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STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - S1, E1: "The Vulcan Hello"...

Star Trek: Discovery Star Trek: Discovery: Season 1

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#1 FarscapeOne

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:51 PM

While patrolling Federation space, the U.S.S. Shenzhou encounters an object of unknown origin, putting First Officer Michael Burnham to her greatest test yet.

#2 FarscapeOne

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:54 PM

Since I have inventory at my store tomorrow, I started the thread tonight.

I am really sad that I have to wait until around 2 or 3 in the morning to finally see new STAR TREK on my tv again.

#3 Cardie

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:13 PM

Broadcasts on CBS at 8:30ET/7:30CT.
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#4 Christopher

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

View PostCardie, on 23 September 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Broadcasts on CBS at 8:30ET/7:30CT.

Although there's football earlier in the day, so the start might be delayed.
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#5 Cybersnark

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:19 AM

It's also due to air (at the same time) on Space in Canada (which does not show football, so that shouldn't be an issue). Space will also be immediately following up with the second episode --note that CTV (the CBS affiliate in Canada) will only be showing the pilot.
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#6 RJDiogenes

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 03:44 PM

I may wait until Friday, since I have the day off, and watch the whole two hours at my leisure. Or I may not.

They posted the opening title sequence (minus credits-- and, possibly, narration) on YouTube:



Looks like they're trying to imitate the intricate opening sequences of pay-cable shows like Game of Thrones and Westworld.
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#7 QueenTiye

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:57 PM

OMG.... I loved it! Loved loved loved .


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#8 Cardie

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:37 PM

^^Not me.But that's mostly when you add on part 2.
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#9 Virgil Vox

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:51 PM

I liked it, though I don't know if I loved it. I'll have to watch part 2 and see where everything ends up since everything here is really just set-up. I mean, just from the previews and the fact that the show is called Discovery and not Shenzou we know that the ship and likely most of the crew will die so it's hard to get attached to any of the characters.

I'm not sure what to think of Burnham. Her character felt all over the place to me. Still, Sonequa Martin-Green acted the hell out of the role. I like Saru and his prediction of death aspect. I wonder why he became a Starfleet officer if he doesn't like to take any risky behaviors? Captain Georgiou was awesome. She was sassy and sarcastic and I loved it. Too bad she's probably not long for the world.

Was I the only one wondering why they didn't send a probe to the object instead of having Burnham take an extremely risky space walk to it? Yes, it was shielded from scans and everything but it still felt like that would have been something they would have tried first before risking the life of the first officer.

I'm not sure how I feel about the look of the Klingons. I know that the look has evolved and that the Klingons from TOS look nothing like the later Klingons but you could take Klingons from the movies, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT and they at least look like they come from the same species. These Klingons might as well be a completely new species.

I do appreciate that they speak Klingon and not English. I don't mind when aliens speak English because I understand the reasoning behind it but it's nice to see them putting in the effort.

Interesting that the Federation hasn't had any long term contact with the Klingons in over 100 years, aside from apparently the attack that killed Burnham's family.

It seems this Klingon sect wants to unite the Houses and wipe out the Federation. Nice mention of Kahless and how the Klingons have fallen away from his teachings.

The production values are off the scale. Everything looked impressive and movie quality.

I was disappointed that Paul Stamets didn't appear in the episode. The first openly gay character on ST and he isn't in the pilot?

Ugh. I really don't want to have to pay for yet another streaming service, especially since I will only watch one show on said service. Still, I'm a ST fan and will fork over the dough to see the show.
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#10 Cardie

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:38 AM

The first two episodes are kind of like the NuBSG mini-series. They set the stage and then things will move over to the Discovery and in a way the show starts over. Many of the regulars aren't in the Shenzhou story and only show up in episode 3.

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These Klingons might as well be a completely new species

Many of my qualms about the show would lessen if they were a new species and the series was set a decade or two after the Dominion War. We know where Federation-Klingon relations will be in ten years, and it seems hard to imagine that everything was so different only a few years previously.
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#11 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:59 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 24 September 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

Was I the only one wondering why they didn't send a probe to the object instead of having Burnham take an extremely risky space walk to it? Yes, it was shielded from scans and everything but it still felt like that would have been something they would have tried first before risking the life of the first officer.

