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President Trump's visit to Puerto Rico


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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:08 PM

https://www.reuters....t-idUSKCN1C80DO

*Heavy, heavy sigh*

You know, sometimes Trump makes it really hard to defend him. The boy really does, at times.

I fully understand and get what Trump was trying to do, with his whole "You've thrown our budget out of whack" comment, I really do. But when dealing with a community that has been literally destroyed by a Category 5 hurricane, maybe not the best idea to try and crack jokes about the cost of aide...just saying. And for that matter, since when has the US's budget not already been out of whack? When was the last time the US had a balanced budget and stuck to it?

And that press conference where Trump was praising PR's Governor for the Governor's praise of the USA's response....I don't know, maybe it's EI's anti trumpism rubbing off on me, but the PR mayor came across to me as somebody who was nervous that if he criticized Trump that the aide would suddenly stop. I could be completely wrong in that opinion, but that was my first impression upon seeing it.

And the whole tossing rolls of paper towels into the crowd? Who planned all this? Whoever it was needs to be fired. They should've had Trump actually handing out food and water, you know things people actually need more then paper towels. Whoever planned the optics of this trip need to be fired.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#2 Omega

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:41 PM

Very possibly Trump himself.

So yes.

#3 sierraleone

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:59 PM

I would hope you'd come to some realizations yourself regarding Trump over the last couple months (unless you are not surprised or bothered with anything he has done.)

Though I am sure if you think about it there are much worse things that could rub off of your fellow EIers than anti-Trumpism, I hope ;)

Did you see or hear any part of the San Jose Mayor's televised plea for aid last Fri(?), and Trump's twitter response?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#4 Elara

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:04 PM

Well, considering how long it took 45 to realize that Puerto Rico is a USA territory, everything makes sense.

I am not so sure about it actually being a joke. Was it also a joke when he said:

Quote

“The response and recovery effort probably has never been seen for something like this. This is an island surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.”

Was it a joke when he said:

Quote

“And in Florida, you got hit with the strongest winds ever recorded. It actually hit the Keys with a—it was a Category 5. I never even knew a Category 5 existed. And they suffered greatly,”

After hours earlier, saying this:

Quote

“Well, we've had bigger storms than this. And if you go back into the 1930s and the 1940s, and you take a look, we've had storms over the years that have been bigger than this.
“If you go back into the teens, you’ll see storms that were as big or bigger. So we did have two horrific storms, epic storms. But if you go back into the ’30s and ’40s, and you go back into the teens, you’ll see storms that were very similar and even bigger, OK?” he said.

I doubt he is joking when he says the things he says, I just don't believe he thinks, or bothers to think.

As for the mayor seeming nervous to you, considering 45, on twitter, attacked the mayor of San Juan, what could you expect? I have no doubt there was the nervous thought of: "Say nothing! Or we will get no aid from this president."

And the paper towels? Really, he thought that was a cute thing to do? After a disaster? "Here, all you people need are some paper towels. That will fix things up in a jiffy!" Yep, that moment was unbelievable.
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#5 gsmonks

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:41 AM

Rex Tillerson called Trump a moron.

He could be on to something. :)
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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:13 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 04 October 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:


Did you see or hear any part of the San Jose Mayor's televised plea for aid last Fri(?), and Trump's twitter response?

I heard about Trump's twitter response, and I heard about the Mayor's response to the department of State saying their response was a good thing story, or something like that, and with the Mayor responding.

Although it was reported the Mayor who had been criticizing Trump didn't really say anything during the meeting with him and the others. Not sure if she was under orders by the Governor, who looked scared if he said anything the aid would stop.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#7 sierraleone

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:30 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 08 October 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 04 October 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Did you see or hear any part of the San Jose Mayor's televised plea for aid last Fri(?), and Trump's twitter response?

I heard about Trump's twitter response, and I heard about the Mayor's response to the department of State saying their response was a good thing story, or something like that, and with the Mayor responding.

Although it was reported the Mayor who had been criticizing Trump didn't really say anything during the meeting with him and the others. Not sure if she was under orders by the Governor, who looked scared if he said anything the aid would stop.

And how do you react or feel about all of this?

That the President of the United States attacked the communities just after they became victims of a natural disaster? (he didn't just attack that mayor, though if he did that would not have made it okay).

That the President of the United States made these Americans, barely getting by after this disaster, feel fearful that a possible life-line to their communities will be frayed to a thread or worse, if they don't genuflect to him? Don't adore him and his administrations insufficient response?

And when the President and San Jose's mayor met I understand she did say something, something like "its about saving lives", but the President of course ignored her presence, like she was a bug on the bottom of his shoe or something.


I have a hard time imaging some Trump supporters being totally lost and disappointed over this... To be disappointed expectations must have gone unfulfilled. Sometimes people have expectations that do not commensurate with reality, but really, what were the expectations?

