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Crisis On Earth-X

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#1 Virgil Vox

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:29 PM

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Barry Allen and Iris West's friends come to Central City for their wedding, only for the event to be disrupted by Nazi invaders from the parallel world Earth-X, including fascist doppelgängers of Barry's allies Oliver Queen and Kara Danvers, enemy Eobard Thawne, and other familiar heroes and villains, who come to Earth-1 with a deadly agenda. Oliver, Barry, Kara, and Sara Lance must unite and lead their teams to save the world. In addition, the superheroes from Earth-X, including Citizen Cold (a doppelgänger of Leonard Snart) and The Ray, also arrive to help them.

Like I did last year I am just making one big thread for this event. I think it is even more appropriate this year since apparently they went out of their way to make this feel like one giant movie.

I'm posting it now to remind people that the first two parts air on Monday and the last two parts air on Tuesday. I'm also posting it now because I've been bad about posting threads for my shows and want to get better at it.
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#2 RJDiogenes

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:18 PM

I hope I can find time to watch this.  It looks pretty good.
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#3 Sci-Fi Girl

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:20 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing a new Snart!  (Maybe we can keep him?? ;))

But, I looked through the promo pics, and the whole thing looks pretty amazing!  :cool:

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I mean, just look at these pictures ... I mean ... just ...

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#4 Christopher

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:33 PM

I'm really looking forward to this. The Arrowverse has become the most faithful live-action version of a comic-book universe ever, complete with crossovers and shared continuity. "Crisis on Earth-X" is essentially the equivalent of a limited series like Marvel's original Secret Wars. Plus it's in the grand tradition of a superhero wedding where all the heroes get together and get attacked by villains. And they're fighting Nazis, which is the most superhero-ey thing ever. (And timely in this day and age.)

My only regret is that a few characters aren't participating in the team-up. Only two Supergirl characters, Kara and Alex, are crossing over directly, though the publicity photos reveal the Earth-X doppelganger of at least one other cast member. I would've liked to see Martian Manhunter participate too, and to see the ultimate nerd team-up of Felicity, Cisco, and Winn. It's also a shame Diggle and Thea are in no condition to participate, though it's cool to see the rest of Team Arrow fully involved throughout. And it'd be neat if they could bring in the present-day Vixen so she can finally meet her grandmother. And as long as we're wishing, bring on Superman! (Although if they had both Supers and Martian Manhunter on the team, they'd kind of overpower everyone else.)

I think this'll be the first time we've seen White Canary and Black Canary II share the screen, though it stands to reason that Sara would've met and worked with Dinah during her 6 months back in Star City between seasons. I hope they get a moment or two together, though of course seeing Sara and Alex teaming up should be something to behold.

This will also be Zari's first meeting with the larger hero community, as well as the debut of her costume (much as Nate's Steel costume debuted in "Invasion!" last year). I wonder how she'll react to all of this.
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#5 Virgil Vox

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:46 PM

I ABSOLUTELY loved this. I feel like every year I keep saying that is the best cross-over and every year they keep topping themselves. I was literally cheering and laughing and going, "No!" throughout both episodes.

There is so much to unpack here and I'm sure I'll forget something.

My only complaint is that Reverse Flash is, well, Reverse Flash. I had just assumed he was the Earth-X evil Flash. I really don't like them bringing back Thawne again with literally no explanation. I like the character and he was a good villain but I feel like he has run his course at this point.

Oh, and I was disappointed that we didn't see the Ray in either of these episodes. I am really looking forward to his debut.

I wasn't sure how well they would stick to the concept that this was one giant cross-over with no clear delineation between TV shows but honestly you couldn't really point to these being Supergirl and Arrow episodes because they did such a good job of making it feel like one giant connected episode with all the heroes getting about the same amount of screen time.

That does make me wonder what will happen come DVD time. You can't really split these episodes up (though I thought the same thing about the Invasion! episodes last year) and I don't know if they will include all four episodes on all four DVD box sets,

The wedding fight scene was one for the ages. It was so glorious. All the heroes got a chance to shine. It was extremely well choreographed. I also liked that Wally pulled off some pretty great moves. I feel like he's been side-lined a lot this year on The Flash so it's cool he got a little moment there.

Nice seeing Captain Singh and his husband. I think this is the first time we've seen the husband on screen since season 1.

I love that Dr. Stein was going to give Jax super sticky powers. That whole exchange was great. It also warmed the heart that Jax's real problem is that he doesn't want to lose Stein. That old man has become a father to Jax and he can't bear to see him go.

Of course Alex and Sara would hit it off and have a one night stand. Totally loved it. I didn't see Alex wigging out like she did afterward, though. It's understandable. That kind of behavior is not typical of Alex at all and it has caused her to totally re-evaluate her decision to break it off with Maggie.

Supergirl, Arrow, and The Flash working together to save that building and the constructions workers was phenomenal. Those three have really become the trinity for the DC TV universe. They work so well together.

The Nazi costumes look so cool. I think Overgirl's costume is my favorite.

Very surprising that Overgirl and Dark Arrow are married.

Same with Prometheus being Tommy. I did not see that coming at all. It's just too bad he killed himself. It would have been fun having an evil Tommy running around.

