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#1 yadda yadda

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

Sometimes one just has to ask why. Brain tumor, end of life bitterness? Mental illness? Demonic possession? 15 minutes of fame seeker? Just f---ing why?

What is the matter with this country, with the world?

#2 Elara

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:36 PM

People now openly state a need for violence. Don't like the way someone looks? Hit them! Don't like the music? Stab somebody! Decide there may be a few Liberals/Conservatives in a group? Shoot them all! They have a different religion? Blow them up. Kill anyone who is different. This is on the heads of our leaders and any talk show host that advocates violence, or dismisses it as not being what it is, hatred/unfounded fear because someone is different or disagrees.

Fear is being sown in this country. We don't need to fear terrorists, we are doing the job for them because we now feel anyone who is different is out to kill us, and that goes for people of every color. We are being groomed to hate and fear each other by politicians, just so they can get votes.
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#3 gsmonks

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:15 PM

It's a classic case of mental illness, with lots of tip-offs. The father had mental health issues (sociopath). Paddock was a gambler.

In my estimation, Paddock was bi-polar. A few signs of bi-polar are gambling and grandiosity. Spree killers often experience episodes of extreme grandiosity (feeling god-like and above other people).

The devil's in the details, as they say. For example, as a teenager/young adult, my younger brother, a musician, used to fantasize about the band opening up on the audience with machine-guns, the ultimate display of contempt for the audience. I heard the same fantasy uttered from the mouths of other musicians over the years, so as a fantasy it's a "thing". I'm willing to bet Paddock harboured a similar fantasy over the years, and finally acted on it.

Then there are people like myself who have low serotonin levels, or else their bodies can't process serotonin. If untreated, I can well understand how such a person could do what Paddock did. It's a condition that is invisible to everyone else, feels horrible all the time, even when a person is asleep, and the sufferer is hanging by a thread (of control and impulse-control) literally all the time.

There but for the grace of dog doo eye.
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#4 gsmonks

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:12 PM

There's something so-o-o-o American about Stephen Paddock's Rite of Slaughter . . . so NRA-ish, so gun-ish.

First off, he has set the bar very high for subsequent killers, as has been pointed out by the various media, ad nauseam. The next nut to come along has all the information he needs for planning an even more ambitious campaign of drilling holes in people with weapons supposedly restricted to the arena of war.

The only weapons capable of causing far more masses of people to leak their previous bodily fluids to death are Gatling guns and high explosives. There are plenty of YouBoob videos of people who own mini-guns.

The M1-34 Minigun is made by your friends and mine at General Electric, and can spray crowds of people at a rate of 6000 rounds per minute. That's 90,000 rounds in the 15 minutes it took Paddock to shoot around 560 people.

The gun manufacturers and the NRA must be proud! Someone has to manufacture those guns 'n' bullets, so the more people killed, the better it is for business. Just look at all the American jobs being created by this good ol' American-style carnage!

Here's some info on Gatling guns, some good ol' boys shootin' 'em, and info on where you can get yours! Why not buy one of your very own, and see if you can out-do ol' Stephen Paddock!

https://www.bing.com...tling&FORM=VDRE
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#5 gsmonks

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:17 PM

Here's where you can buy your very own General Electric M1-34 Minigun:

http://www.armaments...om/miniguns.htm

Now tell me again, CNN and other major media outlets, that fully automatic weapons are illegal, and can't be purchased by the general public?

Note the disclaimer: THIS GUN CANNOT BE SOLD TO THE CIVILIAN MARKET.

Ri-ight . . .

Edited by gsmonks, 03 October 2017 - 02:19 PM.

Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#6 sierraleone

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

:(
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 yadda yadda

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:03 PM

Gsmonks, are the posts about death dealing machines of violence really necessary? They're hurtful to a lot of folks right now. I don't appreciate them. I wish I could delete this whole thread to be honest with you. Please stop.

#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:04 PM

May those killed R.I.P, and thoughts and prayers to their loved ones.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#9 gsmonks

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:42 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 03 October 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Gsmonks, are the posts about death dealing machines of violence really necessary? They're hurtful to a lot of folks right now. I don't appreciate them. I wish I could delete this whole thread to be honest with you. Please stop.

Not talking about this problem and doing something about it is happening over and over and over again, almost on a daily basis.

