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STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - S1, E2: "Battle at the Binary Stars".

Star Trek: Discovery Star Trek: Discovery: Season 1

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#1 FarscapeOne

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:52 PM

Face to face with Klingon vessels, the U.S.S. Shenzhou prepares for the possibility of war if negotiations fail. Amidst the turmoil, Burnham looks back to her Vulcan upbringing for guidance.

#2 FarscapeOne

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:53 PM

Since I have inventory at my store tomorrow, I started the thread tonight.

I am really sad that I have to wait until around 2 or 3 in the morning to finally see new STAR TREK on my tv again.

#3 Cardie

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:13 PM

I'm enrolled at All Access so can report on the second part. CBS main is only broadcasting the first hour.
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#4 FarscapeOne

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:25 PM

I will be setting up my All Access account later tonight.

One of the birthday gifts I got was a $25 gift card for CBS All Access.  That basically paid for the first season.

#5 Cybersnark

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:20 AM

A heads-up from the other thread: Canada's Space will also be airing this episode tonight after the pilot --note that CTV (the CBS affiliate in Canada) will only be showing the pilot.
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#6 QueenTiye

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

And again... loved.

This Trek has the potential to be the best Trek ever, giving DS9 a run for its money. I've never liked Trek's early episodes... they always seem a little hokey til the show settles in to what it's going to be. But with this pay to play model, they had to succeed from the start and not take for granted that the audience would stick around for a season and a half before they got GOOD. (Seriously, I turned out of TNG until season three when I was hooked, and I stuck with DS9 from the beginning, but it seriously picked up steam in season 3.)  But Discovery (seriously, we're not calling it STD are we? :dizzy: ) is awesome from jump.

I will say that at present I am not feeling the one alien guy, and I am not sure I like the new Klingons but I loved recognizing their culture and knowing that we would have their whole cultural reference built in. But otherwise, I am looking forward to seeing other aliens and hope we get more in depth look at alien culture.

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#7 Cardie

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:42 PM

I do not like that they start out with an admired veteran captain and her first officer on the brink of her own command, both played by women of color, and then end up with the former dead and the latter court martialed, disgraced and jailed. And when they get to the story proper next week
Spoiler
But I'll reserve judgment until the season plays out.
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#8 G-man

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:40 AM

Having the XO mutiny and start a shooting war with the Klingons will result in her court martial and disgrace.  This rather undermines any reasoning one could provide for her being allowed back to assume her former position on a Federation starship.  Unfortunately, insubordination and mutiny is not something that can be ameliorated by stating she’s off her meds, or she thought she was right.  Insubordination MIGHT be winked at, Mutiny, OTOH, can never be ignored.  That is the one crime that can never be forgiven within a navy (or Starfleet), especially when the CO is capable and is doing what she ought to be doing.

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#9 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:01 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 24 September 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

(seriously, we're not calling it STD are we? :dizzy: )


The official abbreviation is DSC. None of the 3-letter codes have "ST" in them because they're all ST -- TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VGR, ENT, DSC.
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#10 QueenTiye

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

View PostCardie, on 24 September 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

I do not like that they start out with an admired veteran captain and her first officer on the brink of her own command, both played by women of color, and then end up with the former dead and the latter court martialed, disgraced and jailed. And when they get to the story proper next week
Spoiler
But I'll reserve judgment until the season plays out.

I agree that the death of Capt. Georghiou is the least appealing thing to have happened.  Turns out all the "fans" yelping about too much diversity didn't have to worry all that much.  And so the ranking Star Trek captain returns to default.  BUT, since this is Michael Burnham's story - I'm willing to go for the ride - she's great, and complex, and confident and, yet, unsure of herself.  I like her, and I think she's worth following around and seeing how she makes out.

Christopher has argued across two threads that the Klingons are KLINGONS. That's what I like most about them.  The design is not thrilling me - but it makes sense after a fashion - the fact that Klingons have, heretofore been so homogeneous seems off for an entire planet - humans aren't so homogeneous, and yet, in another sense, we TOTALLY ARE - it makes sense that looking at Klingons as aliens they look the same and the more we learn about them, the more distinction we can see in them.  THAT is a welcome change, and if we can distinguish the houses by their "ethic" look, all the better.  But, that said - that's me reaching for a sense of positivity about the change in the look of the Klingons.

