Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - S1, E9: "Into the Forest I Go"...


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,540 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

Bypassing Starfleet's orders, Lorca uses the U.S.S. Discovery crew's ultimate asset, the ship itself, in an effort to end the war with the Klingons once and for all.

#2 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,540 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

This is the last episode of this half of the season.

#3 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:16 PM

A bit more than half the season -- it's episode 9 out of 15. Interestingly, last week's episode was originally going to be the midseason "finale" -- I guess the idea was to leave us on a cliffhanger. Maybe tonight, we'll get some sense of why they changed their minds.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#4 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,540 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:59 PM

I know it is a bit more than exactky halfway... SUPERNATURAL airs 9 episodes in tge first "half" of its seasons, then does the other 14 after the holidays.  Episode 9 is still promoted as a 'mid-season finale'.  I'm just keeping it simple.

#5 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

I wasn't trying to correct you, just to segue into bringing up the fact that they added an episode.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#6 FarscapeOne

FarscapeOne
  • Islander
  • 3,540 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:15 PM

Ah, gotcha.

#7 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,251 posts

Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:59 PM

Holy cow - did anyone see this or has everyone called it quits on Discovery?

I thought this was a great episode. :welldone:

A lot here to lean into the Tyler as Voq theory.  But I found myself wanting to step away from that theory for a minute, as that theory gets in the way of relating to Tyler's personhood, and the violation he suffered, and the trauma we witnessed in the episode. Even if he's a sleeper agent - the him that he is right now, is deeply traumatized much like Boomer in Battlestar Galactica. It was hard to watch him suffering like that.

Not understanding entirely why Lorca is so protective over Burnham.  This seems to be at least 2 episodes long  - and I don't recall any explanation of it at all.

While the episode was outstanding - the cliffhanger isn't thrilling me.  It feels like we're about to get the 3rd iteration of the show...

One small bit of unbelievablilty for me - I just don't buy Stamets taking on all those jumps for "science".  And I don't get why another scientist couldn't be persuaded to voluteer for human experimentation to take the load off of Stamets - was there some sciencey explanation for this?

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#8 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:40 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 13 November 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

One small bit of unbelievablilty for me - I just don't buy Stamets taking on all those jumps for "science".  And I don't get why another scientist couldn't be persuaded to voluteer for human experimentation to take the load off of Stamets - was there some sciencey explanation for this?

Stamets is the only one capable of operating the spore drive, because he augmented himself with "tardigrade" DNA. There is nobody else who can do it. At least, not legally, since the Federation has laws against genetic engineering (though apparently cyborg augmentation is fine, judging from Airiam, the bridge officer with the robotic appearance).


I was unable to care about Tyler’s revelations about his alleged abuse at L’Rell’s hands, because arithmetic alone proves it’s untrue. He claims he was subject to her torments for 7 months, but we already know that L’Rell spent the first 6 of those months stuck on the sarcophagus ship with Voq. We’ve known that for weeks, but evidently the writers are hoping we’ve forgotten. At this point, it’s quite obvious that Tyler is a constructed personality, that Voq was surgically altered and neurologically reprogrammed to be a sleeper agent who doesn’t know he’s a sleeper agent. No doubt he remembers the surgery as torture, and Voq’s consensual relationship with L’Rell as Tyler’s sexual abuse by L’Rell. I just wish the writers hadn’t made it so obvious by inserting that chronological discrepancy.

Speaking of which, DSC’s writers have no sense of interstellar scale. There is no way that there should be two starbases (46, which the ship was ordered to at the start, and the one which Cornwell was shuttled to at the end, which I think was 88) within hours of the same uncharted star system. In the TOS era in particular, interstellar journeys are supposed to be a matter of days or weeks. One of the rules in the TOS writers’ bible was never to treat deep space as a local neighborhood. The only times TOS showed an interplanetary journey taking mere hours was when the planets were in the same system (e.g. “Elaan of Troyius”), or at least in closely adjacent systems (e.g. “The Galileo Seven” or “Metamorphosis”).

I also don't think the FX department does a very good job translating the ideas into plausible visuals. I mean, they portrayed the Ship of the Dead as cloaking... and then just hanging there in the same spot while Discovery jumped around it. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of a cloak? Then again, the prop department isn't much better -- if you're going to build sensors to hide clandestinely on an enemy ship, maybe don't give them bright lights and a voice interface???

The translator thing was odd, because I could swear that Klingons had translation capability during Enterprise, or at least had experience with Starfleet and other races using it. It doesn’t make sense that they’ve never come across the technology before.

As for the “lost in space” ending, Lorca & Stamets’s earlier discussion about parallel realities was a pretty blatant telegraph for where they’ve ended up. I just hope that Jonathan Frakes’s reference to the episode he directed (the next one, airing in January) involving the Mirror Universe was figurative or erroneous, though. Of all the parallel realities out there, it would be contrived if so many different Starfleet crews independently stumbled upon the same one. And I’m tired of Discovery stealing the Enterprise‘s thunder as the first ship to encounter various things (cloaks, Gorn, tribbles, time travel, etc.).
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#9 Jorgasnarova

Jorgasnarova
  • Islander
  • 534 posts

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

Your criticisms are certainly valid.