Mourning the dead becomes a gratuitous, meaningless act when the ongoing underlying problem gets shoved aside every time this happens and isn't dealt with.

It's almost as though the US itself has become a self-terrorist, that in times like this is boo-hooing that a pipe bomb its son was building went off in his face and blew his guts and brains all over the family garage. No thought whatsoever of banning pipe bombs.

And now there's talk of making silencers legal and easy to get, making the next Stephen Paddock even more lethal, because no one will hear where the shots are coming from.

Worrying about people's feelings is what you do after the underlying problem is fixed. Mass shootings are an ongoing problem, with people dying each and every day.

You may as well be mourning the dead right on the battlefield, with mourners being shot dead in the process and tossed in the pit, with an endless line of mourners standing in line and being shot dead in endless succession.

There comes a point when someone must point out the absurdity and the futility of human action and emotion.
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#10 yadda yadda

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:49 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 03 October 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postyadda yadda, on 03 October 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Gsmonks, are the posts about death dealing machines of violence really necessary? They're hurtful to a lot of folks right now. I don't appreciate them. I wish I could delete this whole thread to be honest with you. Please stop.

Not talking about this problem and doing something about it is happening over and over and over again, almost on a daily basis.

Mourning the dead becomes a gratuitous, meaningless act when the ongoing underlying problem gets shoved aside every time this happens and isn't dealt with.

It's almost as though the US itself has become a self-terrorist, that in times like this is boo-hooing that a pipe bomb its son was building went off in his face and blew his guts and brains all over the family garage. No thought whatsoever of banning pipe bombs.

And now there's talk of making silencers legal and easy to get, making the next Stephen Paddock even more lethal, because no one will hear where the shots are coming from.

Worrying about people's feelings is what you do after the underlying problem is fixed. Mass shootings are an ongoing problem, with people dying each and every day.

You may as well be mourning the dead right on the battlefield, with mourners being shot dead in the process and tossed in the pit, with an endless line of mourners standing in line and being shot dead in endless succession.

There comes a point when someone must point out the absurdity and the futility of human action and emotion.

Oh, ok. Well f**k you then.

#11 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:04 PM

http://time.com/4965...-victims-names/

The link above will take you to where those killed are listed, and their stories are told. I would've quoted the whole thing, but the list is just too long.

Here's to remembering those cruelly taken from us.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#12 Elara

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:59 PM

View Postyadda yadda, on 03 October 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

Oh, ok. Well f**k you then.

I was going to go with: "Oh, shut up." but yours works, too.

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

http://time.com/4965...-victims-names/

The link above will take you to where those killed are listed, and their stories are told. I would've quoted the whole thing, but the list is just too long.

Here's to remembering those cruelly taken from us.

I read that list earlier, along with other stories of how people gave their lives to save their loved ones, as well as strangers. Right now, my heart is breaking for the victims and the families who lost a loved one, and the families who are waiting for a loved one to recover.
Maybe someday, I will feel something for the shooter, because it's painfully obvious there was something wrong with him, but right now, I simply hate him for what he did.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#13 gsmonks

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:39 AM

I'm not advocating feeling anything for the shooter. What I am saying is that you can't stop something like this without understanding the person doing the shooting.

Even saying the cause is mental illness is a cop-out. Most people suffer at least a little mental illness at some time in their lives. Yet they weren't up there on the 32nd floor with an eye to mass murder.

You can't even point to a loss of impulse-control, because that's a momentary thing. This guy had months, perhaps years, to plan and prepare.

Pointing to evil is patent nonsense because evil is a religious idea with no basis in reality.

We can't even cite a lack of empathy, because few sociopaths actually kill people. Theirs is generally a matter of social dysfunction.

Then there are all the television-show-dog-whistle memes such as "overpowering rage", and other such nonsense. You can't have an utter lack of empathy and overbearing rage. I don't think rage was involved at all. I do, however, think that contempt was at the core of his actions.

One thing I took away from reading several books about serial killers is the contempt they had for their victims. Beyond that, despite the appearance of premeditation and planning, they were pretty much running on autopilot, their actions driven by a visceral compulsion that seems to be unique to persons like themselves.

