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DTJ tweets new military policy: trans banned


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#1 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:38 AM

Reversing an Obama era policy that was to allow people who are transgendered to openly serve, Trump tweets out his new military policy that would ban people who are transgender from serving in any capacity.

He sites the both the medical cost and the disruption they purportedly would burden the military with.

He cries about a witch hunt all the time, but couldn't he have just started one? No discussion on concerns that even some LGBTQI+ allies *might* think could be reasonable (those who take daily hormones, maybe, if they are, what, distracted and more focused on missing those meds then that they are on the front lines in the middle of a war zone?). Just straight out ban the transgendered.

Are we going to get more on this policy than three tweets?

- What about people who come to the realization that they are (or might be) transgender while in the military? Respect and treatment? (Like they do for some military with diabetes, depending on fitness to serve). Or Automatic discharge for telling someone? Honourable, dishonourable, medical?
What if a *vet* comes to such a realization? Unlike other medical treatments, will vets who are transgender not get treatment?

- If the draft ever comes up again how will the determine if a person is being honest about being transgender?

- What is the military policy on people who are intersex and how, and why, does it differ from the policy on people who are transgendered? One might be able to argue from a treatment perspective (depending on the condition), but "disruption"..., which I assume is code for gender segregation, and unit cohesion and the sensitive moral of these puported tough military types.

Edited by sierraleone, 26 July 2017 - 12:42 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#2 Elara

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:59 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 26 July 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

One might be able to argue from a treatment perspective (depending on the condition), but "disruption", which I assume is code for gender segregation, and unit cohesion and the sensitive moral of these puported tough military types.

No, "disruptiuon" is code for: "Ew, they have cooties!" And the overpowering fear that those "cooties" might get on them and change them in some way, because we all know that is what happens. :rolleyes:
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#3 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:17 AM

^ that seems more accurate ;)
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#4 Omega

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:34 AM

Can Trump legally do that?

#5 yadda yadda

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:36 AM

View PostOmega, on 26 July 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Can Trump legally do that?
Constitutionally guaranteed power of the tweet

#6 yadda yadda

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:40 AM

And what's the saddest and most cynical part of this is he is throwing honored service men and women under the bus simply to shore up support with his pathetic bigoted base and to distract from his other troubles for maybe part of a news cycle.

#7 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

View PostOmega, on 26 July 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Can Trump legally do that?

I don't know. I am sure those currrently serving who are transgender would like to know...
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#8 Virgil Vox

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:28 PM

What a pathetic disgrace of a man and President. I have a few LGBT friends who supported Trump and thought he would be an ally to our community and of course he isn't. He never has been.

He did this because he's a bigot and he wants to keep the support of the bigots who voted for him. There are already transgender soldiers serving in the military and as far as I know they haven't had any kind of negative impact on us winning.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump tried to re-enforce Don't Ask, Don't Tell or just ban all LGBT people from serving in the military.

Plus, how low is it to make this kind of monumental decision which affects a large number of people serving and just drop it in a Tweet randomly?
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#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:30 PM

If I'm not mistaken, it takes an act of Congress to change the Military Code of Conduct. I could be wrong on that though, will try to find out more about it.

As for this tweet....Well damn if it didn't happen. Something the President is trying to do that I am completely against. When it comes to military, a person's gender shouldn't even be part of the equation. Only their ability to fight, and survive, and complete whatever their assigned missions are. As for President Trump's claims about disruption of the military...that excuse has been used every time a change in military policy was enacted. Back in the day it was: "Blacks can't serve in the military, it will disrupt the unit." Then it was gays...they would disrupt the military unit. Then it was women serving openly in combat roles. The list goes on.

On this issue...The President is wrong.
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#10 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:56 PM

^ And trying to do so through tweet... And apparently no one else relevant, who's employees are affected, had a clue this was happening.

IIUC Obama made a decision last summer, that wouldn't kick out or turn people away who were/wanted to serve who are transgendered, but he was having the military examine how they should be integrated which either a plan and/or policy to take effect Jul 1 this year. Trump's WH in Jun had kicked the can for that down the road another 6 months to Jan. Then Trump a month later does this?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#11 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:37 PM

According to a political article this Trump threw servicepersons who are transgendered under the bus in part for an attempt to secure votes/funds for the damn wall and increased military funding.

The Republicans though apparently only wanted assurances that federal dollars would not go towards transgender treatment, not banning people who are transgender from serving at all...

I don't know if their request was explained, or understood, properly, but if I were to blame explanating or understanding here I would bet on Trump not understanding (heck, maybe not even properly listening).

http://www.politico....e-scenes-240990

Edited by sierraleone, 26 July 2017 - 04:53 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#12 gsmonks

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 06:22 PM

The Right is about bigotry, an evil stone-age religion, inbred intolerance, and the desire to have the power to interfere in the lives of others.

What else were you expecting?

If you were looking for compassion guided by something like intelligence, the Right is the last place you'd find it.

The Right is just plain Wrong.
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#13 sierraleone

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:22 PM

I saw an excellent quote on-line in reaction to this decision, which I can't find now.

You know how it has always been an argument against allowing people to either serve at all, or along side all military personnel? That it would be disruptive, a "social experiment"? It is making the military PC when it should be a-political?

Well, if you run a merit-based mission-orientated organization with the goal of accomplishing all tasks put to it..... Isn't it social experimenting to segregate or exclude or harass/closet people who can do the job and do it well? Isn't it more a-political to say, "You meet our merit-based criteria, welcome to the military." I mean isn't anything else political and social engineering? Maybe in deference to the status quo social engineering of the day, but let's not kid ourselves the military was either a-political or entirely merit-based.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#14 sierraleone

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 05:53 AM

Here's the quote, from Obama's defence secretary Carter:

Quote

I continue to maintain what matters in choosing those to serve is that they are best qualified. To choose service members on other grounds than military qualifications is social policy and has no place is our military.


Emphasis mine.

Edited by sierraleone, 27 July 2017 - 03:11 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 sierraleone

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:11 PM

I want to give the Republican politicians props for standing for/with transgender servicewomen and men.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#16 sierraleone

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:46 PM

I am reading WaPo's Incredibly, the White House is spiralling even further into chaos, and it has this to say on the Transgender military ban:

Quote

Or look at how Trump went about announcing a dramatic policy shift at the Defense Department, in which transgender service personnel will be banned from the military. He first sent a tweet saying:

"After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow……"


… which was followed by a nine-minute pause. Pentagon officials had no idea what was coming, and BuzzFeed reports:

At the Pentagon, the first of the three tweets raised fears that the president was getting ready to announce strikes on North Korea or some other military action…Only after the second tweet did military officials receive the news the president was announcing a personnel change on Twitter.


The announcement caught everyone off guard. Even the president’s own spokeswoman seemed to have no idea how it might be implemented.

While this was happening, the secretary of defense was on vacation, and it’s unclear if he approved this policy change.

So even the military is reduced to going "holy frell, what's happening?" when Trump tweets….

Edited by sierraleone, 27 July 2017 - 03:48 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


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