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The Russian Boomerang


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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 11:51 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...nton-links.html

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Corrupt politicians shouldn't throw out fake news against political opponents, cause it will come back and hit you in the face.

So apparently Hillary and the DNC paid for the fictional fusion dossier, in an attempt to damage Trump. Hillary got paid 145 million for giving Russia, Russia, Russia, 20 percent of our Uranium. Guess she wasn't really worried about Putin after all. And Special Prosecutor Mueller, who headed the FBI at the time, apparently knew about all this Russian corruption...and yet he is now in charge of trying to pin Russia on Trump???? Well, given that he had to know all the ins and outs of the corrupt deal, including all the bribery, extortion and what not, I guess who better to pin their corruption on Trump?

Sessions should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Uranium One deal.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#2 sierraleone

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:31 AM

I have no problem with the Uranium one stuff being investigated. Corruption is corruption, and if their is evidence of courrption it is worth investigating further.

The Trump-Russia allegations, if true, is corruption with a side of treason and a side of attempting to undermine American elections.

And no, the dossier is not a Clinton campaign equivalent to the Trump campaign-Russia collusion allegations.

https://www.washingt...m=.6b9562acefec

Edited by sierraleone, 26 October 2017 - 05:39 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#3 QueenTiye

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:45 PM

Yes, exactly.  I don't see why this is a "sides" issue at all.  If corruption is rotting at the foundation of government it should be rooted out - regardless of sides.

Maybe instead of "sides" people ought to give more thought to "principles" and measure their own "side" and the other "side" or better yet, individuals, without regard to sides, against their principles.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#4 Cait

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

I'm sorry, I find the timing on this very suspect.

I mean no one thinks it a little suspicious that suddenly we're talking about possible Hillary and DNC wrongs again, just as the Mueller investigation is heating up? No one thinks this might be the beginning of a campaign to paint whatever Mueller comes up with as an "everybody does it"?  No one???

Because I sure do. I'm going to find the timing of data drops and the rhetoric of Talk radio suspicious as we get closer and closer to indictments from the Mueller Investigation.

I agree all corruption should be rooted out regardless of political affiliation.  That is a no brainer.  But this smells and it is a strategy this administration uses all the time. The S/he did it too with the finger pointing is SOP for these guys.  Hard to believe it anymore.

And that is the danger of this kind of strategy in government.  It's the "boy who cried wolf" once too many times.  After a while, you don't believe anything that is said, regardless of how good the source is, because sources can be fooled with a data dump.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#5 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:13 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 26 October 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:


And no, the dossier is not a Clinton campaign equivalent to the Trump campaign-Russia collusion allegations.

https://www.washingt...m=.6b9562acefec

You're right, it's not in the same league. It's in a much worse league. Hillary's campaign ACTUALLY colluded with the Ukrainian Government, to hurt Trump's campaign. http://www.libertyhe...ian-government/

So Hillary and the DNC colluded with not one, but now apparently TWO foreign governments, in an attempt to win the election.

Also, bear in mind, if it turns out, as I expect it will, that the Mueller investigation was started BECAUSE of the fictional fusion dossier, then that is the ball game as they same. Any and all possible evidence would be inadmissible, since it would be coming from the fruit of the poisonous tree as it were. No court would allow that type of evidence in. Granted politicians, on both sides, rarely let the actual law get in their way.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:18 PM

And to be clear, yes corruption (no matter which side of the isle) should be rooted out, but in the real world it doesn't always work that way. Just look at the corruption that was in the IRS targeting of conservatives...Nobody, to date, has been held accountable. And by accountable I mean nobody has gone to jail, like they should have, for what they did.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#7 Cait

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:25 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 27 October 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 26 October 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

And no, the dossier is not a Clinton campaign equivalent to the Trump campaign-Russia collusion allegations.

https://www.washingt...m=.6b9562acefec

You're right, it's not in the same league. It's in a much worse league. Hillary's campaign ACTUALLY colluded with the Ukrainian Government, to hurt Trump's campaign. http://www.libertyhe...ian-government/

So Hillary and the DNC colluded with not one, but now apparently TWO foreign governments, in an attempt to win the election.

Also, bear in mind, if it turns out, as I expect it will, that the Mueller investigation was started BECAUSE of the fictional fusion dossier, then that is the ball game as they same. Any and all possible evidence would be inadmissible, since it would be coming from the fruit of the poisonous tree as it were. No court would allow that type of evidence in. Granted politicians, on both sides, rarely let the actual law get in their way.

Do you ever read a credible news source? I ask because you are so misinformed about current new and the law that my jaw actually dropped as I read this post.  LotS, you simply do not know what you are talking about.  Find a news source that actually reports news, and not opinion.  You'll do much better if you do.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

I'm familiar with the law. I'm also familiar with the fruit of the poisonous tree, and how evidence that comes from it gets tossed out.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#9 Cait

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 27 October 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm familiar with the law. I'm also familiar with the fruit of the poisonous tree, and how evidence that comes from it gets tossed out.