I'm glad that the Nazis have another reason for invading this Earth other than just to invade. They need Supergirl's heart to save Overgirl. Obviously there is more to their plan but they at least have good motivation for why they are attacking now.

I wonder who the Fuhrer is and whether we will meet him in the cross-over?

I love the all metal Metallo.

The way the cross-over started was great. Dark Arrow kills a whole bunch of people, including Guardian, and then we switch and get introduced to our main heroes as they discuss whether they have RSVP'd to Barry and Iris's wedding.

I really thought Killer Frost had taken Dark Arrow out. She literally froze his bow and most of his arm. I expected her to shatter it pretty quickly. I didn't like how easily she was taken out.

Felicity and Iris are left to defend themselves in Nazi-occupied STAR Labs. I feel bad for those Nazis.

Felicity turning down Oliver's proposal was something I didn't see coming. I understand her reasoning but bad things will happen whether she and Oliver are married or not.

It's funny. I hated the Oliver/Felicity pairing back in seasons 3 and 4 because I felt that it demeaned Felicity's character and just created more drama than was needed. Now, however, I feel that the writers have corrected their mistakes and put the couple on a much better path and I wouldn't mind seeing them get married.

I wonder who the waitress was at the wedding who was taking to Barry. It has to be important to the plot in some way.

Cisco got taken out fairly easy. I guess they needed him out of the way to make it harder to rescue our trapped heroes on Earth-X?

I liked the cameo of Martian Manhunter and Mon-El but I wish they had been included more. This cross-over is definitely a step up when it comes to integrating Supergirl better but I would still love to see her supporting cast interact with the other supporting casts.

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I'm really looking forward to this. The Arrowverse has become the most faithful live-action version of a comic-book universe ever, complete with crossovers and shared continuity. "Crisis on Earth-X" is essentially the equivalent of a limited series like Marvel's original Secret Wars. Plus it's in the grand tradition of a superhero wedding where all the heroes get together and get attacked by villains. And they're fighting Nazis, which is the most superhero-ey thing ever. (And timely in this day and age.)

I totally agree. What I love about these shows is that they're not afraid to embrace their comic books roots. It's a reason why I've found it hard to get into the Netflix Marvel shows. They're all so dark and so intent on proving how serious they are and how they're not your typical comic book shows that they suck all the fun out of the fact that they are comic book shows.

The DC shows are better at balancing the light and dark and are better able to introduce things like a giant gorilla with mind control powers or time traveling Legends or hordes of invading aliens or magical imps.

More than any other cross-over, Crisis on Earth-X totally feels like a limited series in the vein of Secret Wars or Crisis on Infinite Earths or Infinite Crisis just like you said, Christopher.
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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 01:58 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 27 November 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:


My only complaint is that Reverse Flash is, well, Reverse Flash. I had just assumed he was the Earth-X evil Flash. I really don't like them bringing back Thawne again with literally no explanation. I like the character and he was a good villain but I feel like he has run his course at this point.

Completely agree. I was expecting this Reverse Flash to be Earth X's Thawne from the future, who came back and killed Barry. Having it be Earth 1's Thawne just makes no sense, not when that Thawne has been vaporized at least twice. It also made me wonder what happened to Earth X's Barry?

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Nice seeing Captain Singh and his husband. I think this is the first time we've seen the husband on screen since season 1.

Agreed. And seating Rory right next to them...priceless.

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Supergirl, Arrow, and The Flash working together to save that building and the constructions workers was phenomenal. Those three have really become the trinity for the DC TV universe. They work so well together.

Agreed, and I loved Oliver's line of: "Just so you know, Super speed, I don't have it." LOL.

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Same with Prometheus being Tommy. I did not see that coming at all. It's just too bad he killed himself. It would have been fun having an evil Tommy running around.

I so did not see THAT one coming. But I loved it.

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I'm glad that the Nazis have another reason for invading this Earth other than just to invade. They need Supergirl's heart to save Overgirl. Obviously there is more to their plan but they at least have good motivation for why they are attacking now.

While I was glad they had a better motive then just world conquest, it did raise one question: Why choose this Earth? There are 52 other Earth's they could've targeted. Not to mention, why wait til the wedding? If they were targeting Kara specifically, it would've been so much easier to attack her Earth, not when she is surrounded by the other heroes.

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I wonder who the Fuhrer is and whether we will meet him in the cross-over?

I was thinking it was Earth X's version of Superman. But not positive on that.

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I love the all metal Metallo.

I've been playing Injustice 2 game for awhile, so when I first saw him I thought it was Grid. LOL.

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I really thought Killer Frost had taken Dark Arrow out. She literally froze his bow and most of his arm. I expected her to shatter it pretty quickly. I didn't like how easily she was taken out.

That also irritated me.

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Felicity turning down Oliver's proposal was something I didn't see coming. I understand her reasoning but bad things will happen whether she and Oliver are married or not.

That felt a little forced and fake to me. It felt like the writers had her doing this solely for the purpose of generating drama between Felicity and Oliver, without a thought for how her bold declaration, not to mention Oliver's comment about her not loving him like he does her, is going to impact the Arrow team.

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I wonder who the waitress was at the wedding who was taking to Barry. It has to be important to the plot in some way.


Rumor is going around that she was one of Barry and Iris's children, one of the Tornado twins.