In Paddock's case, I'd wager that he targeting people who were enjoying themselves specifically because he himself lacked the capacity to enjoy himself, probably because he was unable to access his own emotions. Having experienced that myself, for forty years, I can tell you from personal experience that that was the source of his contempt. Why should all those people be normal and happy when he couldn't? It's not fair. Now he's retired, with nothing to look forward to, with no normalcy in sight.

As I said, there but for the grace of dog doo eye. Give me serotonin reuptake inhibitors or give me death.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#14 Seph

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:47 AM

My first impression was mental illness. Do we know if he was diagnosed as mentally ill.

#15 Elara

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:06 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 04 October 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

I'm not advocating feeling anything for the shooter. What I am saying is that you can't stop something like this without understanding the person doing the shooting.

Even saying the cause is mental illness is a cop-out. Most people suffer at least a little mental illness at some time in their lives. Yet they weren't up there on the 32nd floor with an eye to mass murder.

You can't even point to a loss of impulse-control, because that's a momentary thing. This guy had months, perhaps years, to plan and prepare.

Pointing to evil is patent nonsense because evil is a religious idea with no basis in reality.

We can't even cite a lack of empathy, because few sociopaths actually kill people. Theirs is generally a matter of social dysfunction.

Then there are all the television-show-dog-whistle memes such as "overpowering rage", and other such nonsense. You can't have an utter lack of empathy and overbearing rage. I don't think rage was involved at all. I do, however, think that contempt was at the core of his actions.

One thing I took away from reading several books about serial killers is the contempt they had for their victims. Beyond that, despite the appearance of premeditation and planning, they were pretty much running on autopilot, their actions driven by a visceral compulsion that seems to be unique to persons like themselves.

In Paddock's case, I'd wager that he targeting people who were enjoying themselves specifically because he himself lacked the capacity to enjoy himself, probably because he was unable to access his own emotions. Having experienced that myself, for forty years, I can tell you from personal experience that that was the source of his contempt. Why should all those people be normal and happy when he couldn't? It's not fair. Now he's retired, with nothing to look forward to, with no normalcy in sight.

As I said, there but for the grace of dog doo eye. Give me serotonin reuptake inhibitors or give me death.

Basically, no matter we say, you will tell us we are avoiding the issue even though we aren't. But hey, anything to ignore yadda's request, while wagging your finger at us, as you lecture.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#16 Elara

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:07 PM

View PostSeph, on 04 October 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

My first impression was mental illness. Do we know if he was diagnosed as mentally ill.

That is my thought as well, but so far, if there was, it was not known by family. His father had issues and was on the most wanted list, so there could be something that was passed on to the shooter.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#17 Billzs

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:17 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 02 October 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

It's a classic case of mental illness, with lots of tip-offs. The father had mental health issues (sociopath). Paddock was a gambler.

In my estimation, Paddock was bi-polar. A few signs of bi-polar are gambling and grandiosity. Spree killers often experience episodes of extreme grandiosity (feeling god-like and above other people).

The devil's in the details, as they say. For example, as a teenager/young adult, my younger brother, a musician, used to fantasize about the band opening up on the audience with machine-guns, the ultimate display of contempt for the audience. I heard the same fantasy uttered from the mouths of other musicians over the years, so as a fantasy it's a "thing". I'm willing to bet Paddock harboured a similar fantasy over the years, and finally acted on it.

Then there are people like myself who have low serotonin levels, or else their bodies can't process serotonin. If untreated, I can well understand how such a person could do what Paddock did. It's a condition that is invisible to everyone else, feels horrible all the time, even when a person is asleep, and the sufferer is hanging by a thread (of control and impulse-control) literally all the time.

There but for the grace of dog doo eye.

The real evidence show that HIGH, not low, serotonin, achieved by eating certain antidepressants (serotonin reuptake inhibitors), leads to violence, homicide, suicide -- http://www.supplemen...de-effects.html

#18 gsmonks

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:59 PM

View PostBillzs, on 04 October 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 02 October 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

It's a classic case of mental illness, with lots of tip-offs. The father had mental health issues (sociopath). Paddock was a gambler.

In my estimation, Paddock was bi-polar. A few signs of bi-polar are gambling and grandiosity. Spree killers often experience episodes of extreme grandiosity (feeling god-like and above other people).

