Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Trying out a morbid neologism? Question about latin language.


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:57 AM

I was looking through all the currently used words ending in -cide and couldn't find one for my language purposes.

What would be the proper latin term for the killing/murdering of disabled people?
Senicide/geronticide might be an okay substitute to used for an disabled elderly person, but might not be for a disabled non-elderly person.

What the internets tell me is that the latin words for disabled are: debilis, debile, debilior.

So would the correct combination be debilicide? Debilisicide? Something else along those lines?
Or do I have the wrong set of words completely?

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 08:58 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#2 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,711 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:48 AM

I'd say "debilicide" would be the right form. I'm not sure, but the pattern seems to be that "-cide" gets attached to the dative form of a noun (the form that makes it the recipient of an action), and for debilis that would be dēbilī.

Except I'm not sure that debilis is the right word, since it's an adjective, and you want a noun. Then again, I found a couple of online references for "infirmicide" as a neologism meaning the deliberate denial of health care to the elderly and disabled, and infirmus is an adjective too. So maybe either word would work for your purposes.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#3 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:41 AM

^ Thanks. I think disabled is a adjective in English too…

Now I am trying to think of English synonyms of disabled that are nouns…. Of which some will probably be somewhat offensive or odd to contemporary ears ;) I am sure there are plenty of words for specific conditions. Lameness. Deafness.

Ah. Oxford has nouns disability and disableness in the dictionary (though not its likely antomyns enability and enableness).

Just were does that -ness ending come from? One can add it to other adjectives too maybe? Even where not typically used?
I made that observation about -less and nouns once. I can find churchless and headless in the dictionary, but not penisless ;)


My mind has a tendency to going down rabbit holes if you haven't noticed :)


Back to latin: Just found latin word vitium, but I don't like that it seems analogous to both character and physical defects. Despite the adjective-ness of debilis, and maybe infirmus, I think they might be better choices.

Thank you again.

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 10:55 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#4 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,711 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:04 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 21 April 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

^ Thanks. I think disabled is a adjective in English too…

Ah. Oxford has nouns disability and disableness in the dictionary (though not its likely antomyns enability and enableness).

Yeah, but the point is, words ending in "-cide" have roots that are nouns referring to people or things. Homicide is killing a person. Regicide is killing a king. Sororicide is killing a sister. Genocide is killing a race. Insecticide is something that kills insects. It's always a person or thing being killed, so you ideally want a word that means a person with a disability, rather than the general concept of disability. You could probably get away with using the adjective where no suitable noun exists, as people apparently do with "infirmicide," but it's a departure from the standard pattern.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#5 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:20 AM

^ I understand. I was only looking at the adjective-ness of disabled to see if I could find an analogous english noun to try to find a translation to latin. Probably not the optimal way to do it ;)

Though even the noun vitium refers, it seems to me, to the actual defect, not a person-with-a-'defect'. If I understand vitium correctly, which quite possible I do not ;)

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 11:21 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#6 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:49 AM

Accord to this article there is no neutral latin word for person with a disability. And if I were to follow the example of the ancient Romans of how to refer to a person with a (generic) disability it would be monstrum… They used the same word to refer to a monster, or a portent / unnatural thing or event regarded as omen / sign / portent.

So with it appearing that there is not a neutral fully-encompassing single word in either language for a person with a disability…. Then one would have to make a compound word from other latin words to stand in, if one wants a better latin term than monstricide(?) or debilicide.

I have no idea how one would properly order them if one were to do so. Homo-debili-cide? Debilis-homicide? Or if both just looks like a whole bunch of gobbledygook to those who understand latin.  :)

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 12:04 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 Orpheus

Orpheus

    I'm not the boss of you!

  • Administrator
  • 17,737 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:36 PM

IIRC, "defectrix" may cover a disabled person. It's feminine, but that doesn't preclude use for both genders, given that the Romans often spoke of a disabled male as "less than a man" or "unmanly". The masculine derivatives have stereotypically male (e.g. military) connotations such as the modern "defector". Masculine, feminine and neuter "versions" of a base word often carry different connotations.

