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Clark to ABC: Fire Limbaugh over McNabb

Elections 2004 Democrats Wesley Clark Limbaugh

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#41 DWF

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 07:55 PM

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#42 Rov Judicata

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 08:39 PM

Zack-- I think the real story with that quote is that it pretty strongly indicates that Clark ignores the consensus of the vast majority of experts in the field.

The question I'd like somebody to ask Clark is this: Do you have faith-based ideas about other fields too? If, for instance, you have a tax plan and the vast majority of economists say it's a terrible idea, will you ignore their advice? Or will we leave that to the current administration?

/Who, me? Bitter?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#43 Drew

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 08:58 PM

Dev F, on Oct 1 2003, 07:35 PM, said:

But that statement is not really comparable to Limbaugh's, which in no way implied that blacks had x or y quality. All Limbaugh suggested is that the media might look at blacks differently because of their racial bias -- hardly an outrageous premise, whether or not it is correct in this particular case.
But, Dev, it's Rush Limbaugh, who all decent Americans are supposed to hate, lest they get pegged as reactionary, right-wing, country-music-loving hicks from the midwest.  :cool:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#44 Banapis

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 09:01 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 2 2003, 01:39 AM, said:

Zack-- I think the real story with that quote is that it pretty strongly indicates that Clark ignores the consensus of the vast majority of experts in the field.

I think the real story with the quote was the emphasis Clark puts on always striving to expand the boundaries of human knowledge.  He doesn't believe that what we know now will forever be the sum total of human knowledge, and has great faith in humanity and our ability to achieve our goals - no matter how breathtaking and ambitious they may appear at first glance.  :cool:

Banapis

#45 MuseZack

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 09:16 PM

Drew, on Oct 2 2003, 01:58 AM, said:

Dev F, on Oct 1 2003, 07:35 PM, said:

But that statement is not really comparable to Limbaugh's, which in no way implied that blacks had x or y quality. All Limbaugh suggested is that the media might look at blacks differently because of their racial bias -- hardly an outrageous premise, whether or not it is correct in this particular case.
But, Dev, it's Rush Limbaugh, who all decent Americans are supposed to hate, lest they get pegged as reactionary, right-wing, country-music-loving hicks from the midwest.  :cool:
Honestly, by this time tomorrow, being pegged as a racist is going to be the least of Rush's problems....

See   www.drudgereport.com
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#46 Rov Judicata

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 09:21 PM

Banapis-- Good point...

Zack-- :eek:. Talk about a bombshell....
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#47 Banapis

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:14 PM

/////BREAKING NEWS/////

Limbaugh just resigned from ESPN.  Karl Ravech read his statement at a break in the Red Sox/A's game.

Banapis

#48 Rov Judicata

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:20 PM

http://msn.espn.go.c...01/1628537.html  <-- Article on what Banapis posted.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#49 MuseZack

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:51 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 2 2003, 01:39 AM, said:

Zack-- I think the real story with that quote is that it pretty strongly indicates that Clark ignores the consensus of the vast majority of experts in the field.

The question I'd like somebody to ask Clark is this: Do you have faith-based ideas about other fields too? If, for instance, you have a tax plan and the vast majority of economists say it's a terrible idea, will you ignore their advice? Or will we leave that to the current administration?

/Who, me? Bitter?
Well, Rov, here's Clark on the current tax plan (from an interview on the invaluable talkingpointsmemo.com)  I think you can rest easy...

No reputable economist stands up and says, "Trickle down economics really works." Because we know the marginal propensity to consume of people who are making $100,000 a year and less is much higher than the marginal propensity to consume of people who are making $350,000 a year and more.

Read the rest of the interview.  http://talkingpoints...ml#1001031244pm

It's good stuff, but makes me think the guy doesn't stand a chance.  He isn't good enough at pretending to be dumb to put the big chunk of America that distrusts book learnin' at ease.


Man, this has turned into three different threads in one, hasn't it?
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#50 GiGi

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:54 PM

Oh MY!!!

I must be careful for what I wish for.  :eek2:

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#51 Dev F

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 01:04 AM

Drew, on Oct 1 2003, 08:58 PM, said:

But, Dev, it's Rush Limbaugh, who all decent Americans are supposed to hate, lest they get pegged as reactionary, right-wing, country-music-loving hicks from the midwest.  :cool:
Hey, I'm no fan of Rush Limbaugh myself. I just wish his opponents would challenge him on the basis of his actual weaknesses as a pundit or a thinker, instead of smearing him with trumped-up charges of racism when the worst he could be considered guilty of in this case is a mischaracterization.

It's the same reason I dislike Michael Moore so intensely, even though I happen to agree with many (though not all) of his left-leaning beliefs. People seem so willing to excuse slippery rhetoric when it's directed at their enemies by their allies. Me, I think it's more important that your allies be decent and honorable than your enemies!

--
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#52 Kevin Street

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 02:11 AM

Dev F, on Oct 2 2003, 12:04 AM, said:

Me, I think it's more important that your allies be decent and honorable than your enemies!
I agree with you completely on that.

#53 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 04:49 AM

:wacko:

Either it's almost 3 in the morning or this thread has taken a turn for the Twilight Zone or....

