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Supergirl: Shelter From the Storm

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#1 Virgil Vox

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:27 AM

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REIGN SETS HER SIGHTS ON RUBY - When Reign (Odette Annable) starts hunting Ruby (guest star Emma Tremblay), Supergirl (Melissa Benoist) and Alex (Chyler Leigh) work together to keep her safe. Supergirl and J'onn (David Harewood) look to Sam's mother (guest star Betty Buckley) for advice on how to stop Reign and come away with some shocking news.


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#2 Virgil Vox

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:15 PM

The Lena/Supergirl stuff was simply amazing this episode. That final conversation between Kara and Lena was chilling. What I love about the growing rift between the two women is that both of them are right and both of them are wrong.

Kara has lashed out at Lena for having/making Kryptonite and for holding Reign hostage without telling anyone else about it. I can see where she is coming from, but at the time Lena isn't Lex. She made Kryptonite because it can hurt the Wordkillers and so far it is the only thing that truly has. Kara was also wrong to ask Jimmy to spy on Lena. She did take advantage of their relationship.

At the same time, Lena should have told others about Sam, especially when Sam begged Lena to contact Supergirl. Lena definitely showed a bit of the Luthor god complex when she said that she was the only one that could cure Sam. She also really isn't taking into account how making Kryptonite and lying about it would look to Supergirl.

I bet Kara is going to have a conversation with Jimmy though she can't be too mad since she did put him in a really bad position.

I'm not happy that Reign is captured again. We just had four episodes where Reign was a prisoner and now she's a prisoner again. It feels like the writers realized they screwed the pooch when they gave Reign all the Worldkiller powers and couldn't figure out a plausible reason why Reign wasn't continuing her, no pun intended, reign of terror and so decided to lock her up again.

The scenes between J'onn and his father are so good and so heartbreaking.

Nice homage to the Superman: The Movie Extended Cut with Luthor's secret mansion defenses. I had a total fanboy moment when that happened.

Mon-El stays behind which isn't surprising. I don't want him to date Kara again but it would be nice if the writers would give the characters a proper ending to their relationship and have them realize they are better off as friends.

Okay, if the Legionnaires in stasis were never infected with Blight to begin with would they have been put into stasis at all? Would the Legion have even traveled back in time? This is why I hate time travel stories. Still, this wasn't as bad as the Savitar mess from season 3 of The Flash.

If seeing a crying Ruby doesn't give Sam the edge to take back control, what will?

I liked Supergirl's approach of appealing to Reign's nature to stop her from killing Ruby. Reign's mission is to wipe out sin and Ruby isn't a sinner. My only problem is that the Worldkillers were going to bring on a permanent eclipse that would have eventually wiped out all life on Earth, including Ruby. Why is mass genocide okay within the context of Reign's code but killing a child in person that would have died if the mass genocide had occurred not?
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#3 Christopher

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:02 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 21 May 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

Nice homage to the Superman: The Movie Extended Cut with Luthor's secret mansion defenses.

I thought that was what that was.

Still, it doesn't make much sense that a security system no doubt designed to be anti-Superman could have its external camouflage taken out so easily by a superstrong punch.



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I liked Supergirl's approach of appealing to Reign's nature to stop her from killing Ruby. Reign's mission is to wipe out sin and Ruby isn't a sinner. My only problem is that the Worldkillers were going to bring on a permanent eclipse that would have eventually wiped out all life on Earth, including Ruby. Why is mass genocide okay within the context of Reign's code but killing a child in person that would have died if the mass genocide had occurred not?

I think that's the point -- that Reign has been given orders that conflict with what she believes is her purpose. Reign has basically fallen prey to her own version of the Milgram experiment, blindly trusting in the being giving her orders even when those orders go against her basic beliefs. Supergirl finally forced her to confront that contradiction and question what she was doing.
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#4 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 08:02 AM

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The Lena/Supergirl stuff was simply amazing this episode. That final conversation between Kara and Lena was chilling. What I love about the growing rift between the two women is that both of them are right and both of them are wrong.

That’s the thing though … most of the problem is that Supergirl takes things personally instead of philosophically, which makes her appear selfish, especially when the situation was a result of her own decisions.

But then, I disagreed with her decision to keep Cat Grant in the dark, even though Cat had correctly deduced her identity, and would prove to be quite an asset to have as an ally.

