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Hurricane Irma, another category 5 storm.

Irma category 5 storm category 6 storm

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#1 gsmonks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 05:17 PM

There comes a point when denial becomes delusion, and when it comes to climate-change denial, this is it. Only the deluded won't accept the catastrophic, overwhelming evidence that Irma embodies.

Category 5 storms were once the rarest of the rare. Now, they've become the norm. The science is such that the amount of stored energy in the ocean and atmosphere can be calculated with great accuracy, and the message here is that the amount of stored energy is going to produce category 5 hurricanes, and that the amount of stored energy has increased because of global warming, and the planet's warming is a consequence of industry.

Irma is now the most powerful hurricane ever recorded, and meteorologists are again talking about adding a category beyond 5, 5 long thought to be the most powerful a storm could become.

If a category 6 existed, Irma would be a category 6, because it packs winds greater than 174-180 miles per hour. The most powerful storms ever recorded were typhoons, at 190 and 195 miles per hour.

If ever there was a time to take climate change seriously, and do something about it, it would be now. The amount of energy stored in the oceans and atmosphere is not only generating more powerful storms, but has the potential to generate more of them. There is also the potential for the present models to break down, and self-sustaining systems to become generated.

This was seen with Harvey, as a feedback-loop set up shop and kept on feeding the storm with moisture. There is also the possibility of storms forming into chains and pounding the same area over and over and over again. Such an event would wipe a city like Houston off the map.

At this rate we'll be seeing storms with winds over 200 mph in the near future. 200 mph, in case you don't already know, is the speed of a tornado. In hurricane form, this means that any piece of debris of any size will become a deadly missile.
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#2 gsmonks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 07:37 PM

Big-business scabs don't want climate change to be acknowledged because of the "L" word, namely litigation. If climate change is real, and if it is caused by industry, then that opens the door to people being able to sue the industries responsible for damages.

In fact, I'm surprised that insurance companies are not already eyeing the possibility of recouping their losses from the industries responsible for crippling payouts. The industries in question are certainly not doing the insurance business any favours.

In theory, people could also go after their own government(s) for inaction having catastrophic consequences.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#3 gsmonks

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:07 PM

And so it begins: another hurricane has formed behind Irma- hurricane Jose.

Some models predict that it will become as big as Irma.

Many models also predict that the amount of stored energy in both ocean and atmosphere will lead to chains of hurricanes.
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#4 yadda yadda

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:25 PM

Word on Breitbart is 45 will build a sea wall to keep out Jose.

#5 Omega

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

At what point do we admit that we need to take more active measures to control the climate? Limiting CO2 emissions won't stop the damage at this point; we need to be actively doing something to counter the effects. Sequestration on a huge scale, planting a trillion trees, actively blocking sunlight, equalizing ocean surface and deep temperatures...

#6 sierraleone

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:07 PM

^ First step is admitting there is a problem… And on a societal level there needs to be a decent level of consensus….

Edited by sierraleone, 05 September 2017 - 09:08 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 Omega

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:14 PM

A trillion trees, BTW, is my rough estimate at what it would take to sequester all the excess carbon in the atmosphere post-1850 in thirty years. Since trees also act as a water reservoir, it could also reclaim every desert on earth.

#8 sierraleone

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

^ :suspect: It might be important enough to put resources into such a goal, however, planting trees where they don't grow would require lots of work…. Transporting water and soil composition betterment products.... Also, while I understand decertification has gotten worse, deserts do have their own eco systems. Additionally, a large large chunk of what is scientifically called desert (based on precipitation) is what most lay people would call the arctic or antarctic. Even if precipitation or soil quality wasn't an issue, there is an issue of sunlight.

ETA: based on a figure I am seeing of there being about 3 trillion trees on Earth now… so need to increase them by 1.333 without loosing what we have.
Woodland makes up 40% of Canada's 979 million hectares...
979 * 0.40 = 391.6 million hectares.
Canada's woodlands count for about 10% of the Earth's total woodlands.
391.6 million hectares x 10 = 3.916 billion hectares of woodland worldwide.
3.916 billion hectares x 0.3333 = 1.305 billion hectares of new woodlands needed.
1.305 billion hectares = 1.5 million square miles, or 3.9 million square km. Of new woodland needed.