I think that (as distasteful as it is to modern Western ears) you should look into terms for "defective", "damaged", "broken" etc., based on what little I recall of the classics.

#8 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 07:12 PM

^ Thanks Orpheus.

It wasn't so much the negative connotation to impairment that I found with vitium, but the association with character flaws. But from what little reading I've done, I should expect that somewhat from ancient Rome, as it seems they saw disabilities as disfavour from the gods and associated disabilities with matters that were not medical…. It is more about trying to be clear if someone looks it up and wonders "does this mean to murder unethical people or disabled people"? *laughs*

Defectrix might be a better choice. Would one take off the x and add cide?

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 07:22 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#9 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,153 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:01 PM

Well with these new rabbit holes Orpheus I think I found the origin of the name of the big bad in this season's Legends of Tomorrow. Though latin is one of the pretty good bets for obscure names of ancient otherworldly creatures ;)

Malus - wicked person.

Back to the topic, there is also:

Malum - in which *most* of the words are analogous to disability, though there is also "crime, guilt".
Claudicatio - (and some various there of) - limping, lameness...

I think the best ones I've found so far are:

Deformitas (deformiticide?)
Morbus (a similar word, Morbovia is fun. "The land of disease, sickdom". Not quite sure what that is supposed to be..).    
Infirmitas (infirmiticide?)
Vitiositas (vitositicide?)

None of these with -cide make it clear you are murdering a person, with the conventional use of -cide. Though I think it would be clear enough to most that at the very least it is not actually killing the disease/deformity/disability (which would be conceptually a cure typically, not a conventional death?), so I would hope that it would be clear enough in context at least. Though if out of context species will not be 100% clear considering the use of -cide for all sorts of killing chemicals ;)

Edited by sierraleone, 21 April 2018 - 10:00 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#10 G-man

G-man

    Is there a problem?

  • Moderator
  • 8,490 posts

Posted 29 April 2018 - 11:36 AM

I think technically, it would still be referred to as "homicide," but could imagine some wiseacre at the office coining the term "debilicide" once they pick up on the murderer's choice of targets.  

Thus, yes, it might not be a proper term, but you can establish that it was an improper term that caught on.

Just a thought.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#11 Orpheus

Orpheus

    I'm not the boss of you!

  • Administrator
  • 17,737 posts

Posted 30 April 2018 - 01:35 PM

There is an old schoolboy(*) Latin joke, which plays on various meanings [apple (tree), evil or wrongdoer, harm, a curse word, etc] of malum and word forms of other words which overlap forms of malum:

Malo malo malo malo.

Malo [I would rather be]
malo [in an apple tree]
malo [than a naughty boy]
malo [in adversity]

(*) It's a bit strained, but what do you expect from an (increasingly) old schoolboy like me?

#12 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 4,964 posts

Posted 18 July 2018 - 04:31 PM

Pesticide: the killing of a younger annoying sibling.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.

#13 Orpheus

Orpheus

    I'm not the boss of you!

  • Administrator
  • 17,737 posts

Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:28 PM

You tempt me to get a pesticide license. I had the coolest little sis ever, for her first 30 years, and she'd have said the same of her big bro -- but I told her 20 years ago that she needed to straighten out and fly right, and now I'm the one person in the world she fears, despite her JD degree. I'm mostly hardass because of her daughter. My sis and I grew up with a dysfunctional mom.

#14 gsmonks

gsmonks

    Tree Psychiatrist

  • Islander
  • 4,964 posts

Posted 20 July 2018 - 02:29 PM

Oh, I'm all about dysfunctional mums. Mine was a hardcore borderline personality disorder case whose life ended rather horribly- cancer of the everything got from Hep C that went to her liver, in turn got from being a crack ho.

Life is full of . . . stuff.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme run by the 1%.


0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users