The field interfered with electronic sensors, so even if a probe had gone out there and come back, it would've just contained a bunch of recorded static. They needed living eyes on the thing.


Quote

I'm not sure how I feel about the look of the Klingons. I know that the look has evolved and that the Klingons from TOS look nothing like the later Klingons but you could take Klingons from the movies, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT and they at least look like they come from the same species. These Klingons might as well be a completely new species.

Seriously? Sure, the noses and ears are a bit different, but they still have the trademark forehead ridges. And the superficialities of appearance aside, they speak Klingonese, their culture is recognizably Klingon, and their death rites are a direct lift from TNG: "Heart of Glory," except for the bodies being preserved rather than treated as disposable.



Quote

Interesting that the Federation hasn't had any long term contact with the Klingons in over 100 years, aside from apparently the attack that killed Burnham's family.

That actually fits quite nicely with what we've established in the post-series Enterprise novels. My Rise of the Federation: Live by the Code ended with the Klingons retreating inward to focus on internal divisions resulting from the Augment virus, and with some factions turning their backs on Kahless's teachings in favor of a TOS-style treachery. That was 91 years before this episode, which is close enough to 100.

But the line about no contact in a century was revealed as an overstatement within the episode itself, and in episode 2. I haven't seen that one yet, but I gather it mentions the Battle of Donatu V (established in "The Trouble With Tribbles"), which happened about 12 years before. And the Vulcan computer voice called the attack on Burnham's colony the most recent Klingon terrorist attack, not the only one.



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I was disappointed that Paul Stamets didn't appear in the episode. The first openly gay character on ST and he isn't in the pilot?

Neither is the title ship of the series or any of the regular cast besides Burnham and Saru. Welcome to the age of serial television.



Quote

Ugh. I really don't want to have to pay for yet another streaming service, especially since I will only watch one show on said service. Still, I'm a ST fan and will fork over the dough to see the show.

Once you have it, you may find there are other shows on the service that you'd like to see. At least, that's what CBS hopes for.
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#12 G-man

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:22 AM

OK, first things first.  This is a complete and utter reboot.

It has nothing to do with the Prime Timeline (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY), or the Revised Prime Timeline (ENT), or the Abramsverse … it is its own thing.  This means that I shouldn’t judge it in relation to how well it fits with the other iterations, or established continuity.

Fine.  They screwed up the promotion of it, but still, fine.

What they delivered … was a bit of a mess.  Visually, it looked great.  The acting felt a bit stiff, and the writing was lamentable, bogged down with exposition, backstory, and the constant need for nonsensical drama.

The opening gag, where, in the face of a sandstorm with the winds blowing they walk in the flowing desert sands to create the arrowhead insignia … doesn’t work.  With the wind blowing, the footsteps would have been wiped soon after passage.

The next gag of sending a person into a highly radioactive field to conduct recon … doesn’t work.  Why not a shuttle or Workpod?  Why endanger a crewmember to explore an identified object some 2000 meters (kilometers?) away?  If the former measure, then we’re talking some serious ECM which suggests hostile intent; if the latter, then that is really too far away to have someone spacewalk for only 19 minutes.  And then, even given advances in radiation treatment, there should’ve been no way for the XO to have been healthy enough to have left sickbay, much less make it to the bridge.  Why she wasn’t sedated during the recovery process, still has me baffled.

Then we have the gag where the Vulcan technique for dealing with the Klingons until matters had settled is “Top Secret” … Seriously?  And Earth not having contact with the Klingons for a century?  A claim contradicted within the episode itself.  Which, even if true, means that they HAD contact before, so why was there nothing in the ship's records concerning how to deal with Klingons from Earth’s own past experience.

Then we have the alien who summarized his races past by claiming “we were livestock” … which begs the question, how do you go from “livestock” to becoming a technologically savvy race?  Given the summation, I do not see how they got to here from there.