The devil's in the details, as they say. For example, as a teenager/young adult, my younger brother, a musician, used to fantasize about the band opening up on the audience with machine-guns, the ultimate display of contempt for the audience. I heard the same fantasy uttered from the mouths of other musicians over the years, so as a fantasy it's a "thing". I'm willing to bet Paddock harboured a similar fantasy over the years, and finally acted on it.

Then there are people like myself who have low serotonin levels, or else their bodies can't process serotonin. If untreated, I can well understand how such a person could do what Paddock did. It's a condition that is invisible to everyone else, feels horrible all the time, even when a person is asleep, and the sufferer is hanging by a thread (of control and impulse-control) literally all the time.

There but for the grace of dog doo eye.

The real evidence show that HIGH, not low, serotonin, achieved by eating certain antidepressants (serotonin reuptake inhibitors), leads to violence, homicide, suicide -- http://www.supplemen...de-effects.html

Dunno what you've been reading, but that's bollocks.

When you look for statistics, don't just look for one crackpot site that seems to support one crackpot idea. Look at the overall studies (which takes time) in order to draw informed conclusions.
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#19 gsmonks

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

Saw a piece on CNN this afternoon about an extraordinary young man who ran towards the carnage and saved around 30 people, despite being shot in the neck. Amazing how some people shine at the darkest of times.
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#20 gsmonks

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:35 PM

View PostElara, on 04 October 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 04 October 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

I'm not advocating feeling anything for the shooter. What I am saying is that you can't stop something like this without understanding the person doing the shooting.

Even saying the cause is mental illness is a cop-out. Most people suffer at least a little mental illness at some time in their lives. Yet they weren't up there on the 32nd floor with an eye to mass murder.

You can't even point to a loss of impulse-control, because that's a momentary thing. This guy had months, perhaps years, to plan and prepare.

Pointing to evil is patent nonsense because evil is a religious idea with no basis in reality.

We can't even cite a lack of empathy, because few sociopaths actually kill people. Theirs is generally a matter of social dysfunction.

Then there are all the television-show-dog-whistle memes such as "overpowering rage", and other such nonsense. You can't have an utter lack of empathy and overbearing rage. I don't think rage was involved at all. I do, however, think that contempt was at the core of his actions.

One thing I took away from reading several books about serial killers is the contempt they had for their victims. Beyond that, despite the appearance of premeditation and planning, they were pretty much running on autopilot, their actions driven by a visceral compulsion that seems to be unique to persons like themselves.

In Paddock's case, I'd wager that he targeting people who were enjoying themselves specifically because he himself lacked the capacity to enjoy himself, probably because he was unable to access his own emotions. Having experienced that myself, for forty years, I can tell you from personal experience that that was the source of his contempt. Why should all those people be normal and happy when he couldn't? It's not fair. Now he's retired, with nothing to look forward to, with no normalcy in sight.

As I said, there but for the grace of dog doo eye. Give me serotonin reuptake inhibitors or give me death.

Basically, no matter we say, you will tell us we are avoiding the issue even though we aren't. But hey, anything to ignore yadda's request, while wagging your finger at us, as you lecture.

I never said anyone was avoiding the issue. I'm saying that those dealing with the issue (law 'n' order types, the media, various experts) are set in their ways in terms of assumptions, and to a large extent aren't even in the right ball-park.

Take the sniper and his nephew, for example. Wrong assumptions were flying willy-nilly all over the media. The "experts" were horning in with stuff they were absolutely certain was correct.

Certain law-enforcement types have been saying from the beginning that everyone else is wrong, that they know there are certain things that will turn up in their investigation. "It always turns out to be such-and-such" and other such platitudes keep being reiterated.

Dunno what it is about certain US law-enforcement types, but some of them are still in the Dark Ages in terms of objectivity and methodology, and the application of the Law as well.

Despite being told to "follow the evidence", all too many of them are making a mess of things by following their "gut". Some of them want to go after the shooter's "girlfriend", or whatever she is. I wouldn't wish that pack of vermin on my worst enemy. They're like a pack of rabid dogs. Some of them are 100% convinced Paddock was "radicalised" and that his girlfriend is involved, without a shred of evidence to that effect. Not the kind of people you want involved in law enforcement.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.


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