47 replies to this topic

[RJDiogenes]

Today, I found  the new logo at today at Sciffy.  It's fine, although I always resist changes to iconic elements.

I love that poster, though.  Check out the shoes.  

[Christopher]

 RJDiogenes, on 21 February 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

Today, I found  the new logo at today at Sciffy.  It's fine, although I always resist changes to iconic elements.

Uhh, you do know that the "iconic" Doctor Who logo has been redesigned a whole bunch of times before this, right?

[Norville]

*shrug* I was a Classic fan (Tom Baker is still My Doctor, but Pertwee and McCoy are up there, and Troughton would be higher if more of his stories survived), and NuWho has been weirdly annoying to me -- I didn't wholeheartedly become a fan until Capaldi, who's now another of My Doctors. I was, in fact, an anti-fan during RTD's time; I didn't enjoy Eccleston, and hated Tennant.

I'm all right with the concept of a female Doctor. I suppose Whittaker's a good actor; I can tell from what I've seen of Broadchurch that Chibnall obviously thinks she's good, so fine, okay, whatever. I thought Whittaker's short little intro, walking through a forest and smiling enigmatically, worked very well toward convincing me she could do it. But her regeneration scene has made me second guess her as a "manic pixie dream girl" with her manic grin, Tennant-like "Brilliant!", and a little too much being made of how bubbly and CUTE she is.

Her costume... that stupid costume has lost me, but I do keep telling myself that if I grew to like Colin Baker's Technicolor Nightmare Coat, I could deal with this impractical thing. (I bet Whittaker's finding filming in cold weather to be brrr with that low neckline and high cullotte legs.)

Then this poster with the logo and silhouette came out, and why does it look like Disney to me? Meh.

That's okay, though. I haven't really been the intended or desired audience for NuWho, except with Capaldi, and fandom and the media and even someone(s) in the BBC had such screechfits over how terrible he was because he wasn't Tennant that I'm just done with DW and its ever-nutty fandom. My Doctor died last Christmas. If the stupid SyFy Channel could be bothered to play The Expanse S3, that's what I'll be fannish over this year; I'll watch DW S11 after it comes out on DVD.

Edited by Norville, 21 February 2018 - 10:11 PM.

[Christopher]

 Norville, on 21 February 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

I suppose Whittaker's a good actor; I can tell from what I've seen of Broadchurch that Chibnall obviously thinks she's good, so fine, okay, whatever.

I've seen all of Broadchurch, and I think Whittaker is excellent in it. It takes a while, but her character develops qualities later on in the series that make me understand why Chibnall thought of her for the Doctor. At one point, she confronts a person who's a threat to the community and acts as the soft-spoken but relentless spokesperson for the community when they unite behind her to drive him out of town. In season 3, she becomes a social worker, someone who volunteers her time to help people in trouble. Add up those two roles, and you've basically got the Doctor's resume.

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I thought Whittaker's short little intro, walking through a forest and smiling enigmatically, worked very well toward convincing me she could do it. But her regeneration scene has made me second guess her as a "manic pixie dream girl" with her manic grin, Tennant-like "Brilliant!", and a little too much being made of how bubbly and CUTE she is.

I have no idea where you're getting any of that from. "Pixie?" "Bubbly and cute?" All we saw was the Doctor reacting with surprise and eventual delight that finally, after 2000 years, they get to find out what it's like to be a woman. I imagine the Doctor would've been just as delighted to finally be ginger. And it was just one moment of pleasure following several moments of uncertainty and preceding several more moments of terror and shock. Matt Smith's debut scene was enormously more "bubbly and cute" than this.

And how is "Oh, brilliant" Tennant-like? Tons of British people say "brilliant." It's just the British equivalent of "fantastic" or "awesome."

Between Torchwood, Law & Order UK, and Broadchurch, I can't think of a single Chibnall female lead who's anything like a "manic pixie dream girl." If anything, his female leads tend to be grounded, flawed, and textured.

[RJDiogenes]

 Norville, on 21 February 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

Her costume... that stupid costume has lost me, but I do keep telling myself that if I grew to like Colin Baker's Technicolor Nightmare Coat, I could deal with this impractical thing. (I bet Whittaker's finding filming in cold weather to be brrr with that low neckline and high cullotte legs.)  

Actually, it reminds me of Peter Davison a bit, but generally of the days when the Doctor wore colorful and quirky costumes instead of just street clothes.

[Virgil Vox]

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*shrug* I was a Classic fan (Tom Baker is still My Doctor, but Pertwee and McCoy are up there, and Troughton would be higher if more of his stories survived), and NuWho has been weirdly annoying to me -- I didn't wholeheartedly become a fan until Capaldi, who's now another of My Doctors. I was, in fact, an anti-fan during RTD's time; I didn't enjoy Eccleston, and hated Tennant.

Now since I have Britbox and access to all of Classic Who I can finally have a better understanding of the older Doctors and not feel so left out when they get brought up.

