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The Jouranlists' who cried Russia


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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 06:12 PM

In the last few weeks there have been SO many false stories reported by the destroy Trump fake media outlets, I couldn't help but realize that this is playing out a lot like: "The boy who cried wolf".

The media's credibility is literally in the sewers right now, even if they found "proof of collusion" only a small handful of die hard Trump haters would believe them. Apparently even ABC, in addition to suspending without pay, has forbidden Brian Ross from covering Trump stories in the future. That has to irk Ross something fierce.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 yadda yadda

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:11 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 13 December 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

In the last few weeks there have been SO many false stories reported by the destroy Trump fake media outlets, I couldn't help but realize that this is playing out a lot like: "The boy who cried wolf".

The media's credibility is literally in the sewers right now, even if they found "proof of collusion" only a small handful of die hard Trump haters would believe them. Apparently even ABC, in addition to suspending without pay, has forbidden Brian Ross from covering Trump stories in the future. That has to irk Ross something fierce.

Waiter, reality check please!

#3 gsmonks

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:19 PM

Ah, so the arrests never happened, Kushner & Jr aren't still being grilled, and won't be facing jail time, and so on.

Dream on.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#4 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

View Postgsmonks, on 14 December 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ah, so the arrests never happened, Kushner & Jr aren't still being grilled, and won't be facing jail time, and so on.

Dream on.

Oh the arrest happened, without doubt. One for lying to the FBI. And that was based off the interview the Anti Trump Strzok did. Not that it matters really, since Flynn plead guilty to avoid heavy legal fees. And since Trump left open the option of pardon for Flynn, I seriously doubt there will be ANY jail time for anyone the Biased Special Counsel investigation charges. And contrary to the Liberal cries of "That would be obstruction". No, it wouldn't. Justice would have been served, sentences handed down, Justice would have run it's course. There would be no obstruction at all for the President using his legal and Constitutional right to pardon those sentences.

And let's be honest....No matter how many claim "prosecutors can have political opinions and still do their job". If the politics were reversed, and it was Trump donating prosecutors investigating Hillary, the Left would be screaming bias and misogyny at the top of their lungs.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#5 sierraleone

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:55 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on 16 December 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Oh the arrest happened, without doubt. One for lying to the FBI. And that was based off the interview the Anti Trump Strzok did. Not that it matters really, since Flynn plead guilty to avoid heavy legal fees. And since Trump left open the option of pardon for Flynn, I seriously doubt there will be ANY jail time for anyone the Biased Special Counsel investigation charges.

There may have been more to that plea agreement than what put out for public consumption. So Flynn may have plead guilty to do more than avoid heavy legal fees.

Quote

And contrary to the Liberal cries of "That would be obstruction". No, it wouldn't. Justice would have been served, sentences handed down, Justice would have run it's course. There would be no obstruction at all for the President using his legal and Constitutional right to pardon those sentences.

Considering how Arpaio's pardon happened, how are you so sure that Justice would have run its course? IIRC wasn't Arpaio appealing the ruling in his case? How had Justice run it's course? And what would it take you to think that a President not just abused his Constitutional right to pardon, but actually broke the law? If Trump orders government officials/officers to do things that break constitutional law, and these government officials are brought to justice, and he pardons them, and this is repeated ad-nasuem, that is constitutionally legal? I mean, one would hope that the legislative branch would impeach him, but I think some Trump-ist would still be pro-Trump and say Trump has the constitution on his side…. And Arpaio's case is not that far off from that (other than the repeat ad-nasum part). As I recall Arpaio acted unconstitutionally caring out his duties as a government official (oxymoron), the Justice system told him to stop, he hadn't so the courts held him in contempt, he appealed it, and Trump pardon him.

I have to wonder if you think it is even possible for a President to obstruct justice…. Do you think it is possible for the President to exert his Presidential power for a criminal purpose? Or do you think that such a concept is an oxymoron?

Quote

And let's be honest....No matter how many claim "prosecutors can have political opinions and still do their job". If the politics were reversed, and it was Trump donating prosecutors investigating Hillary, the Left would be screaming bias and misogyny at the top of their lungs.

I actually heard the other day that often when there is investigation into an administration that the prosecutors are often from the opposing party to ensure that there isn't bias *towards* the President/administration. And that pattern/unwritten rule has been broken for Trump (Mueller being a republican). So it would seem that is actually possibly an untoward deference to Trump in the selection of Mueller. (though I am not positive on that since I think establishment Republicans only care for Trump insofar as it is political expedient to do so, though small-r republicans may be a different matter).

While one could wish prosecutors/agents be more circumspect (which not being they may show a lack of judgment), if I knew of a prosecutor/FBI agent not able to give an opinion in what would typically private moment I'd have to wonder whether they are just a reserved people, or if they are incapable of forming an opinion…. the latter of which would be worrisome.

Now, you yourself said in this thread "what the hell was [Trump] thinking? You are questioning Trump's judgment. How is calling Trump an idiot that much different? You don't think prosecutors form opinions regarding their cases and their investigations' subjects? Yes, I do think holding an opinion privately is different than one being shared (or getting out) publicly, and that is especially true when it is someone involved in our institutions intended for justice, because their perception does matter, and perception of them matter. However, we can't rid human beings of perceptions or world views or opinions. We also don't want prosecutors to be uncomprisable/unmanageably biased towards/against a case or investigation subjects. We want them to be biased to the truth and evidence and objective fact finding and the law, and the policy and procedures properly institutionally developed towards those ends.

I am not sure it is possible to be neutral on Trump, and be a thinking person at this point :p

But you are also ignoring that when Mueller found out about this he got rid of the agent, presumably because Mueller is concerned about even the perception of justice in this case. That seems like a high standard, but that is a standard I am okay with in our justice system, especially in such an important case. Especially when the idiot agent did it on a work device and not a private cell phone (not that that removes the bias, but it certainly increases the chance of your boss finding out. And one has to wonder what their judgment is like if they did that).

I haven't read all the texts, but the more I read the more I am glad he was taken off the investigation. It is one thing to call a person an idiot (or their actions idiotic), and its another to express hatred of them. The woman texts that Trump is loathsome humans being, and the man texts back Trump is awful. Sure, there are ways to spin the idiot and awful comments, I think Trump is awful for the country, and being an idiot adds to that opinion. But, at that point, the perception of unmanageable bias will be hard to remove. So Mueller made the right call, the priority is the integrity of the investigation, not on the distraction of defending an agent and their place on the investigation.

Edited by sierraleone, 16 December 2017 - 05:15 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


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