I also loved this cross over. At first I wasn't really feeling all the getting together, and hanging out, that was going on. But it worked. Although Kara's experience with the manicurist does raise the question of "How does Supergirl trim her nails, cut her hair, etc?"

Barry's line of "Yeah, I got nothing." after Kara tells him Mon El is married to someone else. LOL.

Best cameo of all was William Katt as the priest marrying Barry and Iris. Having the Greatest American Hero marrying Barry and Iris was brilliant, as was the Greatest American Hero getting vaporized like that.
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#7 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 02:07 AM

I also loved Kara's reaction to Oliver having a Kryptonite arrow. LOL. Although it then does beg the question of how he got it? So far there has been no mention of Earth 1's Superman or Supergirl, we don't even know if they exist on Earth 1? Because surely the other heroes would've heard about them, hell the whole planet would've heard about them by now. So if there is no kryptonians on Earth 1, then it stands to reason that there is no kryptonite on Earth 1 either. So where did Oliver get that arrow?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#8 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:11 AM

This is amazing. I didn't want it to stop -- I wish they'd shown all four hours back-to-back. Full-on crossover from the start, lots of character intermixing. So many huge, intense scenes in Part 1, both character-driven and action-driven. So many great lines. Kara singing "Running Home to You." And the surprise cameos. Guardian-X is Captain America and/or The Shield! Tommy Merlyn is Prometheus-X! And lots of big action sequences. I particularly appreciated the construction-site rescue sequence -- I always like a rescue scene better than a fight scene. Although it's hard to believe Green Arrow could help hold a building up just by wrapping a bunch of ziplines around the girders.

My main disappointment is that they didn't have the time, budget, or room to include even more. They keep having to contrive ways to leave people out, like Wally taking Joe and Cecile to safety at the end of part 1, or Cisco being knocked out in part 2, or the rest of the Legends just haring off to the Stone Age offscreen for no clear reason. The biggest oversight so far is that they haven't addressed Sara's reaction to Thawne's latest, inexplicable return. At this point, he's as much her archnemesis as the Flash's.

But it was a nice surprise when Team Arrow showed up to fight Dark Arrow. "They wanted to wait, but I don't think we've ever had a better intro line." And it looks like they'll be playing an important role tomorrow.

And we sure got what many of us were hoping for with Sara and Alex -- and then some. Heck, I was expecting them to flirt for four episodes and maybe share a kiss at the end. I was dreaming too small. You know, the previews had gotten me thinking about how similar Sara and Alex were -- both badass warrior women with no superpowers but unstoppable fighting skills, and both into other women, of course -- but what's impressive is that pairing them off has revealed how much they aren't the same, with Alex being much more insecure about her sex life and her identity. It shows how good the character writing is on these shows, that bringing together the two most similar characters was an opportunity to explore their differences.

The bit about Overgirl dying from flying too close to the Sun was a nice nod to Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's All-Star Superman. But the question is, how did Overgirl fly close to the Sun? Supergirl's first-season finale established that Kryptonians can't fly in space without an atmosphere to push against. But maybe Overgirl was in her Kryptonian pod at the time? Which raises the next question -- Why was she flying near the Sun? How does that benefit the Fatherland or the Reich or the Fuhrer?

Is Part 2 the first Arrow episode (technically) that takes place entirely in Central City (aside from the tag scene on Earth-X)?



View PostVirgil Vox, on 27 November 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:

My only complaint is that Reverse Flash is, well, Reverse Flash. I had just assumed he was the Earth-X evil Flash. I really don't like them bringing back Thawne again with literally no explanation. I like the character and he was a good villain but I feel like he has run his course at this point.

"Run his course" -- heh.

Anyway, maybe we'll get more of an explanation if and when we finally get a scene between him and Sara or the other Legends. Although it is a bit arbitrary that he decided to go back to Wells's face for no good reason -- I guess they just couldn't get Matt Letscher, or didn't want to spend money on one more guest star when they could just use one of their regulars.



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Very surprising that Overgirl and Dark Arrow are married.

I wonder how that can even work. Kind of a "Woman of Steel, Man of Kleenex" situation there. I know they touched on that issue in Supergirl's first season, but I don't recall if Kara's ever been intimate with anyone other than Mon-El.



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I wonder who the Fuhrer is and whether we will meet him in the cross-over?

Two guesses: either it'll be some surprise doppelganger of an Arrowverse character (Damien Darhk? Malcolm Merlyn? Martin Stein?), or they'll drop hints implying that it's Trump.



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I love the all metal Metallo.

Who spoke in a female voice, it sounded like. Will we get another surprise revelation of her identity?



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I really thought Killer Frost had taken Dark Arrow out. She literally froze his bow and most of his arm. I expected her to shatter it pretty quickly. I didn't like how easily she was taken out.

It seems that, despite her sobriquet, Frost has been toning down her lethality lately, particularly since she and Caitlin came to terms in "Girls' Night Out." Although you'd think that when it came to fighting Nazis, she wouldn't have held back.

Also, it's not like she touched his bare skin. She probably just froze his glove and sleeve. His costume probably provides a lot of protection.



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Felicity and Iris are left to defend themselves in Nazi-occupied STAR Labs. I feel bad for those Nazis.

Heh. That sounds like the cover text on a comics issue...