The absurdly loud and noisy sensors were ridiculous.

I liked how the communicators had a universal translator.  That ties into Roddenberry's 1964 outline for "The Cage."

Star Trek has seldom done a decent job depicting interstellar distances and travel times.  Warp 5, TOS Scale, is roughly three days to the light year.  Three hours would only carry you a few hundred astronomical units.  The ships move at the speed of plot, really.

#10 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

View PostJorgasnarova, on 13 November 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

I liked how the communicators had a universal translator.  That ties into Roddenberry's 1964 outline for "The Cage."

That was established back in Enterprise: "Civilization" in 2001. And it's a back-projection from the TNG era, where the combadge insignias had translators in them.


Quote

Star Trek has seldom done a decent job depicting interstellar distances and travel times.  Warp 5, TOS Scale, is roughly three days to the light year.  Three hours would only carry you a few hundred astronomical units.  The ships move at the speed of plot, really.

The published warp scales have never been remotely close to onscreen depictions of travel time, so I ignore them anyway. I'm talking about consistency with what's actually onscreen. TOS, as a rule, did not depict interstellar travel taking mere hours. It was important to Roddenberry that space travel not be portrayed as an easy commute, that the vastness of interstellar distances should be kept in mind. I suppose there were a few exceptions -- a particularly egregious case being "That Which Survives," which posited a journey of 990 light years taking less than 12 hours. But DSC is far too fond of portraying interstellar travel as a quick and casual thing.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#11 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,493 posts

Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:56 PM

I liked many of the character moments but thought the narrative construction relied on the Klingons being pretty dumb--those humongous, noisy, flashing sensors could be a metaphor of all the plot holes writ large. Also, the Pahvans should have been heard from again and we needed a Lorca/Cornwell/L'Rell moment after the rescue.

Tyler is sincerely suffering in his imposed persona and one feels for him. How will he react to regaining his memory of his true identity? I'm afraid we're in for some love-triangle nonsense with him, Burnham and L'Rell. I also don't understand, if the Voq imposture is the main plot twist of the first season, why they didn't hire some other actor to play Voq as Klingon and not telegraph the deception to anyone who checked out "Javid Iqbal" online.

I'm dreading the parallel universe relocation, even if it eases some of the canon concerns.
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#12 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:12 AM

View PostCardie, on 13 November 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

I'm dreading the parallel universe relocation, even if it eases some of the canon concerns.

Why assume it's permanent? It seems more likely that it'll just be someplace they're stuck for a week or two before they manage to get home. After all, there are some unresolved plot threads in the main universe. The war is still ongoing, I don't think Discovery has transmitted the cloak-piercing program yet, there's still the fallout with Lorca and Cornwell and her report to Starfleet to deal with, and I think Harry Mudd was slated to be in more than two episodes.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#13 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,493 posts

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:33 PM

I hope that they return. But going on the way Trek parallel universes have worked, another Harry Mudd could show up in another universe. I don't think we can be certain yet.
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#14 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,381 posts

Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:23 PM

View PostCardie, on 14 November 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I hope that they return. But going on the way Trek parallel universes have worked, another Harry Mudd could show up in another universe. I don't think we can be certain yet.

It just seems odd that you'd assume being stranded in a parallel universe permanently would be the default expectation. If anything, that would be the less likely option. If a show is about characters being stranded far from home as its ongoing status quo, that usually gets established within the first two hours (e.g. Quantum Leap, Voyager, Sliders, Stargate Universe), not introduced midway through the first season. If the midseason finale cliffhanger in a show about something else involves being stranded in a parallel dimension, then usually it's a problem that will be solved by the end of the next episode.

Most likely, it will set something up that will play a role in the resolution of the ongoing war arc. Sort of like how Dark Matter's parallel universe episode foreshadowed the coming corporate war in the main universe, gave the characters a working blink drive (an instantaneous jump drive not unlike spore drive, come to think of it) for use in later storylines, and allowed bringing several dead characters back to life. Stargate SG-1 did something similar in its first season with "There But for the Grace of God," where Daniel's trip to an alternate timeline let him experience an imminent alien invasion early and thus be forewarned when it came in the finale.

So maybe this isn't the Mirror Universe -- maybe it's a closer variant where the war has gone differently. Maybe it's going far worse for the Federation and we get to see the nightmare scenario realized, as in the above examples. Maybe it's going better for the Federation (as suggested by the Klingon wreckage) because they have some advantage that Discovery can learn of and bring back with them. And hey, here's a thought -- maybe Georgiou is still alive over there, and Burnham could achieve some sort of closure before returning home.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time

Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page


0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users