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Mon-El stays behind which isn't surprising. I don't want him to date Kara again but it would be nice if the writers would give the characters a proper ending to their relationship and have them realize they are better off as friends.

Ye-eah, this only makes him appear worse, since he’s abandoning the girl he married to be with his “first love.”  At least, that’s how it appears to me … admittedly, I was never a fan of this show’s pairing of Supergirl and Mon-El (properly known as Lar Gand (yet something else the show got wrong)) as not only did they do a number on his characterization, but it undermined Supergirl’s characterization as well.  This was where the show really lost me.

The one development of this season that I liked was Supergirl reaching out to Live Wire for help, and then they had to kill off Live Wire.  I would’ve dearly desired watching that relationship between frenemies develop, far more than any potential romance with Mon-El.

/s/

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Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#5 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

That’s the thing though … most of the problem is that Supergirl takes things personally instead of philosophically, which makes her appear selfish, especially when the situation was a result of her own decisions.

Is it really selfish, though? I mean, kryptonite has no function except to kill Kryptonians. It's not like fire or cars or other things that have a beneficial reason to exist. It's purely a weapon, a particularly brutal radiological one -- and it's a weapon targeted exclusively against her own very small, nearly extinct ethnic minority. How can she not be entitled to see its creation as a targeted attack on her, and on her cousin, whom she was sent to Earth with the specific mission of protecting? How can she not be entitled to see it as a genocidal threat to what little remains of her species?

Of course Lena has a valid argument for the utility of her work. But Supergirl absolutely does have a valid reason to be upset by it too. That's what's interesting about it -- they're both right. Those always make the most interesting dramatic conflicts, the ones where neither side is in the wrong but they still have irreconcilable priorities.



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Mon-El (properly known as Lar Gand (yet something else the show got wrong))

Not "wrong," because it's an adaptation. The purpose of an adaptation is not to slavishly copy the source, merely to use it as a starting point for creating something new. How many times has DC canon itself reinvented characters? Was it "wrong" for John Byrne to turn Lex Luthor from a mad scientist into a business mogul? Was it "wrong" for the Silver Age writers to retcon Kryptonian powers as coming from yellow sunlight rather than being innate abilities that all Kryptonians had? Was it "wrong" to change Superman's birth name from Kal-L to Kal-El?

Besides, they did use the name Lar Gand, as the name of Mon-El's father (Kevin Sorbo).
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#6 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:29 AM

But think about it, his dad is named Lar Gand, his mom is named Rhea (no family name given), and he is named Mon El.  How the heck does that work as a naming convention, especially in a society such as implied for Daxamites?

Was Rhea of the Daxamite branch of the house of El?

Do Daxamites, or at least Royal Daxamites, change their name upon attaining station (e.g. the Pope; Shogun)?  So could Lar Gand have been Lar El of the Daxamite branch of El; and Lar Gand was his Royal Name.  Except I seem to recall some mention of the Gand Dynasty, which would undercut that rationalization.

From what I saw, this issue was never addressed … and to my mind, this failure is less a matter of adaptation, and more a matter of laziness on the part of the writers, who are leaving it up to the fans to try to rationalize the discrepancy away rather than provide an explanation.

Yes, it is a trivial point, but it is just on such points that world building occurs … and in their rush to include comic book references, I have found the world-building on Supergirl to be rather slip-shod and haphazard.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 09:29 AM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#7 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:42 AM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

But think about it, his dad is named Lar Gand, his mom is named Rhea (no family name given), and he is named Mon El.  How the heck does that work as a naming convention, especially in a society such as implied for Daxamites?

Was Rhea of the Daxamite branch of the house of El?

"El" is an incredibly common syllable. It's found in many languages and has different meanings in each of them. Why can't it just be a coincidence? If there were a character named Daniel or Samuel, would they have to be following a Kryptonian naming pattern?
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#8 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:05 AM

Agreed.

Except the writers failed to tie either Lar Gand or Rhea to “El”, providing us with no context for why they opted to name their off-spring Mon El.

Had Rhea made mention of her Kryptonian cousin (i.e. Kara) we could assume that Daxamites were matrilineal, in contrast to the patrilineal Kryptonians (assuming the two races were related), or had his parents called him “Mon Gand” and it was only Kara who had named him “Mon El” -- due to him identifying himself only as “Mon”, and arriving in a Kryptonian pod -- that could have worked as well.