You do know the dossier is real don't you?  There is a dossier.  It's a real document. It's also true that some of it has been verified, and some has not, but that's how a lot of investigations go.  Steel was hired to investigate #45.  Let that sink in.

And, you do know that Meuller's investigation is not because of that dossier, don't you? Mueller's investigation was not begun because of that dossier.  So, your whole "law and order" "fruit of the poisonous tree" is BS. Let that sink in.

Sometimes, I can't believe how your mind puts things together.  Honest, step away from Fox News and Breitbart. You are being brainwashed.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#10 gsmonks

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 08:01 PM

Oh, looky! LoTS troll clickbait!

Nice try.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#11 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 02:16 AM

View PostCait, on 27 October 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

So, your whole "law and order" "fruit of the poisonous tree" is BS. Let that sink in.

Sometimes, I can't believe how your mind puts things together.  Honest, step away from Fox News and Breitbart. You are being brainwashed.

http://video.foxnews...1#sp=show-clips

And she is a former Judge. Now before anyone tries that whole "foxnews is brainwashing you, BS, bear in mind: I said it was the fruit of the poisonous tree days before this show's episode aired.

The democrat's defense of "Oh it was opposition research is BS. The FBI doesn't do opposition research. But, then again, the IRS wasn't suppose to target and discriminate against political opponents either. We saw how THAT turned out. The fact of the matter is that it IS fruit of the poisonous tree. Any evidence obtained isn't going to hold up in a court of law.

And as for my finding "credible sources"...Foxnews is far more credible than MSNBC, CNN, ABC, and NBC (and NBC tried to kill the whole Harvey Weinstein story...yeah, real credible news at NBC)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#12 sierraleone

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:52 AM

*and*, not *or*? You think Foxnews is *far* more credible than the other four news sources combined? Even you believing them being *far* more credible than one shows flaws in thinking.

Sure, they are probably much more credible than, say, Breitbart, and the like (incl whatever is on the left... like Shareblue Media?).

Being a judge doesn't necessarily make a person good, smart, logical, honest/credible, nor even understanding the constitution.... Just look at Roy Moore... Not saying the Fox former-judge personality is like him, just saying the automatic trust people often placed in people of authority is on occasion misplaced.

The fact that the GOP is silent on Roy Moore (or outright endorcing him!) speaks volumes.


ETA: also, isn't the fruit of the poisonous tree only applicable to law enforcement getting evidence unlawfully, that is violating someone's legal rights to get it (or paying someone to get it unlawfully). If so, how is the dossier fruit of the poisonous tree?

- from my phone.

Edited by sierraleone, 29 October 2017 - 07:14 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#13 Cait

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 11:09 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 29 October 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

The fact of the matter is that it IS fruit of the poisonous tree. Any evidence obtained isn't going to hold up in a court of law.

You are wrong.  There is no factual basis to claim that commissioning a dossier by the RNC or the DNC would then be the poison tree. You do not understand the law.

The dossier itself is a real document.  A real document that the FBI got possession of, and Comey warned #45 was out there. That dossier is NOT the basis of the investigation.  Get that through your head.  It is not the road map that led these investigations.

Flynn, Manafort, Kushner, et. al. are the road map. That's all Mueller needed to begin the investigation.  In other words the investigation would have inevitably discovered any and all evidence independently of that dossier. That dossier isn't the be all end all of anything.  In other words, it isn't the poisonous tree of anything, but nice try.

What does that dossier have to do with Flynn, Manafort, Kushner, et. al.? What does that dossier have to do with Russian connections during the campaign?  You see what I'm talking about here? Don't pin #45's freedom on  that dossier being declared inadmissible in a court of law, because it isn't the poison tree.  it's a dossier.

Plus, the rules of evidence in a courtroom in the US aren't the rules in an impeachment trial.  So, don't be disappointed when that dossier becomes just another Fox News talking point about nothing.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#14 Cait

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 11:20 AM

https://www.washingt...=nl_most&wpmm=1

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 04:13 PM

View PostCait, on 29 October 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on 29 October 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

The fact of the matter is that it IS fruit of the poisonous tree. Any evidence obtained isn't going to hold up in a court of law.

You are wrong.  There is no factual basis to claim that commissioning a dossier by the RNC or the DNC would then be the poison tree. You do not understand the law.

The dossier itself is a real document.  A real document that the FBI got possession of, and Comey warned #45 was out there. That dossier is NOT the basis of the investigation.  Get that through your head.  It is not the road map that led these investigations.

Flynn, Manafort, Kushner, et. al. are the road map. That's all Mueller needed to begin the investigation.  In other words the investigation would have inevitably discovered any and all evidence independently of that dossier. That dossier isn't the be all end all of anything.  In other words, it isn't the poisonous tree of anything, but nice try.