Finally, there’s the XO’s mutiny.  There is no other word for her incapacitating the captain in order to take over command.  That is mutiny.  At which point I shut the program off in disgust.

I do not like the lead character, I do not BELIEVE the lead character.  I liked the captain and that science officer, but the rest of the bridge crew were cyphers.  The Klingons … Meh.  I was already tired of the Klingons, and these with their clunky designs and costumes simply do not appeal to me.

All I can say is, I will not be paying to watch this series.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 25 September 2017 - 08:42 AM.

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#13 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

View PostG-man, on 25 September 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

OK, first things first.  This is a complete and utter reboot.

It has nothing to do with the Prime Timeline (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY), or the Revised Prime Timeline (ENT), or the Abramsverse … it is its own thing.  This means that I shouldn’t judge it in relation to how well it fits with the other iterations, or established continuity.

What, did you watch it with the sound off? Sure, the surface appearance of things is different, but in story content the ties to Prime continuity are clear, and they will become more clear over time. However they look, whatever they wear, the Klingon characters talk and act like Klingons and the Starfleet characters talk and act like Starfleet. Some of the technology seems too advanced, but that's because TOS was made 50 years ago and its assumptions about future technology are unviably primitive by modern standards, so it would be a bad idea to be limited by them.

When Star Trek: The Motion Picture came along, fans complained to Roddenberry about all the changes, the different-looking Klingons and the more advanced technology, and he asked them to accept that TOS had just been an imperfect approximation of the future, limited by the budget and resources it had, and that TMP was a more accurate approximation. (His TMP novelization even claimed that TOS was an "inaccurately larger than life" 23rd-century dramatization of Kirk's adventures, while TMP was a more accurate version due to having Kirk himself as a consultant.) Maybe fandom needs to remember that idea now. These aren't live feeds from an alternate universe, after all. They're dramatizations of a conjectural future, and their differences are due to differences in artistic interpretation. What matters is the underlying whole beneath the surface details.

I have a friend, Kirsten Beyer, who is on the Discovery writing staff. I have another friend, David Mack, who has worked closely with the staff to write the first tie-in novel to the show. I have spoken with them both (well, e-mailed with Kirsten) about the creative process behind the show. So I can assure you that the show is very much set in the Prime Timeline. The writers are very much aware of Prime continuity and are trying their best to tell a story that fits into Prime continuity, even when it superficially seems it can't. Dave's novel, which should be out within the next couple of days, will contain a lot of connective tissue between the DSC continuity and the Prime continuity we know, helping to show how it fits together.



Quote

Then we have the alien who summarized his races past by claiming “we were livestock” … which begs the question, how do you go from “livestock” to becoming a technologically savvy race?  Given the summation, I do not see how they got to here from there.

If they were livestock, then by definition they were bred and kept by some other species that probably had technology. Perhaps that species' civilization fell and the "livestock" took it over. Or perhaps aliens came to their world and freed the "livestock." Maybe even Starfleet did it before the Prime Directive.


Quote

Finally, there’s the XO’s mutiny.  There is no other word for her incapacitating the captain in order to take over command.  That is mutiny.  At which point I shut the program off in disgust.

If you'd kept watching, you would've seen that it was indeed called mutiny by the other characters, and it led to Burnham being placed under arrest.

Which does create a continuity issue, since TOS claimed there had never been a Starfleet mutiny. But perhaps these events will become classified?

Edited by Christopher, 25 September 2017 - 08:53 AM.

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#14 G-man

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:19 AM

Nope, I watched it with the sound on, Christopher, and I don’t appreciate the ad hominum.  What I saw was a reboot.  From Klingon cloaking devices, to captain’s calling admirals for orders, to XO’s placing personal calls outside normal ship comm channels.  For me, there was just too much that didn’t fit.

And if it wasn’t a reboot, then it was best for me to consider it one, if only to attempt to judge it on its own merits.  I liked the Captain of the Shenzhou, the visuals were impressive, and I liked the title sequence, but other than that, meh.