I will say that I didn't like Capaldi at first but he grew on me and I was sad to see him go. I wish we had gotten maybe one more season out of him.

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Her costume... that stupid costume has lost me, but I do keep telling myself that if I grew to like Colin Baker's Technicolor Nightmare Coat, I could deal with this impractical thing. (I bet Whittaker's finding filming in cold weather to be brrr with that low neckline and high cullotte legs.)

I'm waiting until we see it on the show before I decide how to feel about it. There have been times in the past I hated a costume based on photos or a small snippet of film that ended up looking good on the show or movie proper.

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That's okay, though. I haven't really been the intended or desired audience for NuWho, except with Capaldi, and fandom and the media and even someone(s) in the BBC had such screechfits over how terrible he was because he wasn't Tennant that I'm just done with DW and its ever-nutty fandom.

Staying away from most fandom is always a good idea. It just becomes too toxic, no matter what the franchise is. There are only a few message boards and sites that I visit to get my fandom fix. Otherwise I stay out of it.

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I have no idea where you're getting any of that from. "Pixie?" "Bubbly and cute?" All we saw was the Doctor reacting with surprise and eventual delight that finally, after 2000 years, they get to find out what it's like to be a woman. I imagine the Doctor would've been just as delighted to finally be ginger. And it was just one moment of pleasure following several moments of uncertainty and preceding several more moments of terror and shock. Matt Smith's debut scene was enormously more "bubbly and cute" than this.

Agreed. There wasn't much to her introduction and I didn't really get pixie, cute, or bubbly. At least, no more than usual with nuWho.

Has there been any word on companions? I've read conflicting reports so far.

[G-man]

My sole complaint about Jodie Whittaker was her lack of enunciation when she uttered her line:  “Brilliant.”  Had I not closed caption my streaming of the episode, I’d still be wondering just what it was she said.  To my ears, it sounded like “Brillnt,” with her swallowing most of the second syllable.

While I have normally do not mind accents, I would hope that the lead of a series would be speaking clearly enough so I could at least make out what they are saying without need of captions.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[Christopher]

 Virgil Vox, on 26 February 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'm waiting until we see it on the show before I decide how to feel about it. There have been times in the past I hated a costume based on photos or a small snippet of film that ended up looking good on the show or movie proper.

A still photo never really does justice to how something looks in action.

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Has there been any word on companions? I've read conflicting reports so far.

There are apparently three companions: Bradley Walsh as Graham, Tosin Cole as Ryan, and Mandip Gill as Yasmin. I recall reading a suggestion that they might not all be companions at once, but there was a recent production photo showing all of them with Whittaker on location. (Walsh was the star of another Chibnall show, Law & Order: UK, which also featured Freema Agyeman.) An actress named Sharon D. Clarke is slated for an unspecified recurring role.

 G-man, on 26 February 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

My sole complaint about Jodie Whittaker was her lack of enunciation when she uttered her line:  “Brilliant.”  Had I not closed caption my streaming of the episode, I’d still be wondering just what it was she said.  To my ears, it sounded like “Brillnt,” with her swallowing most of the second syllable.

While I have normally do not mind accents, I would hope that the lead of a series would be speaking clearly enough so I could at least make out what they are saying without need of captions.

I think you're mistaking her Yorkshire accent for a diction problem.

Edited by Christopher, 26 February 2018 - 02:08 PM.

[G-man]

When the accent is getting in the way of my understanding, it becomes a diction problem.  Or they should reduce the background noise.

Given that I was in York for a week, and I didn't have a problem understanding them, I'd say she is laying the accent on rather thickly.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 27 February 2018 - 09:51 AM.

[G-man]

I kind of figured that she was doing an accent.

However, when the accent gets in the way of understanding, it becomes a problem, especially if the producers refuse to reduce the background noise while she is speaking.

/s/

Gloriosus
The G-man Himself

[Christopher]

 G-man, on 26 February 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

When the accent is getting in the way of my understanding, it becomes a diction problem.

I think it's very offensive to equate someone else's natural accent with a speech problem. This is an English show, after all. It's not made for the inexperienced ears of American viewers. If we can't follow their regional accents without subtitles, that's a limitation to our knowledge and experience, not their failing for being themselves. And what's wrong with subtitles? I use them for foreign-language films and shows all the time, and sometimes I use them for English shows. I had to use captioning a lot for Torchwood because of all the thick Welsh accents. But I never thought that was the actors' fault. My lack of experience with Welsh accents was my limitation.

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Given that I was in York for a week, and I didn't have a problem understanding them, I'd say she is laying the accent on rather thickly.

Based on two words? Judgmental much? Understanding depends on context. Often, when I don't understand what someone said at first, I retroactively figure it out based on what they say next, which gives me the context to deduce the words I didn't clearly hear. A lot of our ability to understand people's conversation, regardless of accent, is based on that kind of extrapolation from partial data, reasoning backward from the larger context. We do it so routinely that we fail to realize how frequently we miss individual words in other people's speech. So if someone only says two words, there may not be enough context to let us fill in that gap if we didn't get it the first time. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the way they speak, it just means that the human brain can only do so much with such a small sample.