What does that dossier have to do with Flynn, Manafort, Kushner, et. al.? What does that dossier have to do with Russian connections during the campaign?  You see what I'm talking about here? Don't pin #45's freedom on  that dossier being declared inadmissible in a court of law, because it isn't the poison tree.  it's a dossier.

I'll take the word of a actual JUDGE over your opinion. I guess you didn't watch the clip I posted, where a former JUDGE outlined just how it was fruit of the poisonous tree.

Quote

Plus, the rules of evidence in a courtroom in the US aren't the rules in an impeachment trial.  So, don't be disappointed when that dossier becomes just another Fox News talking point about nothing.

If the Democrats and the Left want to start another Civil War, then all they have to do is pull the trigger on impeachment. All the voters who voted for Trump will see that act exactly for what it is: The Left silencing their vote, taking their vote away, saying their opinion doesn't matter. And if you think they'll sit by and just accept it, think again. The country will burn over something like that, and hey, maybe it's time for another civil war?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

View Postsierraleone, on 29 October 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:


Being a judge doesn't necessarily make a person good, smart, logical, honest/credible, nor even understanding the constitution....

Good point here. I mean just look at the Judges who blocked the Travel Ban. They're still trying to block the ban even though the one ruling the USSC handed down supported the ban. Guess some judges think THEY control US foreign policy.


Quote

ETA: also, isn't the fruit of the poisonous tree only applicable to law enforcement getting evidence unlawfully, that is violating someone's legal rights to get it (or paying someone to get it unlawfully). If so, how is the dossier fruit of the poisonous tree?

- from my phone.

Usually, yes. But that's exactly what starting an investigation based off of a fictional document is. It's the very definition of the fruit of the poisonous tree. It would be like a Detective interviewing a suspect, telling the suspect he's his court appointed lawyer, and then trying to use any evidence obtained that way.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#17 Cait

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 04:40 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 29 October 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

Usually, yes. But that's exactly what starting an investigation based off of a fictional document is. It's the very definition of the fruit of the poisonous tree. It would be like a Detective interviewing a suspect, telling the suspect he's his court appointed lawyer, and then trying to use any evidence obtained that way.

OK, you're just so wrong on all this.  It's just not worth discussing it.  Just follow that dossier down the rabbit hole, we'll see you when you come back from wonderland.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#18 Elara

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:28 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 29 October 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

If the Democrats and the Left want to start another Civil War, then all they have to do is pull the trigger on impeachment. All the voters who voted for Trump will see that act exactly for what it is: The Left silencing their vote, taking their vote away, saying their opinion doesn't matter. And if you think they'll sit by and just accept it, think again. The country will burn over something like that, and hey, maybe it's time for another civil war?

What?! So, when the Republicans wasted our taxes on the witch hunt to impeach Bill Clinton, the Democrats should have started a civil war because the Republicans were taking their vote away? Were silencing their vote?

By the way, ALL the 45 voters? Really? What is his approval rating now? I am sure that there are still some of the 45 voters that will be upset, you, but ALL? No.

As for FOX News being credible:

Quote

We'll have to agree to disagree. As long as HRC operates as a "shadow President", what she says carries relevance and weight.
— John Roberts (@johnrobertsFox) October 16, 2017

It seems that FOX News, and everyone associated with it, are a tad obsessed with her, to the point that they now suggest a "shadow" presidency. Yep, FOX News, the one to trust.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#19 gsmonks

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:39 AM

The "Russian boomerang" is about to klonk 45 on the head.

This type of trial goes in several parts. The first part deals with criminal activity. Criminal activity will in turn lead to charges for collusion. Being charged with collusion in turn leads to charges of treason, which can lead to the death penalty.

Collusion alone entails a sentence of 50 years. So whether 45 is shot or hanged for his crimes is almost irrelevant, as he'll otherwise die in jail, while his son and son-in-law will rot until they're his age.

Much as I'd like to see 45's pumpkin explode on national television, courtesy a 5-man firing squad, watching him rot in prison is almost as satisfying, if only for the purpose of sticking it to his Deplorables.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#20 sierraleone

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:28 AM

View PostElara, on 30 October 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:


As for FOX News being credible:

Quote

We'll have to agree to disagree. As long as HRC operates as a "shadow President", what she says carries relevance and weight.
John Roberts (@johnrobertsFox) October 16, 2017

It seems that FOX News, and everyone associated with it, are a tad obsessed with her, to the point that they now suggest a "shadow" presidency. Yep, FOX News, the one to trust.

I saw a recent clip with Corey Lewandowski on Fox & Friends where he said "Clinton administration" in reference to getting to the bottom of Hillary's corruption.... And he wasn't corrected by Fox.... There is no Hillary Clinton administration (& no chance he meant Bill) and that is not a g*d d*mn innocent minor mistake, especially when neither Corey nor Fox corrects it....

Edited by sierraleone, 30 October 2017 - 04:29 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


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