But, hey, you’re free to enjoy it … I’m usually out of step with most people, and this is simply another instance of it.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 25 September 2017 - 10:20 AM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
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Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

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#15 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:31 AM

View PostG-man, on 25 September 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

What I saw was a reboot.  From Klingon cloaking devices, to captain’s calling admirals for orders, to XO’s placing personal calls outside normal ship comm channels.  For me, there was just too much that didn’t fit.

Fans have reacted that way to every new incarnation of Trek, but eventually either they or the shows' own makers come up with ways to reconcile the discrepancies. Here's how Keith DeCandido put it in his Tor.com review:

Quote

Let us discuss a new Star Trek that people have to pay for instead of watching for free. One in which the Klingons have been completely redesigned, one in which the technology looks completely different from what we would expect, as do the uniforms—all without a word of explanation. One in which one of the main characters has to reconcile human and Vulcan values. And one in which the production was fraught with behind-the-scenes difficulties.

I am, of course, talking about Star Trek: The Motion Picture in 1979.

Besides, it isn't the viewers who decide whether it's a reboot, it's the creators and the studio. As I told you, I know for a fact from my friend on the show's actual writing staff that they are approaching the show as part of the Prime timeline. Every future Star Trek television series, movie, novel, and comic book from now on, for the rest of the existence of the franchise, will treat the events and concepts of Discovery as part of the Prime timeline, just as they treat every other prior show that many fans insisted was "not real Trek" as part of the Prime timeline. So it's not for you to decide that. There were fans in the '80s who insisted that The Wrath of Khan was not part of the "real" Trek universe, there were fans who insisted TNG wasn't real Trek, there were fans who insisted that Enterprise wasn't real Trek. But nobody who actually made new Star Trek after that ever listened to them.
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#16 Cybersnark

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:08 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 24 September 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

The production values are off the scale. Everything looked impressive and movie quality.

I liked it, though I actually think the production values were the source of most of my problems with it; it felt like the visuals were trying way too hard to say "LOOK HOW EXPENSIVE THIS IS!!!1!"

A tighter budget would've helped streamline a lot of the overblown and frankly unnecessary CGI (name one useful thing that a translucent free-floating hologram can do that a viewscreen can't).
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#17 3C273

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:16 PM

I saw both episodes.  Looks like we have another shoot-shoot-bang-bang type of show.  Where is the optimism of TOS?  Can't say I enjoyed this series.  Much prefer The Orville, which looks like it will discuss serious issues without the violence.

#18 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

View PostCybersnark, on 25 September 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

(name one useful thing that a translucent free-floating hologram can do that a viewscreen can't).

Allow the actors to perform face-to-face. Apparently that's the reason they did it that way -- for the sake of the performances. Although the images are processed to make the "hologram" actors translucent and flickery, they're actually there on the set interacting directly with the other actors and able to play off each other. This is what DS9's producers hoped to gain when they introduced the holocommunicator idea, but since the holograms of that era looked indistinguishable from physically present people, it was too unclear what was going on, and the actors had to restrict themselves to standing on the holocommunicator stage, so they decided it didn't quite work out despite the performance benefits. Here, they've managed to solve those problems by depicting it as, ironically, a less advanced, less lifelike technology.
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#19 gsmonks

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:03 PM

Train wreck. Too much CGI. Not enough acting. Yes, there was plenty of furious emoting, but precious little acting.

Poor writing, poor continuity. But I'm going to give it a  chance. TNG started off poorly, and improved greatly with perma-smirk (Gates McFadden) and the Tasha Yar characters departing the set.
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#20 QueenTiye

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:27 PM

^^^I don't typically agree with you, and don't fully now, but I agree that TNG started off poorly, and Tasha Yar, as much as I liked her, was not a fantastic character - I didn't miss her at all when I tuned back in for Season 3.  

The interesting thing here is that we haven't actually met the ensemble yet.  Burnham and Sheep-Alien are the only two I'm sure are still in the show of those we met over these two episodes.   SO - we have a great opportunity for development.  Looking forward to it.  I already love this show, especially since it seems to occupy that Trek-space that later seasons of DS9 occupied.  Some fans didn't like DS9 all that much, with the war and all.  So - this may not be everyone's cup of tea.  But I see great potential!

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