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STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - S1, E15: "Will You Take My Hand?"...


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#1 FarscapeOne

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:16 AM

With Georgiou at the helm of the plan to end the Klingon war once and for all, the U.S.S. Discovery crew struggles to fathom and tolerate her hostile tactics. Memories of past hardships are rekindled within Burnham.

#2 FarscapeOne

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

This is the season finale, folks.


#3 Christopher

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:51 PM

They went all-out with the TOS callbacks here. In addition to the obvious ones at the end, the elderly Orion who drugged Tilly was played by Clint Howard, who was Balok in the first post-pilot TOS episode filmed, "The Corbomite Maneuver" (and also a homeless guy in DS9's "Past Tense").

This didn't quite work for me. So having L'Rell threaten to blow up Qo'noS if they don't obey her is a moral and noble resolution to the war? And the Klingons just believe her about the bomb? Sure, it was a nice attempt to do a story about the heroes finding a peaceful way to end a war by being true to Federation values and rejecting genocide, but Deep Space Nine already did the same thing more effectively.

Still, there were some good character beats here, especially for Tilly and her friendship with Burnham, and with the resolution of Burnham's arc.

And now the Enterprise has arrived, and we have confirmation that the show is retconning the look of TOS designs. Well, that's sort of in the spirit of what Roddenberry probably had in mind when he made ST:TMP, that Starfleet tech, Klingons, and the like had always looked more or less like this but TOS hadn't had the means to show it. This version of the Enterprise does have TMP-style nacelle struts and other attributes, which fits with that approach, although not with things like "Relics," "Trials and Tribble-ations," and "In a Mirror, Darkly."

So now we're in for months of speculation about what happens next season. Will they get Bruce Greenwood and Zachary Quinto to reprise Pike and Spock, or recast them again? Who will play Number One, Boyce, Jose Tyler, etc.? And who's the new Discovery captain they're heading to Vulcan to pick up? Why can't Saru just be captain?
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#4 Christopher

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:59 AM

Okay, TrekMovie has an interview with Alex Kurtzman, and it sounds like we won't be seeing Spock next season. Which makes sense, given that Sarek is on board Discovery at the moment, and we know they don't "speak as father and son" for 18 years before "Journey to Babel." Perhaps the reason for the Enterprise's distress call involves Spock being captured? And maybe Pike too, except they said the distress call was from Pike.

And it sounds like we haven't seen the last of L'Rell and Voq/Tyler after all. There will be more developments on the postwar Klingon front, as well as more exploration of how the series fits with TOS canon.
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#5 Cardie

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:58 PM

As fond as I was of many of the characters and their story arcs, overall Discovery's first season is a disappointment. As Christopher said, DS9 has already done the theme of the Federation imperiling its soul in time of war better. I've frequently expressed my dismay at all the twists involving Starfleet officers not being what they seem. And interacting with Pike's Enterprise seems a big risk to me, given how stylistically and tonally different Discovery is from TOS. What exactly is happening at this point in the Enterprise timeline?


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And who's the new Discovery captain they're heading to Vulcan to pick up? Why can't Saru just be captain?


    Why can't he be, indeed? I'm a bit worried about him because Doug Jones just signed to do a comedy on F/X. I wonder if the new captain will be one we've heard of or someone new to canon, as Georgiou, Lorca and Cornwell are. Post-finale PR is starting to feature the whole bridge crew in response to how many regulars have left the ship during the season. I'm glad Latif and Chieffo will still be around and I'm sure Yeoh will pop in a few times to cause mischief.
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    #6 Christopher

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    Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:32 PM

    View PostCardie, on 12 February 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

    What exactly is happening at this point in the Enterprise timeline?

    That has never been explored. We're three years past "The Cage," and canon establishes nothing about the Enterprise in the dozen years between "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before," except that Spock served under Pike for 11 years, 4 months, and 5 days, so presumably they're both still in the crew as of 2257. But we have no idea about anyone else. Even tie-ins set in the Pike era have always tended to crowd in right before and after "The Cage"; the only things in prose that have touched on later years in Pike's command have been a few flashback chapters in Michael Jan Friedman's Legacy and Margaret Wander Bonanno's Burning Dreams. So the status of Pike's Enterprise at this point is wide open.


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    I'm a bit worried about him because Doug Jones just signed to do a comedy on F/X.

    It's just a pilot, not yet picked up, and I gather it's a guest role.


    Quote

    I wonder if the new captain will be one we've heard of or someone new to canon, as Georgiou, Lorca and Cornwell are.

    If they do create a new captain, I expect it would be someone new so they could have free rein with the character.

    Edited by Christopher, 12 February 2018 - 10:33 PM.

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    #7 Cardie

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    Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:18 AM

    Quote

    It's just a pilot, not yet picked up, and I gather it's a guest role.


    I read that it was a recurring guest role. It just seems odd that he'd be going out for pilots with a steady Disco gig. But with these short cable season, the rules may be changing.
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    #8 Christopher

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    Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:08 AM

    View PostCardie, on 13 February 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

    I read that it was a recurring guest role. It just seems odd that he'd be going out for pilots with a steady Disco gig.

    You know, that might be it. The production of DSC's first season wasn't really "steady." It was delayed for months on end because of Bryan Fuller's split attention between it and American Gods, which is why he was ultimately fired from DSC. So the cast and crew were basically frozen in their careers while waiting for the show to finally get moving, and thus looking for other work once they were finally free to do so was a matter of making up lost time. At least, that's probably true for the crew; it might be different for the actors, since they didn't have to show up until the shooting finally began. But they still had to keep lining up work in the meantime, so maybe this was something Jones set in motion beforehand and is only now coming together.