An area about half the size of Australia, a country which is 2.97 million square miles.

Edited by sierraleone, 05 September 2017 - 11:04 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#9 Norville

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:26 PM

I haven't been hanging out here for a few months, because I just have found keeping up with news to be unbearable.

Anyway, never mind storms; San Francisco, California broke records on September 2 with a 100°F day, on the freaking coast where fog frequently (but not always) cools things off even in summer/fall. I was out in it part of the time, as I was going to a convention and going back home. 100°F??! But climate change doesn't exist. (Saw Peter Capaldi from "Doctor Who," which at least made the Day From Hell fun. He wondered if it's always that hot; I was able to tell him that it was a ridiculous heatwave.)

Edited by Norville, 05 September 2017 - 10:26 PM.

"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#10 sierraleone

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:01 PM

^ Nice to see you Norville :) Stay hydrated.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#11 gsmonks

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:24 AM

Forest fires, too. Here in Central Saskatchewan we're literally surrounded, with fires in BC, Alberta, Northern Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Forest fires are likewise part of the predicted models of Global Warming.
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#12 gsmonks

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:45 PM

. . . and then there were four: Harvey, Irma, Jose, and now Katia.
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#13 FarscapeOne

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:13 AM

Right now, as someone who lives in Miami, I'm just trying to get everything prepared for my family, and my wife's folks, nephews, and niece.

I just spent the whole day at work in Whole Foods.  Tomorrow, all day doing more preparations, then an overnight shift at work.

As much as I agree with everyone about global warming, because it gets WAY too hot here and gets worse every year, I don't really have the luxury of being a talking head about these subjects.

All I can do is finish whatever work that needs to get done.

#14 sierraleone

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:57 AM

^ Stay safe FarscapeOne.

I just finished reading an article about the small Caribbean islands devastated by Irma, with Jose close to their doorstep :( If some of their buildings managed to protect them as they were ruined, it is unlikely that their ruined buildings will be much help this time.... For Florida it looks like Jose won't hit.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 yadda yadda

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:39 AM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 07 September 2017 - 01:13 AM, said:

Right now, as someone who lives in Miami, I'm just trying to get everything prepared for my family, and my wife's folks, nephews, and niece.

I just spent the whole day at work in Whole Foods.  Tomorrow, all day doing more preparations, then an overnight shift at work.

As much as I agree with everyone about global warming, because it gets WAY too hot here and gets worse every year, I don't really have the luxury of being a talking head about these subjects.

All I can do is finish whatever work that needs to get done.

Hey Farscape One, I hope you and yours get through this ok. That Harvey is just beyond belief, so much loss and sadness. Once it's over and you're through the worst I'm going to PM you to ask your thoughts and experiences about the Amazon takeover. Everyone in the supermarket biz out here in Cali is scared to death about sales and market share in the wake of your acquisition. Hang in there, bro. Be safe!

#16 Elara

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:42 PM

You and your family stay safe, FarscapeOne. Keep us up to date how you are.

~.~.~.~.~.~.

You, and everyone else, will be happy to know that Rush Limbaugh has declared Irma to be a Liberal conspiracy, so nothing to worry about.

limbaugh quotes:

(This comment was made on (9/4).)

Quote

“The reason that I am leery of forecasts this far out, folks, is because I see how the system works,” Limbaugh said, alluding to alleged conspiracies against President Donald J. Trump. “Hurricane Harvey and the TV pictures that accompany that go a long way to helping further and create the panic.”

Yes, he does see how the system works, he does the same thing all the time. Jealous, perhaps?

Quote

“Here comes a hurricane, local media goes on the air, ‘Big hurricane coming, oh, my God! Make sure you got batteries. Make sure you got water. It could be the worst ever. Have you seen the size of this baby? It’s already a Cat 5. Oh, my God, oh, my God, it’s bigger than the island of Haiti. Oh, my God.’ People run to the stores, they stock up everything, and they hoard. And they end up with vacant stores, nothing there. And it’s a big success. TV stations got eyeballs, the advertising businesses have sold out of business, gotta restock and the cycle repeats.”