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Felicity turning down Oliver's proposal was something I didn't see coming. I understand her reasoning but bad things will happen whether she and Oliver are married or not.

It would've been nice to see a double wedding, but it's good that each couple has its own distinct dynamic. Although there's still a chance that Felicity could change her mind by the end of the crossover...


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I wonder who the waitress was at the wedding who was taking to Barry. It has to be important to the plot in some way.

My guess:
Spoiler



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Cisco got taken out fairly easy. I guess they needed him out of the way to make it harder to rescue our trapped heroes on Earth-X?

The production schedules could only accommodate so many actors at a time. It reportedly took six weeks to film this, and they had to do it at the same time that they were filming other episodes of the individual shows. That's why all four shows have been doing episodes that diminished their lead actors' presence -- Supergirl's extended flashback to teenage Kara and Alex in "Midvale," The Flash doing the Barry-lite "Girls' Night Out" (and the FX-lite "Therefore I Am," presumably to clear up the FX team's schedule and budget for the crossover), Legends putting Sara in a coma for most of "Welcome to the Jungle," and Arrow doing two episodes' worth of Deathstroke flashbacks to reduce Oliver's screen time. It follows that the crossover itself would need to free up some of its cast members so they could work on the other shows.



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I totally agree. What I love about these shows is that they're not afraid to embrace their comic books roots. It's a reason why I've found it hard to get into the Netflix Marvel shows. They're all so dark and so intent on proving how serious they are and how they're not your typical comic book shows that they suck all the fun out of the fact that they are comic book shows.

The DC shows are better at balancing the light and dark and are better able to introduce things like a giant gorilla with mind control powers or time traveling Legends or hordes of invading aliens or magical imps.

I think there's room for both approaches, and I'm glad the two are different from each other. Marvel TV has had a weak year with Iron Fist and Inhumans, but for the most part they do well in their own way. I just wish that somebody other than Berlanti Productions could figure out how to make a good DC show, rather than saddling us with stuff like Gotham and Powerless.
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#9 Cybersnark

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:24 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 28 November 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:

So far there has been no mention of Earth 1's Superman or Supergirl, we don't even know if they exist on Earth 1? Because surely the other heroes would've heard about them, hell the whole planet would've heard about them by now. So if there is no kryptonians on Earth 1, then it stands to reason that there is no kryptonite on Earth 1 either. So where did Oliver get that arrow?
Actually, one of the unnoticed bombshells dropped in this episode came from Harry, who confirmed that each of the 53 universes has their own Krypton --including Earth-1. It's possible that Earth-1 Clark Kent simply hasn't begun his superheroic career yet.

View PostChristopher, on 28 November 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

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I wonder who the Fuhrer is and whether we will meet him in the cross-over?

Two guesses: either it'll be some surprise doppelganger of an Arrowverse character (Damien Darhk? Malcolm Merlyn? Martin Stein?), or they'll drop hints implying that it's Trump.
The logical figure would be Kal-El himself; who better to run the Reich than the actual Ubermensch?

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I wonder who the waitress was at the wedding who was taking to Barry. It has to be important to the plot in some way.

My guess:
Spoiler
Spoiler

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#10 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:39 PM

View PostCybersnark, on 28 November 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Actually, one of the unnoticed bombshells dropped in this episode came from Harry, who confirmed that each of the 53 universes has their own Krypton --including Earth-1. It's possible that Earth-1 Clark Kent simply hasn't begun his superheroic career yet.

Or, Krypton-1 never exploded and Kal-El and Kara are living out their lives there as regular people. Though that would make it harder to explain Ollie's kryptonite.


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View PostChristopher, on 28 November 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

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I wonder who the Fuhrer is and whether we will meet him in the cross-over?

Two guesses: either it'll be some surprise doppelganger of an Arrowverse character (Damien Darhk? Malcolm Merlyn? Martin Stein?), or they'll drop hints implying that it's Trump.
The logical figure would be Kal-El himself; who better to run the Reich than the actual Ubermensch?

Oh, that would be an even better surprise guest than Colin Donnell.

Anyway, I kinda love it that even the actual Nazis from a Nazi-ruled Earth think that Hitler was a loser.
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#11 Lambsilencer

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 03:34 PM

This crossover was, so far, one hell of a ride. It had everything one could hope for in such an event. The tone was perfect. The first hour had so much to laugh about and just having fun with. The interactions between all the characters always felt organic. One could feel that they know each other pretty well, probably, over all those sets.

I wonder if this is the biggest crossover event ever done for American TV. Four shows, so many characters in all of them - and in one story. Might be a record. And a great one, so far.

Alex hooking up with Sara was definitely out-of-character for her, and maybe the beginning of a self-destructing arc coming up ahead - one that even Supergirl is powerless against.

Kara singing at the Wedding interruptus - priceless. Melissa Benoist has a truly lovely voice.

Mick and his one-liners, I could listen to them forever. I loved how furious Caitlin got about him and his avances. But I think the team-up of Mick and Killer Frost could be a boatload of fun. I'd surely watch a spinoff with those two. Here's hoping they get to do more together in the second half.