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    But with these short cable season, the rules may be changing.

    Sure. Shorter seasons, staggered shooting and release schedules -- it's possible to do two series at once. Heck, it was sometimes done even in the old days, like when Richard Anderson played Oscar Goldman on both The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman at the same time, and on different networks, no less.
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    #9 FarscapeOne

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    Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

    I have to say, I love the look of the Enterprise.  It is a far, far, FAR better update than the new movies.  I am very impressed with her.

    Now to the rest of the season...

    Overall, I enjoyed it.  I can feel some of the spirit of STAR TREK here, though it took a while to get there.  I do think the war was not the best way to go, as DS9 did this kind of thing better, as Christopher said.

    I am looking forward to next season.  If they can keep some of the STAR TREK spirit, as they did particularly with the season finale, then this series will be a worthy part of the franchise.

    #10 FarscapeOne

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    Posted 17 February 2018 - 03:46 PM

    You know, a thought occured to me.

    Seeing the Enterprise there, who's to say Number One doesn't end up becoming Captain of the Discovery?

    It would be a good way to fill in some gaps for those unknown years, and her character was interesting in the pilot.

    Edited by FarscapeOne, 17 February 2018 - 03:47 PM.


    #11 Cardie

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    Posted 17 February 2018 - 09:02 PM

    ^^That would be cool. The Vulcan part of Burnham would empathize.
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    #12 Christopher

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    Posted 17 February 2018 - 09:17 PM

    I dunno, it seems that Burnham and "The Cage"'s Number One would be too similar in personality.

    And I'm still hoping for Captain Saru. They did such a good job in the Mirror Universe episodes showing Saru growing into a fine commanding officer and winning the respect and faith of his crew -- it'd be a shame to short-circuit that by bringing in a new captain. I'm hoping that diverting the ship from their planned rendezvous with their new captain is intended to lead into Saru becoming captain permanently, or at least to leave the option open depending on how season 2 plot breaking and actor availability work out.
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    #13 3C273

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    Posted 18 February 2018 - 11:55 AM

    Burnham is extremely impulsive.  She does whatever she thinks at the moment.  She does not plan ahead and think about possible repercussions.  As a captain she would be a disaster.

    #14 Cardie

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    Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:56 PM

    She is definitely not strategic but her tactical impulses work out far more than they have any right to.
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    #15 Jorgasnarova

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    Posted 19 February 2018 - 12:31 AM

    DSC finished up Season One with superb production values, actors, and performances, but with screenplays that often appeared uneven and unfocused.

    Of course, I said something similar about the first seasons of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT back in the day.  Wildly variable first seasons are kinda a gimme with the Trek franchise.  Now that we are over the teething problems of year one, am eager to see year two, which, I believe, begins production in April.

    #16 Jorgasnarova

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    Posted 19 February 2018 - 12:43 AM

    If Mr. Spock makes an appearance on DSC, which actor should play him?  Zach Quinto from the Kelvin timeline films would be the obvious choice but I suspect his presence would re-ignite the debate that the DSC universe is actually in the Kelvin timeline despite all the denials from the DSC producers and writers.

    Actually, I think Todd Haberkorn, the professional actor and voice over artist who essayed Spock in the fan film series Star Trek: Continues, might be a good choice for Spock, honestly.

    #17 Christopher

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    Posted 19 February 2018 - 08:25 AM

    View PostJorgasnarova, on 19 February 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

    If Mr. Spock makes an appearance on DSC, which actor should play him?  Zach Quinto from the Kelvin timeline films would be the obvious choice but I suspect his presence would re-ignite the debate that the DSC universe is actually in the Kelvin timeline despite all the denials from the DSC producers and writers.

    It's impossible for DSC to be in the Kelvin timeline, for two major reasons. One, DSC establishes that the Enterprise is already in service in 2256-7, while in Kelvin, the Enterprise isn't even launched until 2258. Two, Admiral Marcus says in STID in 2259 that the Klingons up to then have "conquered and occupied two planets that we know of and fired on our ships half a dozen times." So the massive Federation-Klingon war of 2256-7 clearly did not happen in that timeline.

    Besides, in the first Kelvin movie, Spock Prime recognized Kirk and Scotty on sight. Clearly the characters are meant to look the same, even though they've been recast. So using Quinto as young Spock would be just as valid in Prime as in Kelvin.

    I mean, good grief, Doctor Who just brought back the in-continuity version of the First Doctor, played by the actor who played the actor who played the First Doctor in a recent docudrama about the creation and early years of the show. If David Bradley could jump realities like that, then so could Quinto.
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    #18 Jorgasnarova

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    Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:46 PM

    Mild spoilers below.

















    Trekmovie.com has a nice article on the recent Wondercon presentation with the producers and showrunners.  Tidbits on the direction of season 2 were discussed.  Most interesting was a deleted scene from the season finale which showed Mirror Georgiou--now running that nightclub in the Orion compound on the Klingon homeworld--being approached by Mr. Leland, a Section 31 operative, who gives her the same kind of black badge seen in Episode 3 Context is For Kings.  Mr. Leland will be a recurring character in Season 2.

    #19 RJDiogenes

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    Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:10 PM

    It's like they made a list of everything I don't want to see on Star Trek.  :lol:
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    #20 Jorgasnarova

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    Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:45 PM

    Actor Anson Mount, recently seen as Black Bolt on Marvel's The Inhumans, has been cast as Captain Christopher Pike on Star Trek Discovery.  Season two starts filming later this month.


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