And he is doing what? Oh, using the hurricane for his own gain. ~Gomer Pyle~ Su-prise, su-prise. ~/Gomer Pyle~

Quote

RUSH: The hurricane is what I want to lead off with, folks. And I’ve gotta be very careful here because I am not a meteorologist, and nothing I say today should be considered to be a forecast or a prediction. I am not the National Hurricane Center. I am not a climatologist or meteorologist. All I do is analyze the data that they publish. Just as I am the go-to tech guy in my family and here on the staff, when it comes to a hurricane bearing down on south Florida, I’m the go-to guy.

He is the go-to tech guy for his staff? The go-to guy for hurricanes? Wow.

Quote

Limbaugh’s logic here is that “unlike UFOs, which only land in trailer parks, hurricanes are always forecast to hit major population centers.”

Ah yes, the people who live in trailer parks, only trash lives there. And he really needs to study the coast, or define major populations centers.

Quote

Everybody says, “What do you think is going to happen?” The reason for that is that I’m not biased and I have no agenda with my analysis of the data.

I'm sorry, WHAT?! Hurricanes equal Liberal conspiracy. But nope, no bias, no "agenda".

Quote

“You can accomplish a lot just by creating fear and panic,” he said. “You don’t need a hurricane to hit anywhere. All you need is to create the fear and panic accompanied by talk that climate change is causing hurricanes to become more frequent and bigger and more dangerous, and you create the panic, and it’s mission accomplished, agenda advanced.”

If this is true, then why didn't they use the 8 prior storms?

Quote

“I wish that not everything that involved news had become corrupted and politicized, but it just has,” he said.

No words, just no words.

Quote

“Yes, I know, there’s another storm out there,” Limbaugh said. “I know the drill. Jose. That would follow because J comes after I. So Harvey, Irma, Jose. Hurricane Jose. Yeah, wait ’til La Raza hears about that. Of course, depending on where it hits, they might support it.”
Limbaugh went to break after that comment, and by the time the show came back, news had broken that Miami-Dade County officials were considering evacuating people as early as Wednesday.
On Wednesday morning, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) officially called for evacuations.

He is completely oblivious to the prior 8 storms, or conveniently omitting their existence.

I didn't find any quote after the FL Governor made this call. I imagine he thinks the Republican Governor is doing it to score points, and would hail him for doing so. It couldn't be for the reasons the FL Governor tweeted:

Quote

“We can rebuild your home, but we cannot rebuild your life”: Florida governor: evacuate now.

Kudos to the FL Governor.
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#17 gsmonks

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:01 PM

I have a friend in Miami with serious mobility issues- Phil Holcomb of Phil's Rugs 'n' Relics. We're hoping he is well, but can't seem to get in touch with him. Best-case scenario- he and his family are already out of the house and on their way North to relatives.

Katia has planted itself squarely off the East side of the Florida panhandle, yet there is no mention from the pundits that it could deflect Irma well to the West. That's . . . curious? Odd?
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#18 sierraleone

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:44 PM

I read that they upgraded their building codes after 1992's Hurricane Andrew. This will be an unfortunate test of those new building codes… Though hard to build things that can stand a Cat 5 hurricane.

I also read there are two nuclear power plants in south Florida that require watching… Turkey Point Nuclear Generating Station a little south of Miami, and St. Lucie Nuclear Power Plant north of West Palm Beach.

Turkey Point was also hit directly by Hurricane Andrew in 1992, and suffered $90 million dollars in damage in that storm. One of its smoke stacks cracked in half despite supposedly built to withstand 235 mile per hour winds. And if the elements had gotten inside a smoke stack and affected the plants workings there could have been major issues.

Edited by sierraleone, 07 September 2017 - 09:44 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:49 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 05 September 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

Word on Breitbart is 45 will build a sea wall to keep out Jose.

ROFLMAO!

Now pardon me, while I finish cleaning the spit coffee off my wall. LMAO!

Edited by Lord of the Sword, 08 September 2017 - 03:49 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#20 yadda yadda

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:48 PM

^ :)  I see that Irma's got a path up through Georgia, LoTS. Anybody down there saying you'll get it where you are? Maybe as a tropical storm? Hope not. :(


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