I also note the bang-up smash up complaints.  I'm not terribly disappointed in this aspect - I'm hoping that as we get to know the characters, we get more of the overall sense that the Star Trek universe is not just a beautiful tableau that actors walk in and out of, but a lived-in environment where federation ideals are actually practiced.  Like in DS:9 - those ideals get tested against the ideals of those who don't share them.  And in the human-centric Treks we've had so far, I've quite appreciated having Cmmdr Burnham's near-Vulcan perspective - her approach to problem-solving
is unique, causes conflict, will be something she needs to grow with and from, as she already has been doing - I think that's an awesome nexus to explore what it means to be Starfleet.

QT

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#11 QueenTiye

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:18 PM

View PostChristopher, on 25 September 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostQueenTiye, on 24 September 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

(seriously, we're not calling it STD are we? :dizzy: )

The official abbreviation is DSC. None of the 3-letter codes have "ST" in them because they're all ST -- TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VGR, ENT, DSC.

Thank you! I leaned backwards for three letters because obviously Discovery is one word, but OK, so is VGR and ENT.  Shows you how much I paid attention to either of those shows...

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#12 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 25 September 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

And so the ranking Star Trek captain returns to default.


Well, not entirely. The actor is English, but the character is named Gabriel Lorca, so he's presumably of Spanish or Latino extraction.

Plus, of course, he's not the lead character, Burnham is.
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#13 Jorgasnarova

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:37 PM

Episode Two was available by subscription only.  My commentary below will include spoilers.

Episode Two, was, I thought, better plotted, paced, and directed than Episode One.

Loved how the Klingons were depicted as having multiple ideologies and ethnicities, and even had their own version of racial bigotry, i.e. their shunning of the albino Voq.

We get some more of Burnham's backstory.  Loved the flashback with her meeting Michelle Yeoh.

Loved the tips of the hat to established continuity.  Sarek mentioning that his long distance telepathy with Burnham will take its toll upon him, implying his "Journey to Babel" heart condition was initiated, or at least exacerbated, by their mind link.

The final scene...Burnham disgraced, court martialed, and imprisoned.  She is, I think, Discovery's version of Voyager's Tom Paris, a detested outsider on a search for redemption and acceptance.

David Mack's novel about Burnham's early years should be in the shops tomorrow.

A comic book biography of T'Kuvma is being prepared by IDW Comics.  The first issue will be out next month.

Disappointed but unsurprised that Chris Obi's and Michelle Yeoh's characters were killed off so quickly.  I fervently hope they will both continue to make appearances via flashbacks.

Next week:  the titular USS Discovery makes its appearance.

Edited by Jorgasnarova, 25 September 2017 - 05:54 PM.


#14 Christopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:22 PM

View PostJorgasnarova, on 25 September 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

David Mack's novel about Burnham's early years should be in the shops tomorrow.

And about the Shenzhou crew as a whole. It's interesting how that worked out -- since most of the characters we saw in this 2-parter didn't survive, that pretty much gives Dave and the comics authors (Kirsten Beyer and Mike Johnson) greater freedom to flesh out those characters in their tie-ins without the risk of conflicting with series canon. And the novel and comic supplement the show by fleshing out the Shenzhou crew and T'Kuvma in ways the show didn't. It's kind of as if DS9's first tie-in novel had been about Sisko's time on the Saratoga. Although we only got a few minutes with that crew instead of two episodes.
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#15 Virgil Vox

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:10 PM

Finally watched this and I thought it was okay. I wish CBS had aired this alongside part 1 because the two episodes really do form one big two hour premiere.

I guess my biggest complaint is that we spent two episodes on a ship and crew that largely don't matter. Most of them died and the rest we probably won't see again. Yes, I get that it's serialized storytelling but that doesn't mean I have to like how they're pacing the show.

I thought Ensign Conner might be a goner but I wasn't sure since his actor did promotion for the show and a few panels so it made it seem like he would be a recurring character.

When it was going to be a suicide mission I understand why the captain was going to undertake it. When the mission turned to one of sneaking aboard the Klingon ship and capturing T'Kuvma why did she go? Wouldn't it have been better to send trained security officers?

The battle scenes were impressive, I'll give them that.

I'm just finding myself with not much to say about the episode. It was fine; it just didn't wow me.
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#16 Christopher

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:20 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 26 September 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

Finally watched this and I thought it was okay. I wish CBS had aired this alongside part 1 because the two episodes really do form one big two hour premiere.

More like 90 minutes, if that. I was rather surprised to see that episode 2 was only 40 minutes long. I'm used to shows on streaming services being longer than the 42-ish minutes commercial-TV shows have to cram into, able to stretch their limbs more and take more time to tell the story. So to see a streaming episode actually be shorter than the broadcast norm is surprising.