So for Pete's sake, let the poor woman get more than two words out before you judge.

[G-man]

^^^Ummm ... Chris?

Please be advised that Post #30 supersedes Post #29 which you have quoted.  One should seek out the latest post to see if a poster might have opted to rephrase himself.

I THOUGHT I was editing, but instead I had inadvertently created an additional post.

/s/

Gloriosus
The G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 26 February 2018 - 04:10 PM.

[Christopher]

^My response applies to your comments in both posts. If you don't understand someone else, it's missing half the equation to assume the fault can only be theirs. Recognizing our own limitations is essential if we want to be fair to others.

[RJDiogenes]

 G-man, on 26 February 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

My sole complaint about Jodie Whittaker was her lack of enunciation when she uttered her line:  “Brilliant.”  Had I not closed caption my streaming of the episode, I’d still be wondering just what it was she said.  To my ears, it sounded like “Brillnt,” with her swallowing most of the second syllable.  

I didn't understand her either. I had to ask someone online what she said. I would have preferred something else, since I grew tired of that particular slang term well over a decade ago.

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While I have normally do not mind accents, I would hope that the lead of a series would be speaking clearly enough so I could at least make out what they are saying without need of captions.  

I never understand half of what they say on Doctor Who, anyway.  

[G-man]

And yet, Christopher, if one does know their limitations and STILL doesn't understand what was said, in everyday conversation they can ask the person to repeat themself so clarity can be achieved.

In a performance, one doesn't have that luxury, hence a complaint about garbled dialog is a legitimate complaint.  And while closed captioning does ameliorate the problem, is it really so wrong to express a desire that the dialog be understandable without it?  IMHO, no.

Of course, I also have the unreasonable expectation that a work be able to stand on its own without needing supplementary materials to make sense of it.

So, obviously, YMMV.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[G-man]

Mind you, having said all that, it is only my initial impression.  I am willing to revise my opinion upon further viewing of her performance as the Doctor in the upcoming season.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 27 February 2018 - 09:59 AM.

[Kosh]

I stopped watching during Tenet"s run. I saw a couple of episodes with the next dr. And some of the last. Story got weird. Dr. Has a child? I'll look in on the new Dr.and give her a chance. I haven't seen her in anything else.

[RJDiogenes]

We've got a real trailer now:



Not much there, but at least there's nothing alarming-- which is pretty good these days.  

[Norville]

Definitely need to avoid fandom. If I ever watch Whittaker, I want to do so without fan influence, because too many (over on Tumblr, Twitter, Gallifrey Base, etc.) are fawning over her as if she's some perfect princess, while calling Capaldi garbage, and I'm sure she was all adorable and precious at San Diego Comic Con, but her fans have already wrecked her for me.

Kosh, sounds like you quit DW enough for it to make little sense to pick it up again -- except that S11 is apparently a bunch of standalone eps without many callbacks to what's come before. If that means that it frees the Doctor from the tiresome "I'm a poor little self-pitying Lonely God woobie because of the Time War" routine, I might actually find something positive to say despite my NuWho cynicism.

[Virgil Vox]

The trailer was decent. It didn't reveal too much but that is okay.

I like that apparently this season is going to focus on new characters and baddies. It will be good to give the Master, the Daleks, the Cybermen, the Weeping Angels, etc. a chance to rest. When I first saw the Daleks in season 1 they were frightening because they seemed so unstoppable. Unfortunately, they quickly became over-used.

I also like that instead of one companion there will be three. That will make for a nice change of pace. I just hope they are handled better than the multiple companions I'm watching on Classic Who with the 5th Doctor. It seems like one companion is always getting stuck in the TARDIS for most of the adventure. Heck, in one story Nyssa literally slept through most of it.

 Norville, on 22 July 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

Definitely need to avoid fandom. If I ever watch Whittaker, I want to do so without fan influence, because too many (over on Tumblr, Twitter, Gallifrey Base, etc.) are fawning over her as if she's some perfect princess, while calling Capaldi garbage, and I'm sure she was all adorable and precious at San Diego Comic Con, but her fans have already wrecked her for me.

Kosh, sounds like you quit DW enough for it to make little sense to pick it up again -- except that S11 is apparently a bunch of standalone eps without many callbacks to what's come before. If that means that it frees the Doctor from the tiresome "I'm a poor little self-pitying Lonely God woobie because of the Time War" routine, I might actually find something positive to say despite my NuWho cynicism.

I really hope you give the new season a chance and don't let the fandom wreck it for you. Trust me, while there are a lot of fans loving the new Doctor there are just as many hating her.

I believe I wrote this up thread but aside from a few sites I avoid most fandom. It is just too toxic nowadays. Look at how many actors are quitting social media because of the vitriol being spewed at them. It just isn't worth it.