Oliver's line about not having super-speed pretty much sums up the fact that Oliver told Kara last year, about her making him and his team pretty much obsolete if she'd ever come to Star City, although I would very much like to see a true "Arrow"/"Supergirl" crossover, like it is done with "The Flash" sometimes. I'd love to have the two have a few scenes together where they talk about how different their worlds are - and still so similar. I expected it to happen after the two met their evil counterparts. Could have been an interesting conversation.

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The production schedules could only accommodate so many actors at a time. It reportedly took six weeks to film this, and they had to do it at the same time that they were filming other episodes of the individual shows. That's why all four shows have been doing episodes that diminished their lead actors' presence -- Supergirl's extended flashback to teenage Kara and Alex in "Midvale," The Flash doing the Barry-lite "Girls' Night Out" (and the FX-lite "Therefore I Am," presumably to clear up the FX team's schedule and budget for the crossover), Legends putting Sara in a coma for most of "Welcome to the Jungle," and Arrow doing two episodes' worth of Deathstroke flashbacks to reduce Oliver's screen time. It follows that the crossover itself would need to free up some of its cast members so they could work on the other shows.

Perfectly summed up, Christopher. Especially the workload of Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist was immense here, with their heavily-featured double roles. I was wondering how they pulled it off with both of them having only one episode where they were featured really lightly. They must have not gotten much sleep over those weeks, I guess. And, to be honest, putting all those characters in every episode or featuring them more prominently would have been over-crowding and convoluting the episodes. And I'd rather have them not appearing than them being diminished to  glorified extras.

It's also cool that they have four directors for the individual episodes, which still gives every episode a distinct feel. They chose Larry Teng, who did many "Supergirl" episodes. James Bamford, who is the fight and stunt coordinator on "Arrow", did the "Arrow" part, and he is very good at doing long takes with a moving camera during the fight scenes. Dermott Downs, who also did a few "Supergirl" episodes, will direct the "Flash" part, and Gregory Smith, who is as good a director as he is an actor, will be putting the crossover to bed with the "Legends" segment. I feared that they would give Kevin Smith the whole thing, so they'd have a "cinema director" helming it all. But while he is a great director and has done terrific work on several episodes ("The Flash"s "Killer Frost" comes to mind, but he would not be the right man for all the aspects of the crossover. Having more than one director surely was a logistical decision foremost. But it also benefits the different aspects of the story.

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#12 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 04:02 PM

View PostLambsilencer, on 28 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

This crossover was, so far, one hell of a ride. It had everything one could hope for in such an event. The tone was perfect. The first hour had so much to laugh about and just having fun with. The interactions between all the characters always felt organic. One could feel that they know each other pretty well, probably, over all those sets.

You'd think so, but here's Danielle Panabaker:

Quote

“Although, there was a surreal moment during filming the crossover,” she continued. “We were on our stages, we were on Flash stages, but we were on a different show. I think I was on Legends, and so there’s actors from Legends, Flash, I think Supergirl, and people from Arrow were coming in. And people from Arrow were meeting people from Legends for the first time and it was very surreal for me to be like, ‘Wait, you guys don’t already know each other?’ It was very odd to me.
https://www.cbr.com/...erse-crossover/


Quote

I wonder if this is the biggest crossover event ever done for American TV. Four shows, so many characters in all of them - and in one story. Might be a record. And a great one, so far.

Bigger than The Defenders, that's for sure. Let's see, that had about 16 main or supporting characters from other Marvel Netflix shows: Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Claire Temple, Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, Stick, Father Lantom, Trish Walker, Malcolm Ducasse, Jeri Hogarth, Misty Knight, Colleen Wing, Elektra, Bakuto, Madame Gao, Turk Barrett, plus Foggy's girlfriend, bar owner Josie, and Trish's intern.

Whereas "Crisis" has, just in the first two episodes: Supergirl, Alex, J'onn, Winn, Mon-El; Flash, Vibe, Killer Frost, Kid Flash, Iris, Harry, Joe, Cecile, Singh; Green Arrow, Felicity, Mr. Terrific, Black Canary, Wild Dog; White Canary, Heat Wave, Jax, Martin Stein, Lily Stein, Clarissa Stein; Earth-X Guardian, Tommy Merlyn, and Metallo; and Reverse Flash. Not counting the doppelgangers of Oliver and Kara, that's 29 returning characters so far. And publicity photos, art, and previews show at least 10 additional characters, including the rest of the Legends.

Could this perhaps be the biggest live-action crossover in any nation's TV? I mean, the only other comparable thing I can think of is Doctor Who's "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End," which united the casts of Doctor Who, Torchwood, and The Sarah Jane Adventures, but it didn't bring that many characters together -- only about 14 or 15 returning characters, close to The Defenders.


Quote

Alex hooking up with Sara was definitely out-of-character for her, and maybe the beginning of a self-destructing arc coming up ahead - one that even Supergirl is powerless against.

I'd bet that Sara is going to help Alex come to terms with it and learn not to worry about it so much.



Quote

Mick and his one-liners, I could listen to them forever.

"Well, I've tried to kill the groom a couple of times, so let's go with the bride's side."
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#13 Lambsilencer

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 04:22 PM

View PostChristopher, on 28 November 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

View PostLambsilencer, on 28 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

This crossover was, so far, one hell of a ride. It had everything one could hope for in such an event. The tone was perfect. The first hour had so much to laugh about and just having fun with. The interactions between all the characters always felt organic. One could feel that they know each other pretty well, probably, over all those sets.

