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Las Vegas Massacre (Politics Edition)


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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:29 PM

Alrighty then. I had originally planned on tapping out of OT, mainly due to my being tired of constantly battling with the Liberals here. In fact I had said as much, and had wished everyone well in their echo chamber, but then due to server issues, that post got deleted. On a purely ego trip, I like you think my leaving OT crashed the site, but like I said, that is pure ego on my part.

However, something happened this weekend. A gunman (I will NOT use his name) opened fire with a machine gun from an elevated position. The gunman's motives are unknown at this time. As is whether or not the bans the Left wants in place would've stopped this from happening. However, that has NOT stopped the Democrats from playing politics minutes and hours into this tragedy. The bodies were still warm, on the ground, when Hillary started her political tweets about it. And others like Warren soon followed up with inserting their politics into it.

I waited before posting because I was conflicted. Part of me felt it wouldn't be right to post, merely because of a tragedy, right after announcing EI could keep it's echo chamber. And another part of me was curious to see whether or not EI would show more class then the Democrats. For the most part they did, with an exception.

Yadda started a nice thread, honoring the fallen, and to his credit he kept politics out of it. However, it wasn't long before politics was inserted into what should've been a memorial thread for the fallen and their loved ones. So then the idea for this thread came to me. Since there are those who refuse to be decent, who have to insert their politics into tragedy, like Democrats and that now fired female a$$hole at CBS; who claimed she wasn't even sad because most likely the victims were Trump supporters.

So for those that are wanting to insert politics into a national tragedy, please do so in this thread. Leave the other thread alone for what it is suppose to be, a sympathy/memorial thread honoring those lost, and their loved ones.

Here, I'll even start it off for you, to make it easier.

Let's see, we have Democrats who have absolutely no class or morale code inserting politics into a national tragedy mere hours after it happened. As I said above, the bodies were still warm when they started their whole spiel about gun control. Hillary, who probably has never fired a weapon, targeted silencers. I guess she believes the movies, where silencers make the gun completely silent. Fact is that even with a silencer the gun can be heard, and is still loud, which is why when it's fired at a range they still use ear muffs (EVEN THOUGH IT'S SILENCED). because it is still extremely loud. Now with the noise of the concert it might've been harder to hear it, but they still would've heard it...especially once the music stopped.

Now we come to this a$$hole: http://www.foxnews.c...licans.amp.html

Yep, this person wins the a$$hole of the year award. CBS rightly fired her. And yet the Left claims those who lean toward the right are evil, that those who lean right always insert politics into tragedy, that those who were Trump supporters wouldn't accept the results of the election. Pot meet Kettle. Go figure.

So for those wanting to insert politics into this tragedy, here is your thread. And if my above comments seem harsh, well that's probably because I'm pissed. I'm pissed at the gunman for doing what he did, and I'm pissed at those who are using this tragedy for their own cheap political reasons. I'm pissed that a memorial/sympathy thread couldn't remain just that, that politics had to be inserted into it. So, you want politics in your tragedy, here you go. As you can tell, I'm fired up and promise to give as good as I get...so bring it on bitches, and leave the other thread for what's it's purpose was meant for.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#2 Elara

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:42 PM

Since my post was the first to mention anything political, I'd like to note that the only politics that I brought into the thread was to lay the tragedy at the feet of those at fault, meaning ALL of our so-called leaders. Why did I do that? Because I am tired of people being gunned down because our leaders will only stand by and blame each other or the poor or the immigrants, etc... when our leaders are the ones at fault. Sue me, I was angry.

As for your departing post, if you would like a copy, I have it saved because I was trying to post a reply to it when EI went down.

And last:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Alrighty then. I had originally planned on tapping out of OT, mainly due to my being tired of constantly battling with the Liberals here.

You keep calling us all Liberals. Once again, yadda, not a Liberal, gsmonks, not a Liberal, myself and others, not Liberal. No one is saying all Conservatives are always wrong and evil (okay, maybe gsmonks is, but not yadda, nor myself and others). I really wish you would stop making this assumption.
I am a Moderate, and I am one because I can see the good ideas of both parties. Unfortunately, they seldom use the good ideas, only the downright stupid/deadly ones. Basically, read my signature and remember the discussion you and I once had.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:20 PM

View PostElara, on 03 October 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Since my post was the first to mention anything political, I'd like to note that the only politics that I brought into the thread was to lay the tragedy at the feet of those at fault, meaning ALL of our so-called leaders. Why did I do that? Because I am tired of people being gunned down because our leaders will only stand by and blame each other or the poor or the immigrants, etc... when our leaders are the ones at fault. Sue me, I was angry.