Edited by sierraleone, 09 October 2017 - 10:43 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#8 sierraleone

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:43 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 04 October 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

You know, sometimes Trump makes it really hard to defend him. The boy really does, at times.

What defense is left? That's just who he is? He's right but just goes about everything the wrong way? Trump supporters agree with him? That having:

discipline/self-control,
judgement/critical thinking,
self-awareness,
empathy,
and trust (self-promotion is *one* thing among many that takes away from that)

are not qualities some Americans not just do not require or desire, but do not need in a President?
Need in the figurative sense obviously because America has a President without these qualities now.

Edited by sierraleone, 09 October 2017 - 02:59 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 09 October 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 08 October 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 04 October 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Did you see or hear any part of the San Jose Mayor's televised plea for aid last Fri(?), and Trump's twitter response?

I heard about Trump's twitter response, and I heard about the Mayor's response to the department of State saying their response was a good thing story, or something like that, and with the Mayor responding.

Although it was reported the Mayor who had been criticizing Trump didn't really say anything during the meeting with him and the others. Not sure if she was under orders by the Governor, who looked scared if he said anything the aid would stop.

And how do you react or feel about all of this?



Honestly, I'm not sure. If I was trying to help out someone, or a group of people, and the leader of that group openly did what this Mayor did...My own personal response would be: "Well F U then, deal with it on your own." Now should that be a position the USA should take? I don't know.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#10 gsmonks

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

Two things about Puerto Rico.

No, make that three.

1) It's "pwair-toe ree-ko", not Port-o reek-o.

2) 45 didn't stay very long, and left early

3) He sure looked uncomfortable having to deal directly with crowds of people of colour. Usually he has his man send them to the back door to be dealt with by his cleaning staff.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#11 sierraleone

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:41 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 10 October 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm not sure. If I was trying to help out someone, or a group of people, and the leader of that group openly did what this Mayor did...My own personal response would be: "Well F U then, deal with it on your own." Now should that be a position the USA should take? I don't know.

What if you were the mayor, are you saying you wouldn't have done what she had done? I am really trying to figure out what you think the mayor did wrong, or what she could have done differently? As far as I understand:

- Her whole island, which she is the leader of the capital city of, was struck by a category five hurricane, which downed near all their infrastructure and power and ability to communicate, produce potable water and keep food from spoiling and keep medical equipment/medicines safe.
- She was trying to work with the applicable mainland government agencies for over a week, and kept getting stymied with bureaucracy as conditions worsened. It appears the U.S. did a better job with the Haiti earthquake.
- IIUC Took the government a week to lift restrictions on foreign ships (including aid) which they did near immediately for Texas and Florida.
- A acting head of one of those agencies called this "a good news story" despite the above. They were either out of touch with actual conditions and/or puffing up their inadequate work and/or putting an impossibly position spin on a bad news story.
- The major goes on tv, and I don't think it was specifically about the above point, she goes on tv begging for help, exclaiming that her people are dying and please anyone send more aid (it is only hyperbole when it is not applicable…. I think being without food or water or ways to distribute it counts). At one point she exclaims, twice close together(?), it is not a good news story (which is against what facts?). And this is after a week of being stymied when trying to get the amount of help needed by people who depend on her.

Lets say the mayor did got over some imagery line in dire circumstances…. And you don't know if the U.S. should just say F.U. to the American citizens needing help because their leader is vocal in trying to save them? No criticism of the U.S. government is allowed, even if is criticism of their neglect which is putting your life, or your fellow citizens' lives, into jeopardy?

Edited by sierraleone, 10 October 2017 - 04:03 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:13 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 10 October 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 10 October 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm not sure. If I was trying to help out someone, or a group of people, and the leader of that group openly did what this Mayor did...My own personal response would be: "Well F U then, deal with it on your own." Now should that be a position the USA should take? I don't know.

What if you were the mayor, are you saying you wouldn't have done what she had done? I am really trying to figure out what you think the mayor did wrong, or what she could have done differently? As far as I understand:

She should've handled it privately, gone through the proper channels, as opposed to playing politics in the media.

Quote

- Her whole island, which she is the leader of the capital city of, was struck by a category five hurricane, which downed near all their infrastructure and power and ability to communicate, produce potable water and keep food from spoiling and keep medical equipment/medicines safe.
- She was trying to work with the applicable mainland government agencies for over a week, and kept getting stymied with bureaucracy as conditions worsened. It appears the U.S. did a better job with the Haiti earthquake.
- IIUC Took the government a week to lift restrictions on foreign ships (including aid) which they did near immediately for Texas and Florida.
- A acting head of one of those agencies called this "a good news story" despite the above. They were either out of touch with actual conditions and/or puffing up their inadequate work and/or putting an impossibly position spin on a bad news story.
- The major goes on tv, and I don't think it was specifically about the above point, she goes on tv begging for help, exclaiming that her people are dying and please anyone send more aid (it is only hyperbole when it is not applicable…. I think being without food or water or ways to distribute it counts). At one point she exclaims, twice close together(?), it is not a good news story (which is against what facts?). And this is after a week of being stymied when trying to get the amount of help needed by people who depend on her.

