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Shooting in DC at Congressional baseball practice


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#1 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:44 AM

A man with a rifle and many rounds of ammunition opened fire early this morning on a group of Republican Congressmen, including two Senators at a ball field where they were practicing for a charity baseball game against Democratic Congressmen.

5 people were wounded after at least 50, perhaps more than a 100 shots were fired by the gunman, who was shot by police and is now in police custody. Rep. Steve Scalise (Louisiana), the House Majority Whip, was hit in the leg, two Capitol police officers and two Congressional staffers were also wounded by the gunfire. All are reportedly in stable condition after having been transported to area hospitals.

Statements by Senators Jeff Flake and Rand Paul suggested that rapid response by police (within 3 minutes) prevented a "possible massacre".

ETA: two of the victims are now listed as being in critical condition, not announced who they are.

Edited by yadda yadda, 14 June 2017 - 09:04 AM.


#2 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 11:20 AM

The shooter has died, according to reports. From what I read his name was James T. Hodgkinson, of Belleville, Illinois. According to his Facebook and other social media postings it has been reported that he was a Bernie Sanders supporter, a  professed "democratic socialist", who had expressed a desire online to destroy "traitor" Trump and Republicans in Congress. He also didn't like Hillary Clinton. And he also had a previous criminal record for battery.

Sad time for America when it comes to choosing gun violence to try and solve political differences. Let's hope this doesn't lead to copycats or retaliation by other gun nuts.

Edited by yadda yadda, 14 June 2017 - 11:32 AM.


#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

My thoughts and prayers are with the shooting victims, and their familes.

I had to turn off my TV, when the reporters started going into the shooter (I will NOT use his name) was a Bernie supporter. Because that is a major part of the problem in this country. Not who the shooter politically supported, but the sheer level of vicious partisan politics; where it is now the norm for taking photos of severed Presidential heads, or performing a play about assassinating President Trump, shooting a Congresswoman, like Gabby Giffords, in the head, or now trying to massacre as many Republicans at a Baseball practice.

Even President Trump, during his initial press announcement, seemed to avoid the politics of this. I specifically said "Initial" because even I, Trump supporter that I am, am not holding out hope that Trump will continue to keep politics out of this.

I get that the reporter at Fox was doing their job, in reporting that the shooter was a Bernie supporter, but they seemed (At least to me) to almost be implying that somehow Bernie was partially responsible. Which is just absurd, even for someone like me, who doesn't agree with Bernie's politics.

Anyway, as I said, my thoughts and prayers are with the victims.

Thank you Yadda, for keeping strictly to the facts being reported, and for not inserting politics into this tragedy.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#4 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:05 PM

^ Well I kinda did insert politics a little by identifying the perp and his reputed political leanings. But that was more to suggest a motive for his craziness than anything else. Bernie of course issued a statement condemning this man and violence in general.

I hate this kind of crap because now all sorts of nuts around the country go "yeah! That's the ticket! Wish I'd thought of it. Now I can go grab my 15 minutes of notoriety." I just hate seeing this happening to our country. The unreasoning hatred is like a virus.  :(

#5 G-man

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:10 PM

^^^

Unfortunately, when the ruling party chooses to ignore public opinion and isolate themselves from all save those who agree with them, this ought to be the expected result.  And now, instead of considering the outlandish notion that the guy was against what they were doing, he chooses to chalk the incident up as being the result of the opposition's rhetoric and is claiming that he will henceforth go around armed :facepalm-f7e:

Here's hoping that he'll have the decency to abide by the DC laws concerning personally owned firearms.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 14 June 2017 - 05:58 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
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#6 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:19 PM

^ Who is claiming that they'll henceforth go around armed in DC, G-man?

#7 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:49 PM

So now they're talking to Sen. Lankford of Oklahoma and a Rep. Boyle and they're telling the world that most people don't realize how little to no security at all Congresspersons go about their business with. Only Congressional leadership, like Rep. Scalise get a security detail they said. Well, good. :( Now a bunch more people than before know how vulnerable these politicians are as targets. Stupid.

And word just passed that Rep. Scalise who was shot in the hip and went through surgery is now listed in critical condition. My thoughts and vibes go out to him and his family that he make a full recovery and return to duty soon.

#8 G-man

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:32 PM

Quote

^ Who is claiming that they'll henceforth go around armed in DC, G-man?

My impression was that it was Scalise, but I only caught the sentiment in passing while perusing headlines ...

Ah ...

It was Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY):

Quote

Rep. Chris Collins, R-N.Y., who was not at the practice, told a Buffalo television station he has decided to carry his gun with him everywhere as a result of the shooting.

"I have a carry permit," he told WKBW. "On a rare occasion I’d have my gun in the glove box or something, but it’s going to be in my pocket from this day forward."

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 14 June 2017 - 05:22 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#9 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 03:07 PM

I remember Rep. Louie Gohmert (Texas) trying to pass a bill to allow Congress folks to open carry while on the floor of the House. I guess they're really serious about stopping filibusters.

#10 RJDiogenes

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:31 PM

And the Age of Extremism just gets better and better. The Lefties have an amazing talent for giving the Righties all the ammunition they need, and you can bet the Righties won't let anything like ethics or common decency get in the way of milking this for all it's worth.  I'm sure Trump's practically sane response will give his approval rating a bump.

A psycho gun nut for Bernie Sanders.  What a century. Next thing you know we'll have suicide bombers for the Dalai Lama or something.
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#11 sierraleone

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:51 PM

Here is, in my very limited reading on articles about this, the best article, IMO.

WaPo: I choose not to be outraged

Not what one might think considering the title. It is about perspective. General perspective, not about partisan perspective.