As for your departing post, if you would like a copy, I have it saved because I was trying to post a reply to it when EI went down.

And last:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Alrighty then. I had originally planned on tapping out of OT, mainly due to my being tired of constantly battling with the Liberals here.

You keep calling us all Liberals. Once again, yadda, not a Liberal, gsmonks, not a Liberal, myself and others, not Liberal. No one is saying all Conservatives are always wrong and evil (okay, maybe gsmonks is, but not yadda, nor myself and others). I really wish you would stop making this assumption.
I am a Moderate, and I am one because I can see the good ideas of both parties. Unfortunately, they seldom use the good ideas, only the downright stupid/deadly ones. Basically, read my signature and remember the discussion you and I once had.

I was referring to gsmonks post. I didn't really consider your comments "Political". It was Gsmonks comments, and the sarcasm in them that came across as political to me. And you do have a point, regarding your line in your sig. BTW, could you use a different color for that line? The teal, or light blue, makes it hard to read. :)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#4 Elara

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:12 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

I was referring to gsmonks post. I didn't really consider your comments "Political". It was Gsmonks comments, and the sarcasm in them that came across as political to me. And you do have a point, regarding your line in your sig. BTW, could you use a different color for that line? The teal, or light blue, makes it hard to read. :)

Okay, sorry, I just figured since I mentioned politicians, that meant me. :)

Thanks, the signature never lies. :lol:  Sure, I'll figure out a different blue.

And I have no idea what happened to my ;) smiley when I mentioned your departing post. Ruins it to lose a smiley.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#5 sierraleone

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:22 PM

What is the difference between discussing policy and making it political to you LOTS? I know it gets fuzzy FAST, as people are, rightly or wrongly, going to point out how their opponent has blocked or is against their policy.

However, policy is how we formulate solutions to the problems we face as a society.
In this case to prevent this from happening as frequently or with such high casualty numbers.
You know the saying the first step to solving a problem is to admit there is a problem?
You also have to define the problem.
Everyone says people getting killed is bad, no disagreement there.
But there is no agreement on what is/are the causes that makes this such a frequent and high casualty problem in the U.S.
Some people would prefer to NEVER admit this is a problem. Even admit if they do some either don't think there is any solution that can change it, and/or they thinks thing should be kept the way they are regardless, even if it could save lives. Gun manufacturers would probably be in the latter category...

I read a WaPo article "I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise." So I do read things that challenge my p.o.v.

She was researching gun caused deaths in general, not mass shootings specifically. My problem with her analysis, was because there wasn't a magic one solution to gun deaths (or mass shootings), that it seemed we shouldn't do anything. That seems an odd way to go about it.

To prevent vehicular casualties we license people to drive (with different licenses for different vehicle types), we forced them to buy insurance and register their vehicles, we have road rules that drivers are to follow, we have vehicle safety standards, some places have seat-belt laws, and there are car-seat regulations and laws. None of that *eliminates* vehicular collisions and casualties. But certainly all these rules and regulations have saved lives.

She pointed out that
~67% of gun deaths each year are suicides. (Would better mental health access have saved some?)
~20% are young men (15-34 years) by other young men, often related to street violence and/or gangs. (Would better community support/programs have saved some?)
~5 U.S. women/day die from gun violence often due to domestic violence. (Would have restricting guns from those with domestic violence records help, as well as the legal justice system taking women and things like restraining orders seriously, have save some?).

Lets say better regulation (better access to mental health services, back-ground checks, etc) prevents just 5% of shooting deaths.
2016 there were about 15,000 deaths & 30,000 injuries. That is 750 people who don't die because of implementing policies to prevent gun deaths.

Or, as O'Reilly says, dying in mass shootings, "this is the price of freedom"?


You say that with a suppressor that the gun shots would still have been audible once the music was off. Are we sure about that? How many stories up again was the killer? 32 floors? While there was no obstruction to sound between the gun and the crowd, there was some distance.