So her solution is to go on TV and publicly pissed off the people she is trying to get aide from? You think pissing off the people you are seeking aide from is the way to get them to do what you want?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#13 sierraleone

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:57 AM

^ she had been handling it privately for a week, apparently that wasn't working.

Geeze, she was playing politics? How? Begging for life-giving-aid publicly, after doing so for a week privately wasn't working?

It is so much better when we can't hear about problems, especially in life and death situations I guess?

Do you feel the same way about the group Adapt that represents disabled people who were protesting cuts to Medicaid that they need to live? Sometimes it is impossible to not get political unless you are willing to suffer, possibly die, in silence.

Edited by sierraleone, 11 October 2017 - 04:17 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#14 sierraleone

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:02 AM

It is being reported now that people are dying due to lack of/unorganized aid to Puerto Rico.

People are dying due to lack of potable drinking water and lack of medical care.

They are drinking water from streams and contracting leptospirosis. This is a both a preventable and a treatable bacterial infection, but people are dying from it.

While the U.S.N.S. Comfort (a navy hospital ship) is in the port, has a capacity of some 700 beds, and has had less than a dozen patients.

Edited by sierraleone, 12 October 2017 - 05:36 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 gsmonks

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:24 PM

The math is simple. Puerto Rico is poor. Trump equates poor with loser. Trump hates "losers".

California is a different story. All those rich people losing their wine businesses is something he can relate to. No wine and cheese parties for a few years for some! The horror! The horror!
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#16 Elara

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 01:10 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 11 October 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

She should've handled it privately, gone through the proper channels, as opposed to playing politics in the media.

Begging for long overdue help is not "playing politics".

View PostLord of the Sword, on 11 October 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

So her solution is to go on TV and publicly pissed off the people she is trying to get aide from? You think pissing off the people you are seeking aide from is the way to get them to do what you want?

As sierraleone has stated, the Mayor tried for a week and got nothing. Let me ask you, LotS. You ask for help, your family is dying, but you basically are ignored. What do you do? Do you give a rat's behind who you "p*ss off" or do you do whatever you can to get the aide, even if that means embarrassing them into finally acting?
If I was in that Mayor's position, I would shout to every country in the world, telling them that my own country is leaving us to die. I would not care who was in office, wouldn't care if I voted for them, if they are F'ing up, they don't deserve respect. And face it, if Obama did what 45 did, you would be agreeing with me.

45 isn't difficult to defend, he is impossible to defend.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#17 gsmonks

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 03:46 AM

The death toll is now rising rapidly, for which 45 has no excuse. He may as well be killing them with his own hand.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#18 Norville

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:58 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 12 October 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

The math is simple. Puerto Rico is poor. Trump equates poor with loser. Trump hates "losers".

California is a different story. All those rich people losing their wine businesses is something he can relate to. No wine and cheese parties for a few years for some! The horror! The horror!

That may be how pmurT thinks about it, but it's not necessarily the case. I'm a lifelong Northern California resident, not directly affected by these week-long wildfires because they're in the county next door, and not everyone in this area is rich with a wine business. (Actually, I don't think pmurT cares about California at all, because he believes no one here voted for him. Which is also why there have been many vicious nuts online delighted that parts of the state are on fire and we all can go to hell.)

I don't think that the fire chief in a city next to mine, who lost his Santa Rosa house, is a rich guy throwing wine and cheese parties, but who knows...

The wineries provide a lot of employment in the area, so excuse anyone for caring about their survival, but I don't think we were only worried about them. Yeah, of course I'm going to be sad for things lost that have been in the area for years, but of course I'm going to care about people themselves. (I was talking to some evacuees at work and saw no need to tell anyone someone else had it worse, just asked how they were doing, expressed sadness if they'd lost everything, and told them to take care and be safe.)

I know that the Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa (housing a lot of Peanuts comic strip history) survived, but Schulz's widow lost their old house.

And I'm sure nothing else I could say matters. However, I do want to know something, and can't seem to get this information. Sonoma County officials decided not to send out mass alerts via cell phones about oncoming fires, not wanting to panic anyone who might not be affected, and the only alert they sent out was to people who'd subscribed to an alert system (and also the traditional way of sending deputies out to knock on doors and order evacuation). However, I, in a next-door county not directly affected by fires (except for a couple of days of hellishly smoky air) received a dozen emergency alerts about where evacuees could go in this county for shelter. A DOZEN. Despite my not being able to tell any evacuees much of anything those first couple of days, because their cell phone service had been so badly disrupted. What agency thought they were being clever? Because that was kind of brain-dead, and I want to understand the "reasoning."

*shakes head* Sorry, I'll go away again.

Edited by Norville, 16 October 2017 - 02:00 PM.

"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/


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