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Possibly done with DC/WB


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#1 QueenTiye

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 06:37 PM

Well, I imagine some here have heard that Henry Cavill is likely OUT as Superman.  That makes me incredibly sad, because I liked him in the role, and I think we missed out on a genuine Man of Steel 2.  But I've been pretty loyal to DC - I dragged family members to Justice League, as bad as it was, because of the few genuinely fun moments in the film.  I tolerated BvS in spite of having expected and WANTED Man of Steel 2.

But now in the midst of this very disappointing news, WB has finally convinced me that they neither know nor care about the intellectual property in their control.  Consider:

1. Rumor - Michael P. Jordon as the new Superman!  Yeah, ok.  Pander to black folks to get over the ratings hurdles.  Sure.  That's not offensive at all!  (And for the record - I'm VERY ok with a Black Superman.  I am NOT ok with a Black Superman as a naked pander ploy by a studio that doesn't care about me as a fan.)

2. Rumor - We're going to make a Supergirl movie instead.  Yeah, ok.  Pander to women.  EVERY DC movie should be female led.  Again - I could really enjoy a Supergirl movie. I'm already enjoying the Supergirl t.v. show.  But the pandering isn't sitting well.

3. Superman can't be in Supergirl movie because when she was a teenager, he was an infant...


WAIT.... WHAT???  You've got to be joking.  I missed that little nugget while mourning the loss of Henry Cavill as Superman.  But when I saw that I thought... I think I'm done.

Add to that the hideous mess that is the Titans show promotion - the awful "F*** Batman" trailer...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, WB, Sell DC to someone who actually gives a crap about it?!  

QT

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#2 Christopher

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 07:58 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 17 September 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Well, I imagine some here have heard that Henry Cavill is likely OUT as Superman.  That makes me incredibly sad, because I liked him in the role, and I think we missed out on a genuine Man of Steel 2.

That's not confirmed yet, and it may turn out to be yet another of the many times the Internet has been too hasty to believe a rumor. If it is true, it's disappointing, but movie series have been recasting their leads for generations, from Tarzan to Batman to Bruce Banner, so it's not necessarily impossible to recover from.


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1. Rumor - Michael P. Jordon as the new Superman!  Yeah, ok.  Pander to black folks to get over the ratings hurdles.  Sure.  That's not offensive at all!  (And for the record - I'm VERY ok with a Black Superman.  I am NOT ok with a Black Superman as a naked pander ploy by a studio that doesn't care about me as a fan.)

This rumor is probably nonsense. Most likely someone conflated reports that Jordan was in talks with DC for some project with the reports that Cavill was out and made a Superman-sized leap to a conclusion. Really, we should all know by now that most Internet rumors are false. We've all seen hundreds of them create a few days or weeks of fan furor and then turn out to be mistakes or misunderstandings or outright lies. By now we should have learned to be more skeptical and wait for confirmation before assuming the worst.


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2. Rumor - We're going to make a Supergirl movie instead.  Yeah, ok.  Pander to women.  EVERY DC movie should be female led.  Again - I could really enjoy a Supergirl movie. I'm already enjoying the Supergirl t.v. show.  But the pandering isn't sitting well.

How is it "pandering" to have more than one female-led movie? Or more to the point -- how is it not pandering to male audiences to have a whole bunch of male-led movies? The industry has always, always pandered to those who prefer white male heterosexual leads. We're so used to it that we fall into the trap of seeing it as the natural default and any departure from it as "pandering" or an "agenda." But it's all pandering to one taste or another. What, you're fine with Marvel making 20 consecutive films with male leads, but if DC makes 4 or 5 with female leads, that's an outrage to you? That's by far the most sexist thing I've ever heard you say, QT. I'm shocked.


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3. Superman can't be in Supergirl movie because when she was a teenager, he was an infant...


WAIT.... WHAT???  You've got to be joking.

No, it's been Supergirl's backstory in the comics since 2004, the same one used in the CW series -- she was older than Kal-El on Krypton, she was sent to Earth along with him to be his guardian, but she was trapped in space in suspended animation until he was an adult.


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Add to that the hideous mess that is the Titans show promotion - the awful "F*** Batman" trailer...

The movies and the TV shows are from different divisions of Warner Bros., and the TV side has been far more successful and consistent than the movie side for some years now. And different shows tend to strike their own courses, so you can't really judge them as a monolithic hole. For my part, I love the Arrowverse and Black Lightning and I'm quite impressed by Krypton, but I can't stand Gotham. I'm not too impressed by what I've seen of Titans so far, but you can't judge too much from a mere trailer and a few photos, and it is from Berlanti Productions like the Arrowverse and BL, so I'm hopeful. What I've seen of its spinoff Doom Patrol seems strikingly comics-faithful and potentially intriguing.
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#3 QueenTiye

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 09:14 PM

Um... it's the timing, and the way that they are doing this that's bothering me.  If we were getting a standalone Supergirl movie AND MoS2, I wouldn't complain.

And no - not needing any new Superman (read: Henry Cavill) because Superman was an infant while Supergirl was a teenager, is just... NOT TRUE.

KARA was a teenager when KAL was an infant.  So unless this is a movie set entirely on Krypton, about KARA (who was not Supergirl) then there is no reason at all to say there's no need for Superman.  Because when SUPERGIRL exists, she's on earth, with her OLDER cousin, Kal, aka Superman.  