Also, do you not think it is politics for pro-gun people to say "it is playing politics to talk about this now" and put off the conversation on policy and solutions, and they hope indefinately? They are basically silencing the other side. And mass shootings happen every day or two in the U.S. Probably most don't make the national news anymore. But there is always one recent.

LOTS, have you read about the pro-gun rights country performer there who has changed his mind on gun-rights? He was there, and he wrote about his change of heart.

Edited by sierraleone, 03 October 2017 - 08:28 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#6 sierraleone

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:35 PM

I saw this retort on-line to the don't politicize defence: if you get cancer of the worst and aggressive kind tell your doctor after the diagnosis that it's not the time to talk about treatment.

Also, it seems to some it is okay to politicize/policyize the same/next day if the shooter is say a Muslim terrorist....

Edited by sierraleone, 03 October 2017 - 08:38 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 gsmonks

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:46 PM

View PostElara, on 03 October 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Since my post was the first to mention anything political, I'd like to note that the only politics that I brought into the thread was to lay the tragedy at the feet of those at fault, meaning ALL of our so-called leaders. Why did I do that? Because I am tired of people being gunned down because our leaders will only stand by and blame each other or the poor or the immigrants, etc... when our leaders are the ones at fault. Sue me, I was angry.

As for your departing post, if you would like a copy, I have it saved because I was trying to post a reply to it when EI went down.

And last:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Alrighty then. I had originally planned on tapping out of OT, mainly due to my being tired of constantly battling with the Liberals here.

You keep calling us all Liberals. Once again, yadda, not a Liberal, gsmonks, not a Liberal, myself and others, not Liberal. No one is saying all Conservatives are always wrong and evil (okay, maybe gsmonks is, but not yadda, nor myself and others). I really wish you would stop making this assumption.
I am a Moderate, and I am one because I can see the good ideas of both parties. Unfortunately, they seldom use the good ideas, only the downright stupid/deadly ones. Basically, read my signature and remember the discussion you and I once had.

You not Moderate. You Watchdog. It say so under you avatar.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:59 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 03 October 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:


To prevent vehicular casualties we license people to drive (with different licenses for different vehicle types), we forced them to buy insurance and register their vehicles, we have road rules that drivers are to follow, we have vehicle safety standards, some places have seat-belt laws, and there are car-seat regulations and laws. None of that *eliminates* vehicular collisions and casualties. But certainly all these rules and regulations have saved lives.

The problem with your examples is the 2nd Amendment. There is no Amendment giving people the right to drive a car. There IS, however, one that allows people to have fire arms. But, say we ban all the guns...Ask the Native Americans how well their giving up their weapons worked for them.

Quote

Lets say better regulation (better access to mental health services, back-ground checks, etc) prevents just 5% of shooting deaths.
2016 there were about 15,000 deaths & 30,000 injuries. That is 750 people who don't die because of implementing policies to prevent gun deaths.

You're overlooking one critical fact here. Criminals do NOT obey laws. Period. It's the very definition of "criminal". What makes you think that by banning guns, of any kind, is going to stop a criminal. Banning weapons from law abiding citizens just means that only criminals, and police, will have the guns. I added in police because the cops will never give up THEIR guns.


Quote

You say that with a suppressor that the gun shots would still have been audible once the music was off. Are we sure about that? How many stories up again was the killer? 32 floors? While there was no obstruction to sound between the gun and the crowd, there was some distance.

On this, I honestly don't know. I've heard the sound of a silenced weapon at a range. It's still extremely loud. But that was a close distance. I have no idea whether or not the sound would travel down that distance. For sure it would've still been heard from the nearby rooms, especially that kind of automatic firing. Just not sure if it would be heard on the ground 32 stories down.

Quote

Also, do you not think it is politics for pro-gun people to say "it is playing politics to talk about this now" and put off the conversation on policy and solutions, and they hope indefinitely? They are basically silencing the other side. And mass shootings happen every day or two in the U.S. Probably most don't make the national news anymore. But there is always one recent.

I'm not saying put off the debate indefinitely. But there is such a thing as common decency. Well, then again, maybe there isn't.

Quote

LOTS, have you read about the pro-gun rights country performer there who has changed his mind on gun-rights? He was there, and he wrote about his change of heart.

No I haven't read anything from Jason Aldean.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:01 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 03 October 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

I saw this retort on-line to the don't politicize defence: if you get cancer of the worst and aggressive kind tell your doctor after the diagnosis that it's not the time to talk about treatment.