You'd think so, but here's Danielle Panabaker:

Quote

“Although, there was a surreal moment during filming the crossover,” she continued. “We were on our stages, we were on Flash stages, but we were on a different show. I think I was on Legends, and so there’s actors from Legends, Flash, I think Supergirl, and people from Arrow were coming in. And people from Arrow were meeting people from Legends for the first time and it was very surreal for me to be like, ‘Wait, you guys don’t already know each other?’ It was very odd to me.
https://www.cbr.com/...erse-crossover/

Ah, interesting, thanks for that. Nice that she hints at more for Mick and Killer Frost. Fun times.


Quote

Quote

Alex hooking up with Sara was definitely out-of-character for her, and maybe the beginning of a self-destructing arc coming up ahead - one that even Supergirl is powerless against.

I'd bet that Sara is going to help Alex come to terms with it and learn not to worry about it so much.

That could be. But since Supegirl got more serious and a bit darker for its current season (hence the simpler, black-er opening credit screen and the less euphoric theme), I wonder if they go the other route which I mentioned above.

Quote

Quote

Mick and his one-liners, I could listen to them forever.

"Well, I've tried to kill the groom a couple of times, so let's go with the bride's side."

"It's about to get a lot colder in here."

Greets
Lambsilencer

Edited by Lambsilencer, 28 November 2017 - 04:22 PM.


#14 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

View PostLambsilencer, on 28 November 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

That could be. But since Supegirl got more serious and a bit darker for its current season (hence the simpler, black-er opening credit screen and the less euphoric theme), I wonder if they go the other route which I mentioned above.

I'm hoping that "darker" theme doesn't last all season, that we see some brightening as we go, both literally (in the title card) and figuratively. We just had a whole season of The Flash that was dark and brooding, and it wasn't a good fit.


Anyway, now I'm wondering what they can do next year to follow this up. Should they attempt to try to top it, or just shift gears and do a crossover on a smaller scale, maybe something more character-driven? I think that when series try to top themselves over and over, there's a point of diminishing returns. But on the other hand, I kinda would like to see an even bigger crossover -- something that brings Teams Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and Legends together with Black Lightning, maybe. And ideally maybe Constantine, Vixen, and the Ray too. And then they all end up in Riverdale! :D
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#15 Lambsilencer

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:17 PM

^^ Agreed. I like it when shows get a bit darker and more serious sometimes. But yes, they should find their way back to brightness at some point. There's enough darkness in the real world.

I think that trying to top it will be hard. Expanding the scope of the crossover to even more shows doesn't seem a good idea to me, as things might start to fall apart at the seams at some point. I can see something equally big, or maybe, do two or three crossovers over the season, but smaller ones, not involving all the shows every time. Like I mentioned before, I would love to see a crossover between "Arrow" and "Supergirl", with Kara coming to Star City for a change to help Team Arrow - exactly because that combination is tricky to pull off. It would be nice to see Kara maybe finding out that having her powers is sometimes not the best approach, and Team Arrow having an advantage over her, with their more human skills.

We already had "The Flash"/"Supergirl" and "The Flash"/"Arrow". And "Legends of Tomorrow" is so all over the place (but in a good way) that they occasionally have characters from other shows appearing in various stages of their existence in the Verse.

So, definitely a crossover between "Arrow" and "Supergirl", and then maybe "The Flash" and "Legends". The possibilities are endless, really.

Greets
Lambsilencer

#16 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:40 PM

View PostLambsilencer, on 28 November 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

I think that trying to top it will be hard. Expanding the scope of the crossover to even more shows doesn't seem a good idea to me, as things might start to fall apart at the seams at some point. I can see something equally big, or maybe, do two or three crossovers over the season, but smaller ones, not involving all the shows every time.

That's an interesting thought. Not one huge crossover, but several smaller ones spaced out over the season, maybe 2 or 3 shows' casts mixing. Or just more intermingling throughout the season, stuff like Felicity coming to town for the bachelorette party or the Legends calling up Curtis to ask about Oliver's fingerprint on the watch.

Or maybe a seasonal arc where all the respective teams' big bads turn out to be working together, or working for the same superior, so that the individual story arcs are gradually revealed to be affecting each other, with the teams communicating more and more as they become aware of the common threat. Hard to see how that could involve Supergirl, though.


Quote

Like I mentioned before, I would love to see a crossover between "Arrow" and "Supergirl", with Kara coming to Star City for a change to help Team Arrow - exactly because that combination is tricky to pull off. It would be nice to see Kara maybe finding out that having her powers is sometimes not the best approach, and Team Arrow having an advantage over her, with their more human skills.

Or maybe Kara asks Oliver and Felicity to come to National City and give Guardian and Winn some vigilante training.

Honestly, I'd like to see a proper Supergirl-Guardian team-up before we get Supergirl-Green Arrow. It's weird that they've so rarely worked together even though Kara seems to have come to terms with his crimefighting. Except they seem to be downplaying the whole Guardian thing this season.