But they did none of that, leaving me discontented.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 10:14 AM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#9 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:51 AM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

Except the writers failed to tie either Lar Gand or Rhea to “El”, providing us with no context for why they opted to name their off-spring Mon El.

They didn't tell us why Robert and Moira Queen named their son Oliver either. Why in Beebo's name should any of this matter?
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#10 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:02 PM

But did Robert and Moira Queen name their son Oliver Cromwell? No.  Oliver bears the family name of Queen, as one might expect in contemporary American culture.  Had they named him Oliver Cromwell, despite it not being either the father's surname, or the mother's maiden name, then, yes, I'd be questioning that as well, because it runs contrary to my expectations and suggests that he was sired by someone other than Robert Queen.

It's all about coherent world-building.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 12:15 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#11 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

But did Robert and Moira Queen name their son Oliver Cromwell? No.  Oliver bears the family name of Queen, as one might expect in contemporary American culture.  Had they named him Oliver Cromwell, despite it not being either the father's surname, or the mother's maiden name, then, yes, I'd be questioning that as well, because it runs contrary to my expectations and suggests that he was sired by someone other than Robert Queen.

But you're still making an assumption that's totally unsupported within the show's continuity, that the "-El" in the name "Mon-El" is the same kind of family name particle that it represents in Kryptonian. That makes about as much sense as assuming that it means "the" in Spanish. Like I said, it's just a sound, a silly little two-letter utterance that's found in countless different languages with no similarity of meaning. Yes, in the comics, the name comes from a Kryptonian origin, but there's absolutely no basis for assuming that's the case in the show, which is a different reality.

Every Daxamite we know of in Supergirl canon has a 2-syllable name. Each one is punctuated differently when written out in English, but maybe that's a translation error. Maybe they're actually Rhea, Largand, and Monel of the Royal House of Dax, or something. Or Rhe-A, Lar-Gand, and Mon-El, if you prefer. There's zero reason within the context of the show to assume that the second syllable is a family name in the final case rather than simply part of the given name.
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"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#12 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:14 PM

Had they mentioned a royal house of Dax I could accept your argument.  But they didn’t.  They provided nothing but the names Rhea, Largand/Lar Gand, and Monel/Mon El and nothing else.  

Given that lack, the viewer HAS to make assumptions.  That the names provided us were purely their given names is as much an assumption as that they are given and surname, since there is nothing to suggest one way or the other.  

And for me as a viewer and potential fan who is apparently sensitive to world-building, this lack is frustrating, because not only do the Daxamites came across as rather generic and woefully underdeveloped, what little that was revealed comes across as rather inconsistent.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 01:15 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#13 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Given that lack, the viewer HAS to make assumptions.


That's absolutely untrue. Nobody ever has to make assumptions. Assumptions only lead people astray. As Sherlock Holmes liked to say, "It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts." The smart thing to do in the absence of data is merely to admit that you don't know, to remain undecided until or unless you acquire more data. There's no need to falsify an illusory certainty to fill a gap in knowledge; on the contrary, that is a very foolish, dishonest, and harmful thing to do in any situation.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#14 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

That is only when there is further evidence to be gathered.  

If there isn’t, then the dissatisfied audience is obliged to either fill in the blanks, or else complain about the lack, or the inconsistency, of the information presented.  Which is what I was doing.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 02:49 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#15 Christopher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:36 PM

View PostG-man, on 23 May 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

If there isn’t, then the dissatisfied audience is obliged to either fill in the blanks, or else complain about the lack, or the inconsistency, of the information presented.  Which is what I was doing.

"Obliged"? No. Where is the obligation to limit your imagination to a single possibility? Who is forcing you to close your mind so extremely? As you saw in my above post, it's easy to imagine multiple possible explanations for something unexplained. There is no "obligation" to pick just one. If there is any obligation, it's to consider every possibility you can think of.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


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#16 G-man

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 06:17 PM

Yet, what good is considering possibilities when there is insufficient data to support any of them?

Admittedly, I -- for my own reasons -- am critical of the program, so I express criticism.  Others may like what they see, and opt to defend the program.

I cannot say that either view is unjustified ... it's just that from where I stand, I have my quibbles with the program.  Naturally, YMMV.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Edited by G-man, 23 May 2018 - 06:20 PM.

Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus



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