathing assessment of Washington’s closest allies, saying they were being “unfair” to American taxpayers.

“Trump is creating the biggest transatlantic rift since the Iraq war, perhaps even since WWII,” he said. “This leaves the U.S. exposed. If the Iran nuclear accord flounders, for example, Europe may well not end up on Trump’s side of a dangerous crisis.”

The conservative Trump critic William Kristol, who edits The Weekly Standard magazine, wrote on Twitter: “Merkel's comments today are a reminder that Trump’s failures are, while he’s president, also America’s failure, and damage America.”

Yep, the trip was a resounding success.

Well, at least the U.S.'s closest autocrat allies are saying it is.

The only democratic allies that will be reliably playing footsie with the U.S. after this is their closest trading partners who don't have a choice, and all bets of that are off once they start to renegotiate NAFTA.

Edited by sierraleone, 28 May 2017 - 06:34 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#45 sierraleone

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

Here is an article that goes more into the history behind our alliance with Germany since WW2.

https://www.theatlan...germany/528429/

Quote

Without the United States, German reunification would never have proceeded so smoothly or rapidly. That assistance is still gratefully remembered in Germany. But gratitude cuts only so much ice in international relations.
​…
Donald Trump is doing damage to the deepest and most broadly agreed foreign-policy interests of the United States.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:12 PM

^ Yes, a bigly Memorial Day slap in the face to the honorable families and a craven presidential spitting on the consecrated graves of our fallen American heroes laying in Flanders Fields, and those who paid the ultimate price on the Normandy and Omaha beaches, and at the Ardennes and Bastogne. 45's petulant refusal to honor and reaffirm the oath of shared allegiance to our European NATO allies shows his criminal ignorance of and complete lack of respect for the soldiers of the greatest generation whom we memorialize over today and tomorrow.

I'm sure he'll put up some superficial show for tomorrow's holiday commemoration,  a shallow and despicable mimicry of one who falsely and blithely will profess to care about such things, written for him by one of his erstwhile Nazi sympathizers. He'll probably compare the ultimate sacrifice of our nation's fallen soldiers to the pain of his own unparalleled travails of character assassination by his fake news enemies of America. Poor, poor, pitiful Donald. And yes, that's an apt description for this bloated, puffed up weasel. The long dead sad faces of America's fallen revile you in spirit, turn away and shun you from whatever valorous corner of the universe they now reside.

Edited by yadda yadda, 28 May 2017 - 08:26 PM.


#47 sierraleone

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:30 PM

And it is giving Putin exactly what he wants, a weaker, less united, NATO, and Europe.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#48 yadda yadda

yadda yadda
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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:32 PM

^ Just what the dictator ordered.

#49 sierraleone

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:52 PM

Wow. I was reading a WaPo opinion article, which referenced a politico article, which shows that it appears leaving out NATO's Article 5 from his NATO speech was NOT an oversight or unintentional admission.

He just didn't disappoint and surprise our NATO allies, also disappointing and surprised where his National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster, Defence Secretary James Mattis, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. They had, in the weeks leading up to the trip, made sure that reference to Article 5 was included in the speech. The day before the speech a WH aide had even said it was included. As late as the same morning of the speech those 3 people who ensured it was included in the speech had seen that the right speech was in place. No noticed it was being changed.

The whole thing about the adults in the room apparently is very misleading. His intentional leaving out Article 5 in his NATO speech, and his pulling out of the Paris Agreement clearly shows that. Here is a quote from the Politico article:

Quote

“Are these people going to steer Trump,” one former senior U.S. official asked, “or are they simply going to be made enablers?”

I don't think there is a 3rd option in the White House.

Same article, Mattis, at a Security Forum in Asia, was quoted thusly quoting another:

Quote

“To quote a British observer of us from some years back, bear with us,” Mattis told the questioner. “Once we have exhausted all possible alternatives, the Americans will do the right thing.”

Trump is incapable of this, and incapable of admitting wrong-doing. America will have to step the hell up.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


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