One idea I've had for a four-way crossover, more like "Invasion!" than this fully integrated thing, is a chase through the multiverse. Maybe a villain causes trouble for Supergirl, then flees to Earth-2 for the Flash segment with Supergirl and J'onn in pursuit (which would let us see Jesse Quick's version of Team Flash partnering with the Earth-1 version), then jumps through time so they have to call in the Legends to continue the chase, and then somehow it all ends up in Star City for the big finish. (Or maybe move Arrow to Monday again and have the Earth-1 part come second.) So it builds up gradually, with more heroes teamed up in each part.
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#17 QueenTiye

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:47 PM

Or maybe it's ok NOT to have a cross over every year - I would rather they don't do something than to do something JUST to do it.

I'm halfway through part 4 and I have to say - this has been the most amazing 3 1/2 hours of television in a long while.  They shouldn't do it again unless they can do it again.Q

QT

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#18 Christopher

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:47 PM

I've been noticing how much they relied on "bottle show" techniques to make this production affordable. Huge amounts of it are shot on the shows' standing sets -- mostly STAR Labs, but also the Team Arrow Bunker (as itself and the Earth-X resistance bunker) and the Waverider in Part 4 (and its evil twin, which I think was maybe the Wellenreiter?). But they did build one pretty massive new set, the church interior from Part 1.

The introduction of the Ray was rather cursory, like they cut out a lot of exposition. Just one throwaway line about him being from Earth-1 is all we get? We don't even get his full name until Part 4. Also, since when did everyone in the multiverse agree that Ollie & Barry's Earth is Earth-1? When we first met Harry back in The Flash season 2, he said that he thought of his Earth (Earth-2) as Earth-1.

I found the pacing in Part 3 kind of clumsy -- it's the weakest part of the whole. And it's still frustrating how many of the characters were captive or absent.

But Part 4 was much more powerful. You know, I've been idly wondering for a few weeks if they were planning to kill Stein off -- after all, they've done so much to set up the expectation that he'd go back home that it almost feels like they were preparing to subvert that expectation by going the more dramatic and permanent route. Since that was their plan, it's fitting that they did it in the crossover, because it raised the stakes of the climactic battle.

Anyway, how did the Nazis get an evil Waverider? I guess that's more of Thawne's handiwork.

Great to see Felicity as the one standing up to Fuhrer Arrow and telling the Nazis, in the name of her grandparents who survived the Holocaust, to get the hell off our planet. And it's always a touching moment when a normal human with no powers steps in front of an invulnerable superhero and says "You'll have to go through me first." Incredibly unwise and probably futile, but touching.

The Atom had a pretty nifty entrance. It was a long wait, but it was worth it. And he made a Ms. Marvel reference! A giant hand and "it embiggens"! Yay! Between that, Kara's Hulk clap at the wedding, Martin's attempt to create Spider-Jax, and Atom and Mr. Terrific recreating the "Ant-Man on Hawkeye's arrowhead" move, this has a surprising amount of Marvel references for a DC crossover event.

But with some choice Superman references too. "General, would you care to step outside?" "You have to take her up. Up, and away."

Annnd... I kinda figured this would end with a double Barry-Iris/Ollie-Felicity wedding. I wish more of the gang had stuck around to see it than just Diggle, though (but at least we got some Diggle). I guess they could only schedule/budget so many group scenes. (Meanwhile, I'm surprised that Diggle knew both Barry's and Iris's middle names without any prior preparation.)

You know, I'm torn. On the one hand, I wanted this to be huge and include everyone. On the other hand, it was so huge and inclusive that far too many characters got short shrift. I think Wild Dog and Black Canary got maybe 2-3 lines each, and the debut of Zari's costume was an afterthought. Also, there were so many throwaway plot points that will drive us crazy in retrospect once fridge logic kicks in, so many mysteries with no explanation given.

Maybe they shouldn't try to top this next year. It was neat that they did this, but maybe they should dial it back next time and not bite off more than they can chew.
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#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:52 PM

OK, this is how you do an actual 4 episode cross over. OMG!

Now that the initial OMG is starting to wear off, the logic side of my brain is pointing out obvious problems with parts 3 and 4, which I will get to in a minute.

First, Supergirl's line of: "General, would you care to step outside?" sent me into full on nerdgasim. LOL.

I loved Atom's intro, with stopping the knife...but even that had problems. Guess the easiest thing will be to cover my problems with it first.

Alright, to begin with, for a military trained society, none of these soldiers really seemed to be able to hit what they were shooting at.

For that matter, if the plan was to just kill off the heroes by firing squad, why even bother with sending them to Earth X? When they captured them, why wouldn't they have killed off everyone they didn't need? Why do the whole 60's Batman thing?

I also found it highly unlikely Snark is going to be able to approach a military guarded compound that easily, completely unseen. It's just not going to happen, not if the soldiers in the compound are halfway decent at their jobs...And I get the impression that in a Nazi society not being good at your job would be a death sentence. But, then again, these Nazi's apparently went through the A Team marksmanship academy, thus the reason they can't hit the broad side of a barn.

As I said before, Atom's intro was cool, but once he enlarged there should've been no way he would be able to hit the Reverse Flash. Yes, even taken by surprise like Thawne was, he would still be more than fast enough to avoid a slow a$$ punch like the one Ray threw.

While the double wedding was nice, there are going to be MAJOR ramifications. If Barry and Iris thing Joe is going to be cool with not being there, they are in for a rude awakening. Joe is going to be pissed that he missed it, and so is Wally I'm guessing.