Interesting example.

Quote

Also, it seems to some it is okay to politicize/policyize the same/next day if the shooter is say a Muslim terrorist....

That is a fair and valid point.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#10 gsmonks

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:04 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:


I was referring to gsmonks post. I didn't really consider your comments "Political". It was Gsmonks comments, and the sarcasm in them that came across as political to me. And you do have a point, regarding your line in your sig. BTW, could you use a different color for that line? The teal, or light blue, makes it hard to read. :)

It's "gsmonks'" posts", not "gsmonks post".

You don't like my sarcasm that the gun laws are responsible for this massacre? H'm . . . you seem to be following the "let's not talk about the guns" meme. Let's talk about anything, just so long as there's no mention of guns and laws regulating them.

Well, it just doesn't work that way. This is a clear-cut matter of cause and effect. People are dead. Fully automatic weapons are the cause. The next step is making silencers legal and readily available. The effect will be a far higher body-count because people won't be able to hear where the bullets are coming from.

People like Stephen Paddock pay attention to things like prior body counts of prior mass-murderers. The numbers are being flashed on the screen 24/7  on one channel or another with the words "worst mass-shooting in US history" and variations thereof. H'm . . . almost 600 . . . how to kill more . . . how to kill more. Lots of guys have arsenals of guns far greater than Stephen Paddock, many of them with a military background, who better know how to use them. All one of them has to do is add a silencer to the mix, and a higher body-count will result.

Why am I using Stephen Paddock's name? Because it's important to see the all-too human face behind the crime. Fixing the problem will never be accomplished without coming to terms with the humanity of the shooter. Like it or not, it's part of the equation.

Not using the killer's name is on an equal footing with not talking about the problem and not dealing with it. Not using the killer's name is cowardly and dishonest. It's an act of burying your head in the sand and not dealing with a salient part of the problem.

It's part of an odd social phenomenon, where a person becomes an "it". Other examples are: a person become a "killer", a person becomes a "criminal", a person become a "monster", a person becomes "evil", and so on. The person become dehumanised, characterised as something "other". Something that is "not us".

That's just the problem. It is us. It's in all of us.

There's a bit of insanity built into our species to pretend otherwise.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#11 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:14 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 03 October 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:


You don't like my sarcasm that the gun laws are responsible for this massacre? H'm . . . you seem to be following the "let's not talk about the guns" meme. Let's talk about anything, just so long as there's no mention of guns and laws regulating them.

And how well is this ideology of tougher gun laws working in say Chicago? A city with the strictest gun control laws, yet still has the highest gun violence and deaths. But how is that possible you ask? They have strict gun control laws, there shouldn't be gun violence in Chicago when they have the toughest laws in the USA. See, I appreciate sarcasm just as much as you do, maybe even more. I just don't think it decent to be sarcastic about a tragedy like this.

Quote

Well, it just doesn't work that way. This is a clear-cut matter of cause and effect. People are dead. Fully automatic weapons are the cause. The next step is making silencers legal and readily available. The effect will be a far higher body-count because people won't be able to hear where the bullets are coming from.

Spoken like someone who has never heard the sound of a "silenced" weapon. Don't believe the movies. A silenced weapon is still damn loud.


Quote

Why am I using name? Because it's important to see the all-too human face behind the crime. Fixing the problem will never be accomplished without coming to terms with the humanity of the shooter. Like it or not, it's part of the equation.


Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. As for the shooter's humanity....Sorry, but anyone that does something like this left humanity behind. And to use their name only glorifies them. It makes them famous.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#12 Omega

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

I'm tired of people saying politics should be left out of tragedies. If politics have the ability to prevent future tragedies, we have a moral obligation to engage in politics to that end. Trying to do otherwise is just saying "I don't care to prevent tragedies."

#13 Omega

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:42 PM

Also tired of this "price of freedom" crap. What's the price of freedom from the threat of mass shootings? Because it's very possible we should consider paying it.

#14 Omega

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:52 PM

LotS, do  you ever notice how you use Chicago as a reference point pretty regularly? Ask yourself why that particular city. There are several others with higher rates of violent crime. Why do you (and many other so-called conservatives) have that particular brain bug? Who put it there? And what do they gain from it? And do you mind being purposefully infected with brain bugs? (Rhetorical question.)