The whole thing stinks.  And you're absolutely right Christopher, that recasting characters happens all the time.  And if they were doing that, I'd be disappointed.  But I'd say oh well.  Who's the new Superman. But they are crapping on the character, apparently because of a dispute with the actor, which makes me think they don't give a crap about the character.  I.e., the intellectual property.

And, yes, I guess you could say it's all rumors, but the initial story ran in the Hollywood Reporter, which is generally considered a news source and not just a gossip mill, no?

QT

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#4 Virgil Vox

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 09:59 PM

I am definitely frustrated at DC/WB myself, QT. Every time I think they are getting their stuff together something like this happens. I am genuinely excited for Aquaman, Shazam, and Wonder Woman 2. I am hoping that all three movies are good.

The problem comes after those three movies. DC/WB doesn't seem to know what to do. They keep announcing random projects that don't go anywhere. The Batman movie has been stuck in development hell for years now, with Affleck rumored to be either in or out of the movie depending on the day of the week.

Now there's some random Joker movie being made with Joaquin Phoenix which exists outside of the main movie continuity. I'm not against a Joker movie per se but this just seems like a weird move to make at this point.

Honestly, there should have been a Man of Steel 2 in the works a long time ago. Cavill is a great Superman and loves playing the role. When he isn't stuck having to be a downer like in Batman v Superman he truly embodies the character. Letting him go after only three movies portraying the character would be a mistake.

I have no problem with a Supergirl movie but not even giving Superman a cameo seems like a mistake.

DC/WB just don't seem to have any clear vision or plan for where to take their movies. At this point I think I'd rather them give up trying to do a big connected universe and just do individual movie series.

I do think the TV side is in better shape. Most of their TV shows are excellent. I am willing to give Titans a try even though that trailer did a lot to turn me off the show.
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#5 Christopher

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 10:15 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 17 September 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Um... it's the timing, and the way that they are doing this that's bothering me.

We don't even know if they are doing it. It's a rumor. The reason they call it rumor is because it isn't fact. Getting angry over a rumor that may turn out to be nonsense is a pointless waste of emotional energy.



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And no - not needing any new Superman (read: Henry Cavill) because Superman was an infant while Supergirl was a teenager, is just... NOT TRUE.

KARA was a teenager when KAL was an infant.  So unless this is a movie set entirely on Krypton, about KARA (who was not Supergirl) then there is no reason at all to say there's no need for Superman.  Because when SUPERGIRL exists, she's on earth, with her OLDER cousin, Kal, aka Superman.  

It's all made up to begin with, so they get to change it if they want. Supergirl's origin has been changed multiple times over the decades. Heck, in the '90s she wasn't even Kara Zor-El or a Kryptonian. It's ridiculous to say they can't change her story again.


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But they are crapping on the character, apparently because of a dispute with the actor, which makes me think they don't give a crap about the character.  I.e., the intellectual property.

I have no idea where you're getting that. You're presuming a cause and effect that there's no basis for presuming.




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And, yes, I guess you could say it's all rumors, but the initial story ran in the Hollywood Reporter, which is generally considered a news source and not just a gossip mill, no?

The Cavill story, maybe. But the "Jordan as Superman" rumor is probably nonsense. And even if a rumor appears in a reputable source, that doesn't make it fact. Reporters can get things wrong. And things change all the time. Decisions are reversed, minds are changed. Nothing's firm until it's in an official press release from the studio, and not always then.



View PostVirgil Vox, on 17 September 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

I am definitely frustrated at DC/WB myself, QT. Every time I think they are getting their stuff together something like this happens.

I'm not that bothered about the movies, since I'm so satisfied with the TV shows (other than Gotham). As a rule, TV is a better place to find smart, well-written, substantive storytelling these days than movies are, so I just don't place as much importance on movies anymore.

That said, I actually thought Justice League worked fairly well aside from the more Snydery bits that were left in, and it seemed the movies were finally on the right track. But since JL bombed and the studio is back to its old "panic and change everything at the first sign of trouble" policy, there's no telling what happens next.
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#6 Virgil Vox

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 04:24 PM

https://www.joblo.co...n-this-november


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Certain upcoming films find us eager to devour every little tidbit, and Matt Reeves' upcoming Batman film is definitely one of them, if only due to the mystery surrounding the project. Will Ben Affleck continue to play Bruce Wayne or will a new actor be stepping into the role? There's still no definate answer to that question, but a small update has arrived in THR's recent rundown of the cinematic mysteries of the new year.

According to THR's Borys Kit, the script for THE BATMAN is "basically in, although Reeves will continue tweaking it and working on it. And I'm hearing the studio wants to start shooting in November." As far as when we might find out who will be leading the film, assuming it's not Ben Affleck, Kit casts a wide net saying "between now and [November 2019]." There you have it.

Thought I'd put this here since this was a thread talking about how DC has mishandled their movie-verse, though I'm sure they are riding high now thanks to Aquaman.

The Batman film as announced right around the time of BvS, I'm pretty sure. It has been stuck in development hell ever since. We still don't even know if Ben Affleck will stay as Batman. I hope he does because I think he makes a good Batman and I would like to see him as the character one more time.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman


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