The Ray's intro was weird. OK, he's from Earth 1, but no explanation on how he wound up on Earth X?

I'm not even angry at Barry not killing the Reverse Flash, cause at this point...really, why even bother? They'll just bring him back somehow. I mean he's already been erased from existence twice now, and is still somehow living. Go figure. Technically speaking he shouldn't even be born at all, because his ancestor Eddie killed himself before having any children.

Also surprised that Oliver was the Fuhrer. It would've made more sense for Kal El to be the Leader, but oh well.
Now for what I liked

I loved the end battle, it was pure geek out time for me.

I absolutely LOVED the team up to destroy Metallo.

Stein dying was extremely powerful. Hands down, by far, the best acting on the crossover. When Stein told Jax that Gideon replicated the separation formula, I was so expecting Sarah to have Gideon replicate the Lazarus water. Actually glad they didn't, that would've ruined the whole plot twist. I'm also very curious how they are going to recreate Firestorm now though?

Loved Mick's line of "I died saving pigs?" then grabs a beer. Snark's line of "You can't just roast people. Have you ever heard of due process?" just cracked me up. Glad he is sticking around for awhile.
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#20 Lambsilencer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 06:18 PM

I'm a bit late with this, as I had to watch the second half first before I could safely return to this thread. :D

View PostChristopher, on 28 November 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Quote

Like I mentioned before, I would love to see a crossover between "Arrow" and "Supergirl", with Kara coming to Star City for a change to help Team Arrow - exactly because that combination is tricky to pull off. It would be nice to see Kara maybe finding out that having her powers is sometimes not the best approach, and Team Arrow having an advantage over her, with their more human skills.

Or maybe Kara asks Oliver and Felicity to come to National City and give Guardian and Winn some vigilante training.

That sounds like a cool idea.

Quote

Honestly, I'd like to see a proper Supergirl-Guardian team-up before we get Supergirl-Green Arrow. It's weird that they've so rarely worked together even though Kara seems to have come to terms with his crimefighting. Except they seem to be downplaying the whole Guardian thing this season.

Yes, not only downplaying it, but they seem to have pretty much forgotten James Olsen or how to use him in an effective manner. Once Calista Flockhart left, he was good enough to fill the void, but he obviously doesn't have her charisma or personality. And once Guardian was introduced, it felt like the writers didn't know which direction they wanted to take James. So, basically, they chose neither.

Quote

One idea I've had for a four-way crossover, more like "Invasion!" than this fully integrated thing, is a chase through the multiverse. Maybe a villain causes trouble for Supergirl, then flees to Earth-2 for the Flash segment with Supergirl and J'onn in pursuit (which would let us see Jesse Quick's version of Team Flash partnering with the Earth-1 version), then jumps through time so they have to call in the Legends to continue the chase, and then somehow it all ends up in Star City for the big finish. (Or maybe move Arrow to Monday again and have the Earth-1 part come second.) So it builds up gradually, with more heroes teamed up in each part.

Speaking of Jessie Quick, I think it was a bad choice to let her head back to Earth-2, which basically meant writing her out. I'd much rather preferred her to stick around than Wally, whom I find pretty bland and uninspired. Jessie had spunk and a great overall personality. Wally, for me, has neither, sorry to say.


The second half really delivered. The episodes had everything, from really great character moments to bombastic, elaborate action sequences. They truly must have blown the roof off the budget with those. What started as one hell of a ride finished by topping that easily.

I loved the seriousness of the third episode, which was essentially the "Flash" episode. But it had much more of an "Arrow" vibe, with the Nazis and evil Lance (which was a truly nice and unanticipated twist) having seemingly won. The imagery, the dark and lamenting score, that was powerful stuff that resonated strongly what a torrid situation it all was.

But the final episode was so much fun on so many levels. All the heroes joining the fight, the gigantic fight scenes, Killer Frost creating an ice way right up to the Waverider for her, Amaya and Zari. It was all just awesome to watch and relish in.

I think it's bold to end Professor Stein's journey in the crossover, since all those episodes had so very little (if anything at all) in common with the shows they represented. But, it was done very beautifully. Victor Garber and Franz Drameh knocked it out of the park with their moving, emotional performances.

The funeral was tasteful and moving, too. Some people said that the crossover better had ended there, but, even though I like it dark sometimes, it would have been too much of a downer to end all this.

The double wedding at the end is discussed controversial in the shipper world. I for one didn't mind it per se, but found the execution rather poor. Barry and Iris invited everyone and their plus-one for the ceremony, yet in the end, they went from not wanting to get married anymore to getting their in a matter of minutes. It was sad that not even Cisco, Caitlin and Joe were around when they hitched. It made the whole thing so much less an event, that I started to wonder why they bothered with the big festivities in the first place, if, when all was said and done, such a small, private, and shared affair seemed to suffice.
But still, it had it's moments.

To sum it up, this crossover was some of the best superhero TV that has ever been done. Aside from those very minor quibbles mentioned above, I loved every second of it.Next year, rather go the smaller route than trying to top it. This cannot be topped, at least not in terms of quality. More, bigger, and it gets messy. But for what this was, it truly was so much more than one hell of a ride. It was absolutely freaking epic!

Greets
Lambsilencer

Edited by Lambsilencer, 29 November 2017 - 06:21 PM.




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