Edited by sierraleone, 14 June 2017 - 05:53 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#12 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:21 PM

Good article. I've been very impressed by Jennifer Rubin's common sense articles in WaPo of late. And she's conservative. Are my arteries hardening in my old age? Is my destiny to become a crusty old Fox viewer? Oh, the horror.  :)

#13 RJDiogenes

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:33 PM

There's an old saying, or a category of old sayings, along the lines of:  Anyone who is not a liberal in their youth has no heart, and anyone who is not conservative in their old age has no brain. Of course, what they're really talking about is the political spectrum. As an actual liberal, I'd rather die than be any sort of conservative, Left Wing or Right Wing.  :lol:
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#14 gsmonks

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:18 PM

I have to wince whenever I hear talk of this type of violence and nuttiness being something new for the US.

Being a child of the 50's, I remember all the bombings, the race riots, the extreme rhetoric on both sides, the kooks, the killers, whole cities burning, with rampant looting, pillaging, vandalism, continuous high-profile assassinations . . .

All of this seems to be long-forgotten. Ironically, at the time, this was also the case, as the last spate of violence had happened in the 20's and 30's, with strike-breaking, worker riots, Pinkerton goons murdering strikers, race riots after World War the First, cities burning, widespread looting, pillaging, burning, vandalism.

Back in the 50's, bombings were a regular event. And the goons were going after soft targets such as churches, murdering parishioners and children.

The reasons were eerily similar, and are cyclical. Back in the late 50's there was a very popular book about the Radical Right, that could have been written about both earlier periods and the Chicken Little administration. I remember watching the McCarthy Hearings with my father and grandfather and my granddad's brother. I remember blacks on the march with Martin Luther King Jr, expecting some Southern cracker law-enforcement goons to open fire on the crowds at any moment.

The point being that the US has a legacy of violence and civil unrest going back to its earliest days. Bombings, riots, mayhem, assassinations, looting, burning, vandalism . . . pick a century; any century: 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, and now the 21st.

The US also has a legacy of coming to its senses and improving itself after each period of unrest, addressing the underlying causes, making new laws, doing what it can to prevent future abuses.

There is always the fear, however, that a point of no return will one day be reached and crossed. At such times the question is always asked, "Will this be the time?"
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#15 sierraleone

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:45 AM

View PostG-man, on 14 June 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Quote

^ Who is claiming that they'll henceforth go around armed in DC, G-man?

It was Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY):

Quote

Rep. Chris Collins, R-N.Y., who was not at the practice, told a Buffalo television station he has decided to carry his gun with him everywhere as a result of the shooting.

"I have a carry permit," he told WKBW. "On a rare occasion I’d have my gun in the glove box or something, but it’s going to be in my pocket from this day forward."

Thats ridiculous to suggest it would have helped in this situation. How safely can one play baseball with a gun in their pocket? *Maybe* in a holster, but the day baseball players feel the need to carry guns to a practice or game will be a very sad marker on where the U.S. is as a country.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 08:26 AM

http://www.cnsnews.c...any-guns-street

And so the politics starts in full force.

Quote

"We lose 93 million [sic, 93 individual] Americans a day to gun violence," said the governor.

LMAO! Got to love it when politcians just make up their numbers as they go along. If that number was true, the entire country would be dead inside one week.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#17 yadda yadda

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:51 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 15 June 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

http://www.cnsnews.c...any-guns-street

And so the politics starts in full force.

Quote

"We lose 93 million [sic, 93 individual] Americans a day to gun violence," said the governor.

LMAO! Got to love it when politcians just make up their numbers as they go along. If that number was true, the entire country would be dead inside one week.

So you find a single politician misspeaking and then correcting himself immediately "making up numbers as they go along", and evidence that "the politics are starting in full force". I could as easily post links to inflammatory and scurrilous quotes from officials and news whores of your political stripe yesterday, considering the somber circumstances and bi- partisan calls for unity, bringing the politics out in full force. But I will not do so in deference to your previously stated and evidently abandoned desire for and appreciation of early in this thread for keeping the politics at a minimum.

Edited by yadda yadda, 15 June 2017 - 10:26 AM.


#18 Omega

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:02 AM

For context, I checked the "93 a day" number, and it looks valid if you include all gun deaths. Though 2/3 of US gun deaths are suicides, and it's arguable that even if you magically vanished all guns everywhere, the suicides would just move to another method.

Further points of interest I noticed: we have the highest rate of gun suicides of any country on earth, the 18th highest rate of gun homicides, the 11th highest rate of both accidental and general gun-caused deaths. But we also have the 94th highest homicide rate and the 48th highest suicide rate. At a glance, that implies that while our internal violence skews strongly towards the use of guns, our actual overall violence rate isn't so absurdly high as the gun-death rates alone would suggest. Lots of room for improvement, of course, but we're a long way from societal disintegration due to the homicide rate.

DC, in particular, is noteworthy. Fifteen years ago the DC homicide rate would have made it one of the fifty most violent cities on earth. It's dropped dramatically.

Edited by Omega, 15 June 2017 - 11:17 AM.


#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:06 AM

View Postyadda yadda, on 15 June 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

. But I will not do so in deference to your previously stated and evidently abandoned desire for and appreciation of early in this thread for keeping the politics at a minimum.


Well politics got harshly inserted into this thread with G-Man's post number 5, specifically:

Quote


Unfortunately, when the ruling party chooses to ignore public opinion and isolate themselves from all save those who agree with them, this ought to be the expected result.

I waited awhile, after reading that, before posting back in this thread. But after reading, from a moderator no less, that essentially: The shooter targeted only Republicans, it's to be expected. As if it was somehow ok, or the norm. That was when I realized that any attempt at civil debate on this issue would be futile.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#20 Omega

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:22 AM

There was no indication from G-Man that this was okay. Only that it's a reasonable expectation. Those are utterly different statements.


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