Also, Chicago doesn't have strict gun control. Haven't since https://en.wikipedia...City_of_Chicago
http://www.politifac...hot-full-holes/
http://www.chicagotr...1003-story.html

Care to stop repeating lies?

#15 sierraleone

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:14 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 03 October 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

To prevent vehicular casualties we license people to drive (with different licenses for different vehicle types), we forced them to buy insurance and register their vehicles, we have road rules that drivers are to follow, we have vehicle safety standards, some places have seat-belt laws, and there are car-seat regulations and laws. None of that *eliminates* vehicular collisions and casualties. But certainly all these rules and regulations have saved lives.

The problem with your examples is the 2nd Amendment. There is no Amendment giving people the right to drive a car. There IS, however, one that allows people to have fire arms. But, say we ban all the guns...Ask the Native Americans how well their giving up their weapons worked for them.

I am sure there is no amendment giving people the right to walk, bike, or ride a horse either. Even if there were that does not mean there is unlimited right to do so, just like with any other amendment. And where did I say ban all guns?

Quote

You're overlooking one critical fact here. Criminals do NOT obey laws. Period. It's the very definition of "criminal". What makes you think that by banning guns, of any kind, is going to stop a criminal. Banning weapons from law abiding citizens just means that only criminals, and police, will have the guns. I added in police because the cops will never give up THEIR guns.

Emphasis mine. If I were the laughing-out-loud type of person I might crack a rib. First of all, before they break the law, criminals are obeying laws. And after they break the law they are obeying the law 99% of the time (granted ~33% of it is sleeping). Is breaking the law like a gate-way thing? As soon as criminal breaks the law they break every law at every opportunity possible? From traffic laws to property laws to assault laws, every time they are on the road, or within 10 feet of someone else's property or body?

Again I never said banning all guns, so most law-abiding citizens (possible excluding those with certain mental health histories) would be able to get guns if they wish. Maybe not grenade launchers granted, or large magazines…. But modern guns none-the-less.

It would deter *some* criminals (potential/budding or actual), because many will not have the connections/time/resources &/or money to obtain an illegal gun. Is not managing to deter some and saving some lives a worth while goal?

"Why bother making it illegal! Criminals will break the law anyways!" You do realize we only say this about one other type of crime. Drug-use. What other crimes do we say that about?

And, hey, aren't you a criminal? :p ;) I though at some point you said that you broke the law before.

Quote

LOTS, have you read about the pro-gun rights country performer there who has changed his mind on gun-rights? He was there, and he wrote about his change of heart.

It was Josh Abbott Band's Caleb Keeter (had to look him up himself, here is the WaPo article. It was more short twitter and Facebook posts.)

Edited by sierraleone, 03 October 2017 - 10:23 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#16 Elara

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:16 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

No I haven't read anything from Jason Aldean.

It was Caleb Keeter, not Jason Aldean.

~edit to say that I see sierraleone posted the name, I should have checked first. :)

View PostLord of the Sword, on 03 October 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Spoken like someone who has never heard the sound of a "silenced" weapon. Don't believe the movies. A silenced weapon is still damn loud.

Very true.

Which makes me wonder if anyone in the hotel reported the shots? I haven't come across anything on that.

Edited by Elara, 03 October 2017 - 10:18 PM.

El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#17 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:20 PM

^ I read a WaPo article where they spoke with a person 2 stories down from the shooter (and 1 room over), and that guy said the sound was so loud he thought it was coming from the hotel room next door….
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#18 Elara

Elara

    Feel the silence of the moonlight.

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:27 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 03 October 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

^ I read a WaPo article where they spoke with a person 2 stories down from the shooter (and 1 room over), and that guy said the sound was so loud he thought it was coming from the hotel room next door….

Of that, I have no doubt. Guns are loud. Speaking as one who has heard many types of guns being shot, each time is surprisingly loud. The loudest I have ever heard, was a sawed off shotgun.

When this was happening, I hope people called it in. The worst thing would be not knowing what to do. Stay in your room, or try to escape? Either way could mean getting shot.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#19 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:35 PM

Here is another WaPo article: Frantic switchboard calls, geometry of fire, led police to killer on Mandalay Bay's 32nd Floor
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#20 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:05 AM

You guys have obviously never heard silencers. They range from suppressors to real, effective silencers.

comme ça:


Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.


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