;)

Quote

After twenty years or so, when he's good and done, I think we'll look back on Barry Bonds as the greatest player ever, even better than Ruth.

And on THAT we agree.

The reason that Rush's statememts were racist was that implication that those who overrated McNabb were doing so because of McNabb's skin color.

It doesn't get a hell of a lot clearer or simpler than that.

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#54 Drew

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 08:21 AM

What I learned from this thread:

Saying that the media overrates you because of your skin color is racist.
Saying that the media underrates you because of your skin color is not racist.

What I also learned: this country will make no further progression on race issues until people start feeling free speak openly and honestly about race issues without fear of reprisals. This kind of thing has a chilling effect on necessary dialogue.

Edited by Drew, 02 October 2003 - 09:03 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#55 Drew

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 08:23 AM

MuseZack, on Oct 1 2003, 11:51 PM, said:

It's good stuff, but makes me think the guy doesn't stand a chance.  He isn't good enough at pretending to be dumb to put the big chunk of America that distrusts book learnin' at ease.
Zack just insulted a "big chunk" of America. Shall we force him to leave the board?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#56 Drew

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 08:30 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 2 2003, 04:49 AM, said:

The reason that Rush's statememts were racist was that implication that those who overrated McNabb were doing so because of McNabb's skin color.

It doesn't get a hell of a lot clearer or simpler than that.

It must be because you were half-asleep when you made your post, but there is nothing inherently racist in that statement.

Would it be racist if Limbaugh had said that the media underrated McNabb because of his skin color?

Edited by Drew, 02 October 2003 - 09:14 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#57 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:18 AM

MuseZack, on Oct 1 2003, 09:51 PM, said:

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 2 2003, 01:39 AM, said:

Zack-- I think the real story with that quote is that it pretty strongly indicates that Clark ignores the consensus of the vast majority of experts in the field.

The question I'd like somebody to ask Clark is this: Do you have faith-based ideas about other fields too? If, for instance, you have a tax plan and the vast majority of economists say it's a terrible idea, will you ignore their advice? Or will we leave that to the current administration?

/Who, me? Bitter?
Well, Rov, here's Clark on the current tax plan (from an interview on the invaluable talkingpointsmemo.com)  I think you can rest easy...

No reputable economist stands up and says, "Trickle down economics really works." Because we know the marginal propensity to consume of people who are making $100,000 a year and less is much higher than the marginal propensity to consume of people who are making $350,000 a year and more.

Read the rest of the interview.  http://talkingpoints...ml#1001031244pm

It's good stuff, but makes me think the guy doesn't stand a chance.  He isn't good enough at pretending to be dumb to put the big chunk of America that distrusts book learnin' at ease.


Man, this has turned into three different threads in one, hasn't it?
Zack, it's an interesting link, thank you. Anybody have anthing that ties in specifically with his feelings on listening to experts? I understand if he ignores them some of the time, I just don't like the idea of it being a habit.

Now, as for this quote:

Quote

It's good stuff, but makes me think the guy doesn't stand a chance. He isn't good enough at pretending to be dumb to put the big chunk of America that distrusts book learnin' at ease.

I think that's a vast oversimplification. I'm going off of instinct here because I haven't seen any polls, but I think most people thought Clinton was a pretty smart guy, and he was hugely popular. Same thing for Regean, at least looking in retrospect. Many of the same people who fear Clark call him a genuis. So, it's clear that there's far more to the story than that.

It's not about intelligence; it's about attitude.

The most recent example I can think of would be Bustamente talking down to everybody else in the debate by constantly telling them that they don't understand, that they don't realize how it works. When he said that to those four other candidates, the implication was that only he could. His polling dropped rather quickly post-debate; by the latest numbers, he may well come in third.

There was also still the same stigma on Al Gore (who also did a terrible job defending himself from unfair complaints).

What a huge chunk of America-- including myself-- resents is being talked down to by politicians. They need us; we don't need them.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#58 Rhea

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:26 AM

^NOT.

Until people like you and I volunteer to help in the governance of this country (and I don't know about you, but I ain't volunteering :p), then we need the politicians every bit as much as they need us.
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#59 Drew

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:29 AM

A "big chunk" of American is okay with being smart. What they're not okay with is the attitude "Hush, child, I know better than you." And that attitude is quite common in Washington (and Hollywood, too, come to think of it).
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#60 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 October 2003 - 09:39 AM

True; I should have been more clear.

Quote

posted by Rhea:

"The politicians who talk down to us need us a lot more than we need them" would have been better. Because politicians are like roaches: You never really run out. I'm no anarchist.

Drew-- Bingo. Oh, and another guy who's hugely popular and perceived as very smart: Dennis Miller. Powell, too.

EDIT: Vis a vis the original quote, I realize now I may agree with it. If we take sixteen ounces from a cow that weighs hundreds of pounds, we still call it a huge steak. While significiant in its own rite, it's a teensy portion of the larger whole. 1% of Americans still qualifies as a huge chunk, just because there's so dang many of us.

However, given that the comment said that it led to Clark's unelectability, I doubt that was the intention....

Edited by John Burke, 02 October 2003 - 10:38 AM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



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