Quote

I guess my biggest complaint is that we spent two episodes on a ship and crew that largely don't matter. Most of them died and the rest we probably won't see again.

Of course they matter. These events aren't just going to be forgotten, they're going to drive Burnham and how people look at her for the rest of the season.

Anyway, the only characters we really focused on were Burnham and Saru, who are still main characters, and Georgiou, who was Burnham's mentor and friend whom she got killed and thus is bound to leave a huge shadow on the rest of the season. The other Shenzhou characters were pretty much ciphers anyway. As for T'Kuvma, he's dead, but that makes him a martyr, so he'll continue to drive the story from now on as a symbol. So the bulk of these episodes' time and attention was spent on characters who will continue to matter.



Quote

When it was going to be a suicide mission I understand why the captain was going to undertake it. When the mission turned to one of sneaking aboard the Klingon ship and capturing T'Kuvma why did she go? Wouldn't it have been better to send trained security officers?

She's Michelle Yeoh. She's worth thirty security officers.

But yeah, I wondered the same thing. It didn't really have to be her. But it's not like we haven't already seen a 23rd-century starship captain with a habit of personally leading every dangerous mission. Heck, maybe Kirk learned that from Georgiou's example.
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#17 Orpheus

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:15 PM

One of the most disappointing things about the new klingons was precisely their lack of consistent philosophy/ethos.

I'm not saying this is unrealistic for any species [TwenCen humans, Klingons across the franchise; or Klingons in this premiere], but it was disconcerting.

By the logic of "The Vulcan Hello", how would you expect the Klingons to react when:

a) an unarmed Federation officer kills an appointed Klingon champion twice her size, on a Klingon ship, with his own bat'leth (seen in the recovered corpse)
b) during a Klingon incursion into acknowledged Federation space that the Klingons have never claimed
c) indeed, T'Kuvma doesn't claim it now, but merely declares after the death, that Federation borders are too close to Klingon Territory

Surely, they should see this as an act of honor and bravery. But no, it's a cause for petulant outrage.

Again: not unrealistic, but rather more "all-too-human" than Klingon/alien. Yes, cultural attitudes change over centuries --or ebb and flow within a range depending on immediate political/social events or sentiments. Yes, it's not unheard of for Klingons to exhibit petulance -- but over the course of the franchise, we've come to know "the noble Klingons" who would acknowledge that it was a righteous kill, despite disadvantages. It may be unfair to compare these "old" Klingons to all those we have seen [historically] "since", but the Klingon culture I know and respect has unnumbered centuries of noble ideas and philosophical duty (by their own rules). T'Kuvma references Kahless, so we know that those ideals are known to him.

The current Klingons seem brutish, with no honor except self-serving glory. If they had responded to a Vulcan Hello, it wouldn't have been out of respect; they would only have backed down if tactically/physically outgunned. It's too soon to say for sure, but even T'Kuvma's "respect" for the High Council seems to be mostly acknowledgement of their situational power (which admittedly is something we've seen in Klingon politics throughout -- but mostly among "those without true honor" or as lapses, later regretted, by honorable Klingons near the pinnacle of power). He seems defiant, ready to "take them down" (just not yet).

I just found that disappointing. The richer, more honorable Klingon [characters/groups] are more interesting to me. They seem more like a culture than a caricature.

#18 Cardie

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 06:47 PM

I took it that T'kuvma was looking to provoke any aggression from the Federation so that he could say, "See!" and then whip their butts. If Burnham had not confronted and killed the Torchbearer, he would have contrived another provocation to get the Shezhou to fire. The Vulcan hello got other Klingons of the time to back off but T'kuvma wanted it more than anything.
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#19 Orpheus

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 07:41 PM

That would indeed explain what the "sacred ship" was doing inside the outer edge of Federation space.

T'Kuvma's salvaged personal warship.and his allies would likely have lacked the cachet. Maybe the council would have seen an attack on them as their own fault.

Okay, I'll choose to believe that for now. The sacred ship (which may not have been entirely his to bring) might also explain the sudden arrival of the High Council.

#20 Christopher

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 08:04 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 27 September 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

That would indeed explain what the "sacred ship" was doing inside the outer edge of Federation space.

Not necessarily. It could be an "Arena"-type situation where Federation expansion unknowingly impinged upon territory already claimed by another power. The beacon was supposedly ancient, after all. I got the impression it was connected to the Kahless legend. It reminded me of the tale that Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and told the Klingons that they would find him there. Okay, that star was the one orbited by the monastery planet Boreth, but it seemed like the beacon -- which lit up like a star to call the Klingons to battle -- was playing on that mythological resonance.
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